Romney campaign caught lying, red handed

#102
#102
volinbham said:
I was being a bit sarcastic but I do think it is spin to say that this type sentiment is isolated to a very small group within Libya - history just doesn't back up this claim. Likewise it's hard to image the Libyan government is a unified structure (given it's relatively young age) and is not saying the right thing to keep the aid flowing rather than truly being fully pro-American.

Put another way, I'm sure we are getting spin from the administration (as we would from any administration).
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Sentiment is different than acting in violence toward such sentiment. Big difference. There are going to be many sympathizers across the region who would not act in violence but don't necessarily believe the feel bad for the US.
 
#103
#103
Taking politics out of it for a moment, IMO Romney was wrong to pounce on this the way he did. Americans were killed, that's not the time to play politics. The way he came at this was almost gleeful that he had something to use in his campaign.

The Obama administration was wrong in their condemnation/apology involving this movie and free speech. While I find the idea of the movie tasteless, I see no need for the country to apologize for the actions of a citizen. Muslims are offended by depictions of Muhammad, I'm offended when they burn our flag. I'm more offended when they kill U.S. citizens when the U.S. has been providing them aid. I haven't heard of them apologizing for the actions of their citizens, why should we be apologizing for the actions of ours. And yes, they have condemned the actions, but condemnation is not the same as apologizing.

In the end, the Libyan govt will take no action in finding those responsible and punishing them. If roles were reversed, our govt would be held responsible, but the Libyan govt will not be. That, to me, is outrageous.

At a time like this, politics should be shelved, and honoring those who died in the name of this country should be paramount. I hate that their deaths are being used so callously by both sides.
 
#104
#104
PKT_VOL said:
Sentiment is different than acting in violence toward such sentiment. Big difference. There are going to be many sympathizers across the region who would not act in violence but don't necessarily believe the feel bad for the US.
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It ain't over IMHO. More to come (more violence and people)
 
#105
#105
volinbham said:
Interestingly enough the statements from Hillary and Obama today both said this was a small group of loons and that the Libyan government and people were on our side.

Is that an accurate statement of the situation? What % of the Libyan population/government is really on our side of this issue? If it's not the vast majority is the administration "blatantly lying" to us for political gain? Was this really an isolated incident; an anomaly if you will or a reflection of a deeper sentiment among a larger proportion of the Libyan population and government?
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There is no doubt that much of the Libyan population and government is grateful for our helping them without intruding into their country and occupying them. Neither is there any doubt about the existence of well armed radical elements. The militias which fought the revolt against Quadaffi have not disarmed; there are different factions; Islamic fundamenalists are a minority but they are in the mix. There was a protest at the embassy, and then there was an attack in force by a separate group which overwhelmed the security. I think an RPG set the building on fire. The Ambassador died of smoke inhalation.
 
#106
#106
I wouldn't have advised Romney to come as strong as he did, but his actions are not quite as vulgar as is being portrayed IMO.
 
#107
#107
PKT_VOL said:
Apparently the peaceful protesters who were originally at the US consulate were the ones who intervened and took the victims to the hospital.

The government has denounced the action.

Reporters inside Libya say that the country is overwhelmingly pro American. They said there were actually "We're Sorry" rallies in the street today.

So I'd say this was a planned attack by a small terrorist cell. The fact that it happened on 9/11 is not a coincidence.
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I had not heard this, but if true, I'm impressed.
 
#108
#108
Weezer said:
Taking politics out of it for a moment, IMO Romney was wrong to pounce on this the way he did. Americans were killed, that's not the time to play politics. The way he came at this was almost gleeful that he had something to use in his campaign.

The Obama administration was wrong in their condemnation/apology involving this movie and free speech. While I find the idea of the movie tasteless, I see no need for the country to apologize for the actions of a citizen. Muslims are offended by depictions of Muhammad, I'm offended when they burn our flag. I'm more offended when they kill U.S. citizens when the U.S. has been providing them aid. I haven't heard of them apologizing for the actions of their citizens, why should we be apologizing for the actions of ours. And yes, they have condemned the actions, but condemnation is not the same as apologizing.

In the end, the Libyan govt will take no action in finding those responsible and punishing them. If roles were reversed, our govt would be held responsible, but the Libyan govt will not be. That, to me, is outrageous.

At a time like this, politics should be shelved, and honoring those who died in the name of this country should be paramount. I hate that their deaths are being used so callously by both sides.
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I agree but will say that Romney commented prior to knowing about the Libyan event and related deaths. Still, discretion would have been better.
 
#110
#110
McDad said:
I wonder what we may infer about President Obama's tenure once he is defeated by such a lackluster, error prone, mediocre nominee with an incoherent message?
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According to P.T. Barnum, "There's a sucker born every minute." I really don't know why anybody but the super rich would support Romney. Those are the only people in our country that Romney and the Republicans care about.
 
#111
#111
Vol Main said:
I am not sure how one could put "good president" and "five trillion dollars of deficits in three and a half years" in the same sentence. It is quite dumbfounding. PKT

Policy is made in a continuum. President Clinton left President Bush with a budget surplus. President Bush lowered taxes on the very wealthy and financed the entire war in Iraq with debt; he did not pay for any of his war policy with tax revenue. He left President Obama with a huge deficit and a deregulated economy on the brink of "a depression worse than the Great Depression," the words of President Bush's Secretary of Treasury. I think President Obama has managed those crises rather well, considering that Republicans in the Congress devoted themselves above all else to his failure.
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I am not a fan of Bush.

There is no question that Obama inherited a mess. There is also no question that he has done nothing to help curb the outrageous spending. In fact, he is only accelerated the problem. This is due to two facts; first he is Keynesian economist and the second is that he believes in expanding the entitlement programs. I want a man in office that is serious about curbing spending. Obama and Romney are not the answer.

As for the debt occurred from the two wars, I read that it was somewhere in the neighborhood of $1.5 trillion. Obama's share while he was in office is roughly $500 billion or 10% of the total deficit under Obama's administration. Although the Iraq War should have never happened, the excuse of the deficit being caused by unpaid wars from the previous administration is just not true.

Bush's tax cuts were for everyone, not just the rich. The lower brackets were helped the most if I remember right.

The economic disaster is a legitimate point. However, both Bush and Obama's administration mishandled the bailouts in my opinion. Obama also tried to spend his way out of the recession. That was a critical failure. You can't print your way out of a recession or depression. That is just fact. So, although he inherited a economic mess from Bush (not Bush's fault btw), Obama has not exactly helped himself out.
 
#112
#112
Vol Main said:
According to P.T. Barnum, "There's a sucker born every minute." I really don't know why anybody but the super rich would support Romney. Those are the only people in our country that Romney and the Republicans care about.
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You can't be that close-minded after the post about your open-minded, independent voter status.
 
#113
#113
lawgator1 said:
The real source of this vitriol is the simple fact that Obama is pulling away and Romney's campaign effort is just lackluster. Error after error, lack of a coherent message, and a mediocre nominee.

The frustration the GOP has ought to be directed inward, where it belongs, instead of irrationally lashing out like it does at the Dems just because they have a better product at the moment.
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Come on man. The inconsistency in this story is obamas foreign poliicy
 
#114
#114
Weezer said:
Taking politics out of it for a moment, IMO Romney was wrong to pounce on this the way he did. Americans were killed, that's not the time to play politics. The way he came at this was almost gleeful that he had something to use in his campaign.

The Obama administration was wrong in their condemnation/apology involving this movie and free speech. While I find the idea of the movie tasteless, I see no need for the country to apologize for the actions of a citizen. Muslims are offended by depictions of Muhammad, I'm offended when they burn our flag. I'm more offended when they kill U.S. citizens when the U.S. has been providing them aid. I haven't heard of them apologizing for the actions of their citizens, why should we be apologizing for the actions of ours. And yes, they have condemned the actions, but condemnation is not the same as apologizing.

In the end, the Libyan govt will take no action in finding those responsible and punishing them. If roles were reversed, our govt would be held responsible, but the Libyan govt will not be. That, to me, is outrageous.

At a time like this, politics should be shelved, and honoring those who died in the name of this country should be paramount. I hate that their deaths are being used so callously by both sides.
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From what I understand, that is not true. They are already gathering Intel for the US on those who are responsible. The US special forces, US intelligence, and the Libyan government are supposedly working in tandem to bring justice to the victims. I guess we will see if that holds in the coming days.
 
#116
#116
Vol Main said:
I'm a non-partisan independent, so I suppose the mobs will be after me soon enough. For the record, Obama is a good President; I plan on voting for him. Romney has disqualified himself from being President of the United States, many times in many ways.
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Obama is a good President??? lol

I don't know a single independent that could say that w a straight face.
 
#117
#117
volinbham said:
You can't be that close-minded after the post about your open-minded, independent voter status.
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Lookit, I'm not impressed with personal comments which evade the real issues. If you think that Republicans in Washington vote for the interests of anybody but the most wealthy people in America, then reply by telling us who those other people are and how Republicans support them.
 
#119
#119
PKT_VOL said:
I am not a fan of Bush.

There is no question that Obama inherited a mess. There is also no question that he has done nothing to help curb the outrageous spending. In fact, he is only accelerated the problem. This is due to two facts; first he is Keynesian economist and the second is that he believes in expanding the entitlement programs. I want a man in office that is serious about curbing spending. Obama and Romney are not the answer.

As for the debt occurred from the two wars, I read that it was somewhere in the neighborhood of $1.5 trillion. Obama's share while he was in office is roughly $500 billion or 10% of the total deficit under Obama's administration. Although the Iraq War should have never happened, the excuse of the deficit being caused by unpaid wars from the previous administration is just not true.

Bush's tax cuts were for everyone, not just the rich. The lower brackets were helped the most if I remember right.

The economic disaster is a legitimate point. However, both Bush and Obama's administration mishandled the bailouts in my opinion. Obama also tried to spend his way out of the recession. That was a critical failure. You can't print your way out of a recession or depression. That is just fact. So, although he inherited a economic mess from Bush (not Bush's fault btw), Obama has not exactly helped himself out.
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x1,000

I will overlook your previous sarcasm.
 
#121
#121
PKT_VOL said:
From what I understand, that is not true. They are already gathering Intel for the US on those who are responsible. The US special forces, US intelligence, and the Libyan government are supposedly working in tandem to bring justice to the victims. I guess we will see if that holds in the coming days.
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If that happens, I'll be impressed. That would show we've made some strides in the region. I've never been a big fan of Hillary Clinton, but in fairness and honesty, I think she's done a good job as SoS.
 
#124
#124
Vol Main said:
Lookit, I'm not impressed with personal comments which evade the real issues. If you think that Republicans in Washington vote for the interests of anybody but the most wealthy people in America, then reply by telling us who those other people are and how Republicans support them.
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Well your starting point is a false premise. That aside, I think both Dem and Rep believe in helping the entire country but see different routes to get there. Personally, I'll take the Rep approach over the Dem approach but it's pretty much useless to discuss it with someone who starts from the premise that you do.
 
#125
#125
Weezer said:
If that happens, I'll be impressed. That would show we've made some strides in the region. I've never been a big fan of Hillary Clinton, but in fairness and honesty, I think she's done a good job as SoS.
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funny that she was 2 million miles away from DNC
 
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