Rep. Giffords of Arizona shot

#176
#176
LG, your mischaracterization of the TP is FAR more indicative of inciting people than their real acts promoting the acceptance of violence.

If what you are saying is true then it should be easy to document. However no political movement in the last 100 years has received more hostile scrutiny than the TP... and the MSM has yet to come up with proof for their accusations. The TP and their sympathizers amount to 60-100 million ordinary Americans who care about their country and freedom. Yet people like you demonize them and try to attach them to anyone or anything that you think might soil their image.

Shame on you hypocrite.

I find it amazing the verbal gymnastics used by the left in knee jerk action to separate muslim terrorists from Muslims as a whole... when they are so quick to assume that things like this were caused by American conservatives or Christians.

Nero would be proud of you all.
 
#177
#177
sjt18 said:
LG, your mischaracterization of the TP is FAR more indicative of inciting people than their real acts promoting the acceptance of violence.

If what you are saying is true then it should be easy to document. However no political movement in the last 100 years has received more hostile scrutiny than the TP... and the MSM has yet to come up with proof for their accusations. The TP and their sympathizers amount to 60-100 million ordinary Americans who care about their country and freedom. Yet people like you demonize them and try to attach them to anyone or anything that you think might soil their image.

Shame on you hypocrite.

I find it amazing the verbal gymnastics used by the left in knee jerk action to separate muslim terrorists from Muslims as a whole... when they are so quick to assume that things like this were caused by American conservatives or Christians.

Nero would be proud of you all.
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Its not the whole TP. And its not their views (although I disagree with some of them).

Its the irresponsible method by which some of their leadership motivate people that is an issue.

Even if they are right, and even if your distracting (shock) argument about Muslims were correct, that does not change the fact that some of the TP leadership trades on fear and worry, and winds it up.

November was a productive outcome for the TP and its arguments. But in its wake, there has been (and continues to be) some serious unintended consequences that the TP leadership ought to just think about as it moves forward.
 
#178
#178
I'll add that the first thing Boehner did after this was to postpone the health care law repeal. He knew that if they had gone forward, with all of the people holding up placards about socialism, and ranting about Obama, and screaming out in session that Obama is not a citizen, and all of the other nonsense that they would forever be associated with yesterday's tragedy.

Now why do you think that is?
 
#179
#179
who could have guessed LG would try and tie this to the TP/GOP? I'm shocked
 
#180
#180
VolDad said:
How did the TP influence Timothy McVeigh?
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The main influences on McVeigh were the muslim brotherhood and Terry Nichols who learned his bomb making skills from an al-qaeda splinter group in the Philippines.
 
#181
#181
lawgator1 said:
Didn't mean to make this about politics in the dem vs gop sense of the word. I think that's a mistake (especially because from what I hear this guy is all over the map).

Rather, its a question of how we voice our disctonent. I think it is perfeclty fine to go stand on the top of the nearest hill and shout that the deficit is out of control, that mandated health insurance purchase, etc, are terrible policy. But in the last few years it has become ok to suggest, hint, imply, and insinuate that violence is a valid means of expressing discontent. That's a problem, imo. And I'd like to see some folks take ownership of that and maybe ratchet things down a little.

And that's regardless of their politics.
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Wow, I agree with a gator. Tone and rhetoric have implications. Both sides are guilty of lack of candor IMO. We have rightist AND leftist media carrying the water of vitriolic speech for the politicians who, in too many cases, encourage such. America has a history of creating positive outcomes from negative events. Hopefully we do the same within our government AND within ourselves. Speak your views, but leave the hyperbolic namecalling/vitriol/inflamitory speech out of it. We should be above this as the world's leader in democracy. Here's to hoping for vigorous and robust debate minus all the spiteful and discontented voices.
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#182
#182
lawgator1 said:
I'll add that the first thing Boehner did after this was to postpone the health care law repeal. He knew that if they had gone forward, with all of the people holding up placards about socialism, and ranting about Obama, and screaming out in session that Obama is not a citizen, and all of the other nonsense that they would forever be associated with yesterday's tragedy.

Now why do you think that is?
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Because of people like you that want to tie them together.
 
#183
#183
#184
#184
Leave it to volnation to make a tragedy into a partisan blame-fest.

And it's pretty dumb to say utgibbs or LG is being unreasonable in assigning blame, and then pointing to Pelosi/ daily kos, etc. Kind of speaking out of both sides of your mouth, guys.
 
#187
#187
VOLnVEGAS said:
Has anyone heard any new information this morning?
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Nothing other than Giffords is managing to communicate somehow with her Doctors . . . which I find completely amazing less than 24 hours after a bullet has passed through her brain.
 
#189
#189
IPorange said:
Leave it to volnation to make a tragedy into a partisan blame-fest.

And it's pretty dumb to say utgibbs or LG is being unreasonable in assigning blame, and then pointing to Pelosi/ daily kos, etc. Kind of speaking out of both sides of your mouth, guys.
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Doubly funny since I blamed everyone within the dominant culture.

Ask not for whom the bell tolls - it tolls for thee (and me).
 
#190
#190
GAVol said:
Nothing other than Giffords is managing to communicate somehow with her Doctors . . . which I find completely amazing less than 24 hours after a bullet has passed through her brain.
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Totally amazing.
I heard that it was Dallas Green's granddaughter that was the nine year old girl. Just awful.
 
#192
#192
utgibbs said:
Doubly funny since I blamed everyone within the dominant culture.

Ask not for whom the bell tolls - it tolls for thee (and me).
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I'm not trying to be contentious here . . . but I have no idea what you are talking about.
 
#193
#193
VOLnVEGAS said:
Totally amazing.
I heard that it was Dallas Green's granddaughter that was the nine year old girl. Just awful.
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I heard an interview last night that Shepherd Smith did with one of the few at the gathering that wasn't hit because he went to the ground and played dead. It was unbelievable as he described the guy shooting Giffords and then calmly emptying the chamber into the crowd.
 
#194
#194
IPorange said:
Leave it to volnation to make a tragedy into a partisan blame-fest.

And it's pretty dumb to say utgibbs or LG is being unreasonable in assigning blame, and then pointing to Pelosi/ daily kos, etc. Kind of speaking out of both sides of your mouth, guys.
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the only person responsible is the shooter, I was just providing a counterpoint to LG's usual sock puppetry and his constantly blaming the tea party movement in general and "the right wing" specifically for every act of violence that occurs.
 
#195
#195
GAVol said:
I'm not trying to be contentious here . . . but I have no idea what you are talking about.
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'No Man is an Island' - John Donne

Meditation 17 from John Donne.

Specifically, the bell is tolling announcing a death, and Donne's point is we are all bound together; the bell might as well be tolling for you or me. We are all part of this project called Humankind - we all share in its glories and, sadly, especially in a time like this, its afflictions.
 
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#196
#196
MG1968 said:
the only person responsible is the shooter, I was just providing a counterpoint to LG's usual sock puppetry and his constantly blaming the tea party movement in general and "the right wing" specifically for every act of violence that occurs.
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No political philosophy is devoid of fruits and nuts, unfortunately.
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#197
#197
Its not a question of his philosophy, or what political party he is most attuned with. Its a question of people being willing to accept prominent politicians and spokespeople for political movements refer to threats and violence as solutions in ways that are so thinly veiled everyone knows what they mean.

And then to watch them say these things on tv, and get cheers from a crowd or book deals or speaking tours.

Its depressing.
 
#198
#198
JayVols said:
No political philosophy is devoid of fruits and nuts, unfortunately.
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I may be wrong, and, in fact, this thread has certainly piqued my curiosity enough to delve far deeper into the phenomenom - but a lot of the "whacked-out nutjob" attacks, killings, of the past couple of years certainly seem to have a consistent political leaning.

The Far Right may not want to claim them, but they are certainly of Deep Reactionary bent.

There does not seem to be a Che in the whole bunch. These guys aren't about to join forces with Castro. They are from the opposite end of the political spectrum.
 
#199
#199
utgibbs said:
I may be wrong, and, in fact, this thread has certainly piqued my curiosity enough to delve far deeper into the phenomenom - but a lot of the "whacked-out nutjob" attacks, killings, of the past couple of years certainly seem to have a consistent political leaning.

The Far Right may not want to claim them, but they are certainly of Deep Reactionary bent.

There does not seem to be a Che in the whole bunch. These guys aren't about to join forces with Castro. They are from the opposite end of the political spectrum.
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the guy who flew his plane into that IRS building was a confirmed left wing wacko.

Nidal Hasan was an Islamic fascist.

and so on.
 
#200
#200
utgibbs said:
I may be wrong, and, in fact, this thread has certainly piqued my curiosity enough to delve far deeper into the phenomenom - but a lot of the "whacked-out nutjob" attacks, killings, of the past couple of years certainly seem to have a consistent political leaning.

The Far Right may not want to claim them, but they are certainly of Deep Reactionary bent.

There does not seem to be a Che in the whole bunch. These guys aren't about to join forces with Castro. They are from the opposite end of the political spectrum.
Click to expand...

Just stop.
 
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