Religious Survey

[therealUT]

Apparently nobody cares about the fate of Jews or Muslims...

 

[Jasongivm6]

I guess the part about Jews and Muslims also believing in heaven and hell...

Who said Jews and Muslims don't believe in Heaven or Hell?

 

[therealUT]

Who said Jews and Muslims don't believe in Heaven or Hell?

What part of Heaven = being a Christian do you not understand?

You, Sir.

 

[Jasongivm6]

Ok you just said if you do not know about Heaven or Hell you willnot go to either


No, I didn't. I said Atheists say that.


are you saying they go to what they believe?

Yes


And if they have been introduced to God and find out about the truth and they still dont believe than their going to Hell.

I didn't say they would go to Hell. I said they would have a hard time getting into Heaven. If you go to church on Sundays just to "be there" and "be seen", and if it's the only day of the week that you pray and go to hear God's word, you might as well be an Atheist.


You also said not all Christians are good people.


I said not all Atheists are bad people and not all Christians are good people.

Yes, that's what I said.

Well thats true in some ways not all people who say they are Christians are good people,



That's what I said


but a real Christian is a good person.

I didn't say he/she wasn't

I didn't say I was a Christian, either.

I'm just pointing out what Christians believe and that there is no such thing as Heaven if you don't believe in God.

 

[Jasongivm6]

You, Sir.

Where?

I can't find it.

Can you help me out?

 

[bravevol]

So you are saying what they believe in is where they will go??????????
You know thats not true God said he is the only God and there are none before him, you cannot believe in Buddah and go to Buddah camp when you die.

 

[Jasongivm6]

So you are saying what they believe in is where they will go??????????



No. That's not what I'm saying.



You know thats not true God said he is the only God and there are none before him


I know

 

[GAVol]

Welcome to my world.

 

[tidwell]

So you are saying what they believe in is where they will go??????????
You know thats not true God said he is the only God and there are none before him, you cannot believe in Buddah and go to Buddah camp when you die.

Here's one of my favorite prayers. I perform it quite often while carousing the Politics Forum.

 

[GAVol]

I feel your pain. :lol:

 

[Jasongivm6]

Here's one of my favorite prayers. I perform it quite often while carousing the Politics Forum.

I like this one. :bow:

 

[therealUT]

So you are saying what they believe in is where they will go??????????
You know thats not true God said he is the only God and there are none before him, you cannot believe in Buddah and go to Buddah camp when you die.

If you are going to throw Buddhists into the discussion, at least use the appropriate terminology. Their goal is to reach an enlightened state, called nirvana (a concept borrowed from Hinduism,) not "Buddah Camp," which you made sound like butter...

Also, Buddhists do not worship a single Buddha. They praise the life of many ancient Buddha's due to the piety displayed during each Buddha's lifetime, and they then try to live as pious of a life as possible.

Again, education leads to virtue and knowledge is power.

 

[smoke_em06]

If you are going to throw Buddhists into the discussion, at least use the appropriate terminology. Their goal is to reach an enlightened state, called nirvana (a concept borrowed from Hinduism,) not "Buddah Camp," which you made sound like butter...

Also, Buddhists do not worship a single Buddha. They praise the life of many ancient Buddha's due to the piety displayed during each Buddha's lifetime, and they then try to live as pious of a life as possible.

Again, education leads to virtue and knowledge is power.

And for some reason you think you have both. :nono:

 

[bravevol]

If you are going to throw Buddhists into the discussion, at least use the appropriate terminology. Their goal is to reach an enlightened state, called nirvana (a concept borrowed from Hinduism,) not "Buddah Camp," which you made sound like butter...

Also, Buddhists do not worship a single Buddha. They praise the life of many ancient Buddha's due to the piety displayed during each Buddha's lifetime, and they then try to live as pious of a life as possible.

Again, education leads to virtue and knowledge is power.

I'll just stick to buddah camp.

 

[GVF]

Amen!!! Its good to see another Catholic around. That is how I was raised, weather it is right or not, who really knows!!!! LOL We will all find out one day!!

Or...we could read and study the new testament scriptures for ourselves, instead of relying on someone else. then we would know what we are doing is right or wrong. Or...we could do nothing. God made us creatures of choice. No sarcasm intended towrd your post. "I just hope I'm doing the right thing" seems to be alot of today's evaluation of living right.

 

[GVF]

Do you have any kind of spiritual beliefs?
Yes. Born and raised New Testament Christian. (Church of Christ). I believe in the bible as it is given and do not prescribe to any man made additions. (Koran, Book of Morman, Catholic Bible, various denominational handbooks, etc). I think we should search for the truth, not ammend the teachings to make beliefs easier for us.

To you, who is Jesus?
Son of God. Is God. Was with God. Gave me salvation. My friend.

Do you think there is a heaven or a hell?
I believe in both, and that both will be justly occupied.

If you died tonight, where would you go?
Heaven. I'm not perfect. There is no ways works can earn your way into heaven. That concept is the one biggest lie religion feeds its sheep. There is nothing you can do to "earn" your way. True religion is faith based. God's GRACE is the only way into heaven. Does that mean I can live how I want because i was baptized in new testament fashion and Jesus' blood keeps me pure? No. But, it does mean I can do my best and Jesus will take care of the rest.

By the way, if what you were believing is not true, would you want to know?
Don't need to know. I know of no earthly being that can impart the knowledge and wisdom of the almighty to the extent that I would question my belief, question God, question the scriptures, and follow the fad of the day. Scientology?! Are you serious. A modern day writer creating a faith that people follow?

Favorite scripture. There are many. "Love your neighbor as yourself." That's a biggie for me, as sometimes it is hard to remember that we were all created in God's image and that no one regardless of their place or statute in life is actually different than me or beneath me.

 

[GVF]

So, if one does not believe in Christ, they go to hell? Guess your preacher forgot to inform his congregation of a little notion called 'faith through works.'

there is no faith through works. The bible explicitly teaches that works alone cannot give salvation. It is through baptism in christ that we receive the holy spirit and GRACE. Works alone does not. Faith alone does not. Faith requires the act of committment. therefore when asked what we must do to be saved, Paul instructed the crowd to repent and be baptized for the remission of your sins and you will be saved. (Book of Acts). The ommssion is when preachers do not teach baptism, as it is clearly taught in the new testament theat baptism is the vehicle of salvation. The other ommission is when we do not read for ourselves the truth. We will be judged on our own accord. Putting off on the preacher in the end that he did not teach you right won't float either.

 

[GVF]

That is a very small way of looking at life. There are many people that walk the earth helping more people than some churches ever do and they will be denied?

Yes. There are a lot of good people that will be denied. Who never accepted salvation. who were never Baptized (immersed) into Christ for remission of sins. Who thought just being a good person was enough. And don't be so foolish to believe that all who enter the doors of churches will be admitted. There will be a lot of false prophets in line B. God forgive for this one, but i haven't seen any TV preachers I'd rely on for guidance.

 

[GVF]

But how can it logically be anything other than arbirtary? If God choose some to election then that, by default, means that everyone who was not called was predestined to damnation. Unless of course, the bible is not to be taken literally. But then, Romans 8, 9, and 10 make no sense whatsoever.

It may not invite Christians to theoretical inquiry, although many do anyway. It does invite a non christian like myself, especially since I feel that I'm going to be tortured for eternity simply because some distant ancestor ate an apple he was told not to eat, and I was part of the unlucky group that didn't get his name drawn.

If you go back and read the Exodus story, there was no need to endure Pharoah with patience. Pharoah, on several occasions, relented and told Moses that he was releasing the children of Israel, after which God would intervene, harden Pharoah's heart, causing him to change his mind, after which God would come back with a greater show of force; Pharoah would again relent, God would again harden his heart. and the cycle kept repeating until it ended with the death of the firstborn, and the Egyptian army being destroyed in the Red Sea.

Perhaps I'm reading more into it than I should, but these are many of the reasons that I quit going to church. Passages like these really bother me.

You are not predestined. Salvation was offered first to the Jews, then the Gentiles. (The rest of us). If we were predestined then the Jews with their rejection of their own as the Son of God wuld still be the only people given salvation. After they rejected Jesus, salvation was opened to all. "Go into all the world..." God made us creatures of choice. that's why i like fries and you like hash browns. you are not predestined to hell. you can actually change that, if you choose. Your choice. Your gamble. In laymens terms, better to have chosen life and been surprized then to have chosen death and been verified.

Also, the Jews were hard headed. They constantly required proof from God. They never had faith. That is why god dealt with them with a stiff hand. they called him out on his power and he showed it to them. there is correllation however to how we will be dealt with in judgment for the way we live. i hope you find your way back. the teaching also convey that it will be worse for those who knoew God and turned way in the day of judgement than for those who never knew God. Hence the notion of varying degrees of heaven and hell.

 

[GVF]

Wrong! Which comes to the next question, what seperates you, a radical Christian who has condemned all non believers to hell, from an Islamic terrorist, a radical Muslim who has condemned all infidels to hell? You are skating on very thin ice.

He's not a radical Christian, and neither am I. But, scripture is scripture. You cannot only believe in part. He was only quoting words of God. He did not condemn all non-believers to hell. God did. Non-believers do have the freewill to become believers.

 

[GVF]

By stating that only those that believe in Jesus will go to heaven, you are in fact saying that the fidelis are better people. At least be honest with yourself on that point.

Also, do you understand that the most likely way not to convert someone to your belief is to tell them that if they do not start believing they will go to hell? It is circular logic. They already do not believe what you do. So, why are they now going to believe that they will go to hell? It is asanine.

Excellent point on teaching. That is where alot of our various religions have gone awry in the past. We implied fear based love for God and not faith based. Now, we should fear him and his power to reject us in judgement, but fear in itself is not "the good news" we are supposed to be taking into the world.

 

[utvolpj]

Yes. There are a lot of good people that will be denied. Who never accepted salvation. who were never Baptized (immersed) into Christ for remission of sins. Who thought just being a good person was enough. And don't be so foolish to believe that all who enter the doors of churches will be admitted. There will be a lot of false prophets in line B. God forgive for this one, but i haven't seen any TV preachers I'd rely on for guidance.

So anyone who is never exposed to the teachings of Christ goes to hell? Nice religion you got there. God made them only to be damned.

I also believe that many, many leaders of the church are going to the hot place. It can be a great org. but is also the most hypocritical anywhere.

 

[MyBloodRunnethOrange]

You are not predestined. Salvation was offered first to the Jews, then the Gentiles. (The rest of us). If we were predestined then the Jews with their rejection of their own as the Son of God wuld still be the only people given salvation. After they rejected Jesus, salvation was opened to all. "Go into all the world..." God made us creatures of choice. that's why i like fries and you like hash browns. you are not predestined to hell. you can actually change that, if you choose. Your choice. Your gamble. In laymens terms, better to have chosen life and been surprized then to have chosen death and been verified.

Also, the Jews were hard headed. They constantly required proof from God. They never had faith. That is why god dealt with them with a stiff hand. they called him out on his power and he showed it to them. there is correllation however to how we will be dealt with in judgment for the way we live. i hope you find your way back. the teaching also convey that it will be worse for those who knoew God and turned way in the day of judgement than for those who never knew God. Hence the notion of varying degrees of heaven and hell.

Are you a Bible literalist GVF? I am guessing from your posts that you are. If so, how would you interpret Romans 8, 9, and 10? I don't see how a literalist could interpret it any other way than predestination.

 

[GVF]

So anyone who is never exposed to the teachings of Christ goes to hell? Nice religion you got there. God made them only to be damned.

It is alos to us to expose people. I'm not the judge. But, what I have read suggests various levels of reward or punishment. How does that really apply to a "undiscovered civilization" that had no access to modern printings? Hard to say. But, they are of the lineage of the many that were dispersed from the Tower of Babaal. So, there is an inherent aknowledgement of the higher power in most every society of history.

I also believe that many, many leaders of the church are going to the hot place. It can be a great org. but is also the most hypocritical anywhere.

Not arguing that, and you are most correct. Religion is very corrupt in alot of places. Thank God I don't have to answer for their wrong as well as mine. But, in the same light, I am not excused from my life of faith because of someone else's actions. I will be held accountable on my own accord. I can't tell God I chose not to believe because the christian familt next door discouraged me. God judges each based on his life.

 

[utvolpj]

Not arguing that, and you are most correct. Religion is very corrupt in alot of places. Thank God I don't have to answer for their wrong as well as mine. But, in the same light, I am not excused from my life of faith because of someone else's actions. I will be held accountable on my own accord. I can't tell God I chose not to believe because the christian familt next door discouraged me. God judges each based on his life.

But you said God judges on his life and belief. My question is still- if never exposed to the teaching of Christ, will one go to hell? Are there people put on this earth who, although good people, are predetermined to spend eternity in hell?