Richmond is taking down Confederate statues: Is this the end for other Confederate memorials?

[Weezer]

The north invaded the south? What history books you reading? Take them and throw them in the trash.
Slavery was the main reason, like it or not.

Yes, the North invaded the South. If you don't know that I question if you've even read a history book.

States joined the Union voluntarily. It was not forced. Under those conditions the Southern states decided they had the right to leave the Union. So they decided to form their own country. People ignore that from the founding of our country until the Civil War, state sovereignty was a big issue. Lincoln took the unprecedented step of forcing states to remain within a Union that up until that point was voluntary.

FTR, you can be anti-slavery and still recognize the truth of history. And the truth is though slavery may have been the driving issue, a state's right to self govern goes hand in hand with that. Southern states believed federal government had no right to tell them they couldn't practice slavery. Lincoln himself actually felt the same. That's a huge part of why the Emancipation Proclamation excluded states that had remained in the Union. The EP was not about freeing slaves. Congress was who ultimately decided that they could indeed put an end to slavery(after the war) and came up with the Thirteenth Amendment.

And Lincoln firmly believed that blacks were an inferior race. The majority of whites at the time believed that way. But history glosses over that because it's an ugly truth they'd rather you not know. But if you actually read history books, you find these things out.

 

[1972 Grad]

One of the Confederates struck back tonight in Portsmouth Virginia. The thud heard 'round the world. It seems that some protester got his skull busted by a Confederate statue that his buds toppled. The report said that his skull was actually visible after the injury. Too bad. Do stupid things, you win stupid prizes.

 

[1972 Grad]

Yes, the North invaded the South. If you don't know that I question if you've even read a history book.

States joined the Union voluntarily. It was not forced. Under those conditions the Southern states decided they had the right to leave the Union. So they decided to form their own country. People ignore that from the founding of our country until the Civil War, state sovereignty was a big issue. Lincoln took the unprecedented step of forcing states to remain within a Union that up until that point was voluntary.

FTR, you can be anti-slavery and still recognize the truth of history. And the truth is though slavery may have been the driving issue, a state's right to self govern goes hand in hand with that. Southern states believed federal government had no right to tell them they couldn't practice slavery. Lincoln himself actually felt the same. That's a huge part of why the Emancipation Proclamation excluded states that had remained in the Union. The EP was not about freeing slaves. Congress was who ultimately decided that they could indeed put an end to slavery(after the war) and came up with the Thirteenth Amendment.

And Lincoln firmly believed that blacks were an inferior race. The majority of whites at the time believed that way. But history glosses over that because it's an ugly truth they'd rather you not know. But if you actually read history books, you find these things out.

He reads revisionist history.

 

[titansvolsfaninga]

Yes, the North invaded the South. If you don't know that I question if you've even read a history book.

States joined the Union voluntarily. It was not forced. Under those conditions the Southern states decided they had the right to leave the Union. So they decided to form their own country. People ignore that from the founding of our country until the Civil War, state sovereignty was a big issue. Lincoln took the unprecedented step of forcing states to remain within a Union that up until that point was voluntary.

FTR, you can be anti-slavery and still recognize the truth of history. And the truth is though slavery may have been the driving issue, a state's right to self govern goes hand in hand with that. Southern states believed federal government had no right to tell them they couldn't practice slavery. Lincoln himself actually felt the same. That's a huge part of why the Emancipation Proclamation excluded states that had remained in the Union. The EP was not about freeing slaves. Congress was who ultimately decided that they could indeed put an end to slavery(after the war) and came up with the Thirteenth Amendment.

And Lincoln firmly believed that blacks were an inferior race. The majority of whites at the time believed that way. But history glosses over that because it's an ugly truth they'd rather you not know. But if you actually read history books, you find these things out.

Union Troops were at Ft. Sumter. That's not invading. Confederate troops fired on them.

 

[1972 Grad]

Union Troops were at Ft. Sumter. That's not invading. Confederate troops fired on them.

They were still occupying South Carolina which had seceded almost 4 months prior.

 

[Weezer]

Union Troops were at Ft. Sumter. That's not invading. Confederate troops fired on them.

There's actually a lot more to that story. But the war began in earnest when Lincoln sent troop into the South. The Confederacy had declared themselves a sovereign nation and saw that as an invasion. So yes, the North invaded the South. Not sure why you see that as an outrageous statement, because it's true.

 

[Vol737]

Reads like a drunk VN post in the football forum.

Guilty!

 

[FLVOL_79]

One of the Confederates struck back tonight in Portsmouth Virginia. The thud heard 'round the world. It seems that some protester got his skull busted by a Confederate statue that his buds toppled. The report said that his skull was actually visible after the injury. Too bad. Do stupid things, you win stupid prizes.

If you want the video you can see his skull pretty much explode. Luckily there wasn't much up there to begin with so he'll be back to normal soon.

 

[Rickyvol77]

Wrong, it was just a coincidence that the states that left the Union were slave states.

Except in several states including tennessee, slavery was on the downward trajectory and most people didn’t want to leave the Union but when the union army started invading states, they seceded because they believed that states had a right to secede, no matter WHAT the reason

 

[zeppelin128]

Except in several states including tennessee, slavery was on the downward trajectory and most people didn’t want to leave the Union but when the union army started invading states, they seceded because they believed that states had a right to secede, no matter WHAT the reason

Lol right

 

[zeppelin128]

It was just a coincidence that those states supported slavery, guys. Nothing to see here.

 

[Velo Vol]

They were fighting for the rich slave owners. Same thing that is going on today. The poor whites are fighting for the rich. Poor people have more in common, but if you give them someone to hate....eureka.
You're being disingenuous stating that slavery was not the cause. You can try and rewrite history, romanticize all you want. The south was fighting to keep people as property.

Correct. I'll add that among those who didn't own slaves, many of them aspired to one day be rich enough to do so.

Secondly, there was a fear among many in the South about what would happen to their society if the slaves were ever freed.

 

[Velo Vol]

 

[Rickyvol77]

Lol right

Slavery wasn’t the only reason states seceded. If you believe that 100% of Confederate soldiers were fighting just for slavery, well you might want to read what they actually have stated

 

[Rickyvol77]

It was just a coincidence that those states supported slavery, guys. Nothing to see here.

No one said slavery wasn’t one of the main causes of the war, it just wasn’t the only cause

 

[Velo Vol]

 

[AirVol]

It was just a coincidence that those states supported slavery, guys. Nothing to see here.

You would to if you had 200 acres of cotton to pick.

 

[DynaLo]

My mother was the youngest of seven who survived (two died before they turned 3, and that was in the early 20s). My dad also had a brother who died very young (about a year old). They are in their 80s now. We like to assume that we can "know" about population, but a lot of the time when you go back far enough a birth or marriage record is in a family Bible and folks might have lied to census takers. I look at old census records sometimes and it's a struggle just to read the handwriting on there. It's interesting.

Once you understand how they formed specific letters, or combo letters together like ss or ll it gets much easier to read the census records. Census takers were usually the more educated folks in the area or they were high ranking military personnel. The issue gets difficult when a person doesn’t know exactly how to spell their own name, the census taker has difficulty understanding the person, accents and things, and then just spells it how they think it should be spelled.

I spent time studying our FF handwritten documents to learn the various lettering styles of the period since we know exactly what those documents say. It made a world of difference in reading census records.

 

[Velo Vol]

Once you understand how they formed specific letters, or combo letters together like ss or ll it gets much easier to read the census records.

It's still handwriting, though.

 

[Purple Tiger]

One of the Confederates struck back tonight in Portsmouth Virginia. The thud heard 'round the world. It seems that some protester got his skull busted by a Confederate statue that his buds toppled. The report said that his skull was actually visible after the injury. Too bad. Do stupid things, you win stupid prizes.

Did it make you happy to see that protester get injured?

 

[GordonC]

Did it make you happy to see that vandal get injured?

Fixed

 

[evillawyer]

 

[zeppelin128]

Once you understand how they formed specific letters, or combo letters together like ss or ll it gets much easier to read the census records. Census takers were usually the more educated folks in the area or they were high ranking military personnel. The issue gets difficult when a person doesn’t know exactly how to spell their own name, the census taker has difficulty understanding the person, accents and things, and then just spells it how they think it should be spelled.

I spent time studying our FF handwritten documents to learn the various lettering styles of the period since we know exactly what those documents say. It made a world of difference in reading census records.

Not related to the thread, but I had to decipher the same when I was doing my family genealogy. After reading it for a bit you get the feel for it.

 

[hog88]

Did it make you happy to see that protester get injured?

You mean vandal, right?

Yeah it’s pretty funny when a criminal gets hurt while committing a crime.

 

[titansvolsfaninga]

There's actually a lot more to that story. But the war began in earnest when Lincoln sent troop into the South. The Confederacy had declared themselves a sovereign nation and saw that as an invasion. So yes, the North invaded the South. Not sure why you see that as an outrageous statement, because it's true.

It doesn't work like that. The south can not just declare themself a sovereign nation because they want to hold on to slaves. They were still a part of the United States. So Lincoln sent troops into part of the United States. The confederate troops fired on the union troops on US soil. Romanticize all you want, the Confederate troops fired on Union troops which started the war.