Rep. Giffords of Arizona shot

#151
#151
hohenfelsvol said:
Funny how you still draw an indirect connection to the TP when there is none. If anything I'd call this guy a liberal crack pot.
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Its not a question of whether he is liberal or conservative. Its that the TP, particularly in Arizona, has made it acceptable if not fashionable to effect change through threats.
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#152
#152
sjt18 said:
You mean like the left wingers constantly tying everything to race? You mean like the leftwingers who constantly tell the poor that they are "entitled" to the wealth of the rich? You mean like the left wingers who are convincing people that humans are destroying the planet? You mean like leftists who sympathize with the unfounded complaints of Muslims and thus encourage radical Islamists to take more violent action since they are being heard?
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If you don't believe people aren't destroying the planet, you haven't been watching.

Or you haven't been taking your meds.

Sixth Great Extinction; the alteration of 90% of the land surface; the THIRD great geo-engineering experiment on the atmosphere currently ongoing (fortunately, the first two were stopped in time)....

If a Sixth Great Extinction event isn't destroying the planet, I'm not sure where your threshhold lies.
 
#153
#153
lawgator1 said:
Its not a question of whether he is liberal or conservative. Its that the TP, particularly in Arizona, has made it acceptable if not fashionable to effect change through threats.
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No they haven't. They are no more or less vitriolic than any other political movement.

If you see the ramblings this guy has posted on the internet, it's pretty clear that there's no political motive other than that of a mentally unstable nut.
 
#154
#154
hohenfelsvol said:
Funny how you still draw an indirect connection to the TP when there is none. If anything I'd call this guy a liberal crack pot.
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Funny how the Pima County Sheriff put the blame squarely on "vitriol." Also said it was so common for public officials like Giffords and himself to receive threats his offices simply can't act on all of them.

Moreover, the good Sheriff put "ungovernable" right out on the floor saying there would come a time when good people would never take on these roles.

To miss the connections is simply to be ruled despotically by ideology.
 
#155
#155
GAVol said:
No they haven't. They are no more or less vitriolic than any other political movement.

If you see the ramblings this guy has posted on the internet, it's pretty clear that there's no political motive other than that of a mentally unstable nut.
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Why would the sheriff in charge state "Arizona is the Mecca of bigotry and hatred???"

Study the real world. Learn history. Make the connections.
 
#156
#156
utgibbs said:
Why would the sheriff in charge state "Arizona is the Mecca of bigotry and hatred???"

Study the real world. Learn history. Make the connections.
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We hear the same stuff every time one of these anti-social whackjobs goes off the deep end. Sometimes it's a misinterpreted political message. Sometimes it's wanting to impress Jodie Foster. I get what you're trying to say, but sometimes people are just nuts.
 
#158
#158
GAVol said:
We hear the same stuff every time one of these anti-social whackjobs goes off the deep end.
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Funny we have so many anti-social whackjobs....

We have not heard such vitriol in Arizona since George Wallace was the governor of Alabama.

Learn history. Study the real world. Rewatch Bowling for Columbine. Make the connections.
 
#159
#159
utgibbs said:
Funny how the Pima County Sheriff put the blame squarely on "vitriol." Also said it was so common for public officials like Giffords and himself to receive threats his offices simply can't act on all of them.

Moreover, the good Sheriff put "ungovernable" right out on the floor saying there would come a time when good people would never take on these roles.

To miss the connections is simply to be ruled despotically by ideology.
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Got nothing out of this post. Kind of hard to follow.
 
#160
#160
utgibbs said:
Funny how the Pima County Sheriff put the blame squarely on "vitriol." Also said it was so common for public officials like Giffords and himself to receive threats his offices simply can't act on all of them.

Moreover, the good Sheriff put "ungovernable" right out on the floor saying there would come a time when good people would never take on these roles.

To miss the connections is simply to be ruled despotically by ideology.
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One opinion from a Liberal Democratic Sheriff means everything I guess.

Dupnik has also refused to uphold the law, by not enforcing the AZ immigration law
 
#161
#161
lawgator1 said:
Its not a question of whether he is liberal or conservative. Its that the TP, particularly in Arizona, has made it acceptable if not fashionable to effect change through threats.
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What was the TP’s role with Timothy McVeigh? Anti-Government nuts have existed long before the TP.
 
#163
#163
lawgator1 said:
Its not a question of whether he is liberal or conservative. Its that the TP, particularly in Arizona, has made it acceptable if not fashionable to effect change through threats.
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Obama, Reid, and Pelosi, by their actions, share the same guilt as the TP; which is none. Nobody is guilty for the actions of a nut but the nut.
 
#164
#164
lawgator1 said:
Its not a question of whether he is liberal or conservative. Its that the TP, particularly in Arizona, has made it acceptable if not fashionable to effect change through threats.
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So by preaching that we should have a smaller Federal Government and keeping the Constitution intact. Cut Federal spending and hold Congressman responsible for not voting the wishes of their constituents is somehow a subliminal message to go out and shoot down Congressman.


How is this nothing but the way America was intended to be? If anyone is to blame, it is the people who live off the Big Government machine in Washington.
 
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#166
#166
VolDad said:
Obama, Reid, and Pelosi, by their actions, share the same guilt as the TP; which is none. Nobody is guilty for the actions of a nut but the nut.
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:good!: Looking for political meaning or assigning blame in something like yesterday or Va Tech, Columbine etc is a useless exercise where everybody reaches the conclusion that they want to reach.
 
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#167
#167
lawgator1 said:
Its not a question of whether he is liberal or conservative. Its that the TP, particularly in Arizona, has made it acceptable if not fashionable to effect change through threats.
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That I agree with but your previous post had a different tone.
 
#168
#168
hohenfelsvol said:
That I agree with but your previous post had a different tone.
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Didn't mean to make this about politics in the dem vs gop sense of the word. I think that's a mistake (especially because from what I hear this guy is all over the map).

Rather, its a question of how we voice our disctonent. I think it is perfeclty fine to go stand on the top of the nearest hill and shout that the deficit is out of control, that mandated health insurance purchase, etc, are terrible policy. But in the last few years it has become ok to suggest, hint, imply, and insinuate that violence is a valid means of expressing discontent. That's a problem, imo. And I'd like to see some folks take ownership of that and maybe ratchet things down a little.

And that's regardless of their politics.
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#169
#169
lawgator1 said:
Didn't mean to make this about politics in the dem vs gop sense of the word. I think that's a mistake (especially because from what I hear this guy is all over the map).

Rather, its a question of how we voice our disctonent. I think it is perfeclty fine to go stand on the top of the nearest hill and shout that the deficit is out of control, that mandated health insurance purchase, etc, are terrible policy. But in the last few years it has become ok to suggest, hint, imply, and insinuate that violence is a valid means of expressing discontent. That's a problem, imo. And I'd like to see some folks take ownership of that and maybe ratchet things down a little.

And that's regardless of their politics.
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Good Post
 
#170
#170
lawgator1 said:
Didn't mean to make this about politics in the dem vs gop sense of the word. I think that's a mistake (especially because from what I hear this guy is all over the map).

Rather, its a question of how we voice our disctonent. I think it is perfeclty fine to go stand on the top of the nearest hill and shout that the deficit is out of control, that mandated health insurance purchase, etc, are terrible policy. But in the last few years it has become ok to suggest, hint, imply, and insinuate that violence is a valid means of expressing discontent. That's a problem, imo. And I'd like to see some folks take ownership of that and maybe ratchet things down a little.

And that's regardless of their politics.
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I don't think anybody would argue with your general point, But do you really think it's gotten worse lately though?
 
#171
#171
GAVol said:
I don't think anybody would argue with your general point, But do you really think it's gotten worse lately though?
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Much.

I deal with law enforcement cases for a living, and these sheriffs know a lot about what is going on behind the scenes in situations like this. That sheriffs comment about vitriol, particularly in Arizona, is a man speaking out of frustration and a deep sense of worry at what is going on out there.

A lot of things are to blame. The economy has everyone's nerves on edge, people are exasperated, tired, fearful. We have huge policy problems in this country, profound issues face us about everything from immigration to terrorism to how we just get around in the world.

It only takes a nutball or two to do things like this and I wish we would speak to those people with some sense of reassurance rather than always screeching that the end is near.

Might the guy have done it, anyway? Maybe. I don't know. But if he is taking to youtbue to do anti-government rants ....
 
#172
#172
GAVol said:
I don't think anybody would argue with your general point, But do you really think it's gotten worse lately though?
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Overall the tone is not good but it is not a one-sided event. Both (all) sides are speaking past the views the other and suggesting extreme solutions. Laying this at the feet of one side is by it's very nature part of the problem.

That's why I find the Krugman reaction so odd yet typical. It is definitely a call to arms against people holding a particular viewpoint (TP). It is not a thoughtful argument against particular policy prescriptions; it is a wholesale dismissing of them by suggesting those who hold the views are DANGEROUS.

Takes two to tango as the old saying goes.
 
#173
#173
lawgator1 said:
.... But in the last few years it has become ok to suggest, hint, imply, and insinuate that violence is a valid means of expressing discontent. That's a problem, imo. And I'd like to see some folks take ownership of that and maybe ratchet things down a little....
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Everything I heard suggested that a certain event on November 2nd was a means of expressing discontent.

You want to see folks take ownership. Ownership of what?

You did not answer my question. How did the TP influence Timothy McVeigh?
 
#174
#174
Then why do liberal havens such as the NY slime and the daily kos try to politicize such tragedies?

“As I knew him he was left wing, quite liberal. & oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy,” the former classmate, Caitie Parker, wrote in a series of Twitter feeds Saturday.

He had started to act oddly during his classes at Pima Community College, causing unease among other students.

That behavior, along with a disturbing video, prompted school administrators to call in Mr. Loughner’s parents and tell them that their son had been suspended and would have to get a mental health evaluation to return to college. Instead, he dropped out in October, a spokesman for the college said.
 
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