Rick Barnes discussion (merged)

[volbound1700]

a/

Recruiting and player development is a direct function of coaching (or lack thereof.) Am I misunderstand?

Recruiting and player development is a direct function of coaching (or lack thereof.) Am I misunderstanding?

Yes and even the best coaches sometimes struggle. Even Bill Shelf, Mike Krzyzewski, Roy Williams, and John Calipari have had recruiting classes and teams that fell flat of expectations.

 

[vols35]

a/



Yes and even the best coaches sometimes struggle. Even Bill Shelf, Mike Krzyzewski, Roy Williams, and John Calipari have had recruiting classes and teams that fell flat of expectations.

Unlike Barnes, these coaches are proven champions. Not a good comparison. When the day comes that Barnes wins a major tournament and brings us a championship, then I will agree that he deserves his exorbitant salary and some patience when he doesn't deliver. As it stands, he's forever the bridesmaid and never the bride, never having won the NCAA for any program let alone a consistent record of deep tournament runs. To be among the highest paid coaches in the game, we deserve more.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

a/



Yes and even the best coaches sometimes struggle. Even Bill Shelf, Mike Krzyzewski, Roy Williams, and John Calipari have had recruiting classes and teams that fell flat of expectations.

Spelt Calipari and K correctly (impressive), but couldn’t get Self right.

 

[Voltime123]

I'm not saying we should fire Barnes and I'm certainly not suggesting who should replace him. It is my opinion that Barnes is overpaid, overrated, and will never win a major tournament for us. Tennessee is a great opportunity for coaching success with deep pockets and a large, involved fan base. If Barnes ever were to leave, I feel confident we could replace him with high caliber talent.

Tennessee has such a rich history of national titles in basketball and making the tournament every year…

 

[vols35]

Tennessee has such a rich history of national titles in basketball and making the tournament every year…

With the right coach we will.

 

[Voltime123]

With the right coach we will.

I need names of said coaches?

 

[vols35]

I need names of said coaches?

I don't know who that would be, and never claimed I did, but I feel confident that I know who it won't be.

 

[Vol737]

Making the Sweet 16 means only 8 teams out of 350 had more success in the NCAAT.

True, and I like that perspective. For me, oh man, get me to a Sweet 16 once in a while because at that point all bets are off. You’re playing the best teams in college basketball and you’ve got a shot. That’s all anyone can ask for, IMO, and I’m one of those that’s fine with just getting to the tourney. I get frustrated watching the sloppy play and repeat mistakes, but this talk of canning Barnes is just silly.

 

[Voltime123]

I don't know who that would be, and never claimed I did, but I feel confident that I know who it won't be.

Lol so let me get this straight? You want to get rid of a coach that consistently get our teams into the tournament from a program that doesn’t have any sustained success or a rich history of making the tourney year in and year out because you think we can do better…what in our history suggests we can do better? The fact you have no idea of any possible replacements makes it seem like you have no idea what you are talking about…why should anybody take your opinion seriously?

 

[SGMVols]

True, and I like that perspective. For me, oh man, get me to a Sweet 16 once in a while because at that point all bets are off. You’re playing the best teams in college basketball and you’ve got a shot. That’s all anyone can ask for, IMO, and I’m one of those that’s fine with just getting to the tourney. I get frustrated watching the sloppy play and repeat mistakes, but this talk of canning Barnes is just silly.

If Josh Heupel gets UT football to the top 5% of D-1, he’ll get a massive payday.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

True, and I like that perspective. For me, oh man, get me to a Sweet 16 once in a while because at that point all bets are off. You’re playing the best teams in college basketball and you’ve got a shot. That’s all anyone can ask for, IMO, and I’m one of those that’s fine with just getting to the tourney. I get frustrated watching the sloppy play and repeat mistakes, but this talk of canning Barnes is just silly.

TN has been to 23 NCAATs and only 8x Sweet 16s ever. Getting invited 4 out of 5 years with a S16 or two are great steps toward climbing into New Blood status. You need to be a regular in the S16 to break through to the higher levels.

TN is historically around a top 35-40 program. Living in the top 25 is a good place to be. That’s where TN was before the 25-30 year drought spanning late Devoe through Buzz.

 

[SlyStone]

Tennessee has such a rich history of national titles in basketball and making the tournament every year…

Yes the late great Pat Summitt had great teams.

 

[vols35]

Lol so let me get this straight? You want to get rid of a coach that consistently get our teams into the tournament from a program that doesn’t have any sustained success or a rich history of making the tourney year in and year out because you think we can do better…what in our history suggests we can do better? The fact you have no idea of any possible replacements makes it seem like you have no idea what you are talking about…why should anybody take your opinion seriously?

I'm now realizing that memory and reading comprehension are apparently not one of your strengths, so I will take the liberty of quoting my reply to you from the previous page of this thread. You know, from earlier today......

I'm not saying we should fire Barnes and I'm certainly not suggesting who should replace him. It is my opinion that Barnes is overpaid, overrated, and will never win a major tournament for us. Tennessee is a great opportunity for coaching success with deep pockets and a large, involved fan base. If Barnes ever were to leave, I feel confident we could replace him with high caliber talent.

 

[southgatevol]

Lol so let me get this straight? You want to get rid of a coach that consistently get our teams into the tournament from a program that doesn’t have any sustained success or a rich history of making the tourney year in and year out because you think we can do better…what in our history suggests we can do better? The fact you have no idea of any possible replacements makes it seem like you have no idea what you are talking about…why should anybody take your opinion seriously?

Sounds similar to the plan Hamilton had before firing Fulmer...

 

[SlyStone]

Admiral was a 3 star who took 2 years to develop. Sure, great player. But we arent talking about a coach who signed top 100 players.

Counzo only signed high level 5 stars at Cal and Mizzou. JRich had to develop into a pro. He left us with guys like A J Davis, Thompson, and others who never played for Tyndall or were no good.

It’s not even close to what Barnes has signed.

Gaines, Pember, Walker, Anosike, glad we still got those guys around.

 

[Voltime123]

I'm now realizing that memory and reading comprehension are apparently not one of your strengths, so I will take the liberty of quoting my reply to you from the previous page of this thread. You know, from earlier today......

Then I guess I don’t understand your perspective at all…Barnes is already one of the best coaches in UT basketball history and you are of the opinion that we can do better? Or that he is overrated? You are not making any sense…the guy is already top two mens basketball coaches in UT history but he is overrated? Make that make sense…

 

[vols35]

Then I guess I don’t understand your perspective at all…Barnes is already one of the best coaches in UT basketball history and you are of the opinion that we can do better? Or that he is overrated? You are not making any sense…the guy is already top two mens basketball coaches in UT history but he is overrated? Make that make sense…

Pretty clear you're happy with the status quo, don't aspire for better, and have no issues overpaying for a coach who would have dropped us like a $2 hooker if another program thought he was ultimately worth the money. Fair enough. That's not how I see things.

 

[Voltime123]

Pretty clear you're happy with the status quo, don't aspire for better, and have no issues overpaying for a coach who would have dropped us like a $2 hooker if another program thought he was ultimately worth the money. Fair enough. That's not how I see things.

That program you are referring to is UCLA one of the best blue blood programs ever in basketball…most coaches would listen to their offer and don’t tell me you don’t ask for raises at your job either…

 

[vols35]

That program you are referring to is UCLA one of the best blue blood programs ever in basketball…most coaches would listen to their offer and don’t tell me you don’t ask for raises at your job either…

I think you must live in an alternate universe or you're smoking the funny stuff. Barnes didn't ask for a raise or simply listened to their offer. He was all in and had his bags packed. If you were paying attention, you would understand that he has clearly stated he was ready to go, but UCLA wasn't willing to pony up the money. Such a great show of loyalty, huh? That's called dropping us like a $2 hooker if UCLA thought he was worth the cash outlay. You seriously don't understand that fact?

 

[Voltime123]

I think you must live in an alternate universe or you're smoking the funny stuff. Barnes didn't ask for a raise or simply listened to their offer. He was all in and had his bags packed. If you were paying attention, you would understand that he has clearly stated he was ready to go, but UCLA wasn't willing to pony up the money. Such a great show of loyalty, huh? That's called dropping us like a $2 hooker if UCLA thought he was worth the cash outlay. You seriously don't understand that fact?

Lol I must have imagined the 5 million dollar raise you keep referring too, you act as if ucla did not play a part in him wanting more money…

 

[vols35]

Lol I must have imagined the 5 million dollar raise you keep referring too, you act as if ucla did not play a part in him wanting more money…

It's clear that you will keep avoiding facts when they don't fit the fantasy world view you're constructing. Hint: your opinions are not anchored to objective, observable reality. What he did was accept an offer from another program who eventually decided that he wasn't worth the money and then backed out, leaving him at Tennessee. Unless you have something factual or intelligent to contribute, I'm done going back and forth with you. It's ridiculous.

 

[SGMVols]

Pretty clear you're happy with the status quo, don't aspire for better, and have no issues overpaying for a coach who would have dropped us like a $2 hooker if another program thought he was ultimately worth the money. Fair enough. That's not how I see things.

There has never been a basketball coach at UT who wouldn’t have left for UCLA if offered.

 

[Voltime123]

It's clear that you will keep avoiding facts when they don't fit the fantasy world view you're constructing. Hint: your opinions are not anchored to objective, observable reality. What he did was accept an offer from another program who eventually decided that he wasn't worth the money and then backed out, leaving him at Tennessee. Unless you have something factual or intelligent to contribute, I'm done going back and forth with you. It's ridiculous.

Didn’t know we were arguing over what happened btw Barnes and UCLA but moreso your prospective of him being overrated and not worth the money…those are your words. All I did was dispute that by laminating he is already top two in UT basketball coaching history in terms of success…what is factual and intelligent in calling him “overrated and overpaid” when he is already one of the best coaches in UT basketball history? You see how what you are saying makes no sense…

 

[vols35]

There has never been a basketball coach at UT who wouldn’t have left for UCLA if offered.

You can assume that, which is absolutely fine by any measure, but it's hypothetical and not supported by the facts. It is objective fact that Barnes was ready to go and UCLA backed out at the last minute.

 

[vols35]

Didn’t know we were arguing over what happened btw Barnes and UCLA but moreso your prospective of him being overrated and not worth the money…those are your words. All I did was dispute that by laminating he is already top two in UT basketball coaching history in terms of success…what is factual and intelligent in calling him “overrated and overpaid” when he is already one of the best coaches in UT basketball history? You see how what you are saying makes no sense…

There are lots of things you don't know sir.