Russia bounty on US troops

#304
#304
McDad said:
I used to think the same. @Mick and I discussed it one time and he provided good sources that the embassy was part of a covert gun running operation. We still failed them on security but the "embassy" may not have been as clean as we once thought.
There's certainly more grey than black and white with the event for me now compared to when it happened.
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The countless years investigating the Benghazi saga and some are still sticking to the same old tripe. The who knew what when should still be subjected to congressional oversight with this incident. Maybe not 7 + partisan investigations.
 
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#308
#308
lawgator1 said:
Someone is lying.

Seems like the sources may be loyal Anericans who are frustrated that Trump did nothing in response to this and have leaked it because they are convinced that he is a Russian puppet.
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If he was briefed the two intelligence committees would have been briefed also...
 
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#310
#310
VFFL@THE BEACH said:
You may not like this point but I am going to make it anyway. From a few posts that I have read of yours you seem to want logical discussion. I think Clinton is recent but maybe I am too old or nostalgic.

I think an argument can be made that he was the last president to work well with the other side if the isle. He had Newt Gingrich as speaker while balancing the budget, reformed welfare, signed DOMA into law and avoided a full impeachment. These are not necessarily liberal ideas but he had to work with both parties. As for party agenda, yeah, presidents gotta put that as pretty much top priority. If not then they don't get re-elected or even belong to the party. (Not that it's a positive issue.)

Fire away.
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I don't necessarily disagree that Bill Clinton tried to work with both sides of the aisle, but he lost me when he couldn't control his own damn sexual urges while in the White House. And then lying about it. My biggest disappointments with Bill Clinton were mostly how he conducted himself personally, and the fact he's married to a horrible woman.

As for having to put party agenda first, it's the fact we have come to rely on political parties for nominations that I have a problem with. The country didn't originate with political parties, but they quickly formed, and came heavily into play after George Washington(who tried to warn the nation of the dangers political parties would bring)left office.
 
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#312
#312
titansvolsfaninga said:
He's actively sharing white supremacists videos....I don't think he trying to win. He's trying to establish the narrative that the election will be tainted.
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LOL. Wait..you mean the old guy in the villages trolling libtards? HAHAHAHAAH. Yeah that was scary a scary White Supremacist moment. LOL.
 
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#313
#313
McDad said:
I used to think the same. @Mick and I discussed it one time and he provided good sources that the embassy was part of a covert gun running operation. We still failed them on security but the "embassy" may not have been as clean as we once thought.
There's certainly more grey than black and white with the event for me now compared to when it happened.
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Even if it was part of some covert cover up, who was in charge of it? Who was supposed to protect the ambassador, and why were his requests for more security ignored? Why wasn't an American response team sent immediately? Why was it that locals had to dig a still alive at the time ambassador from the rubble instead of a response team? Why was the first response from the administration a lie?

There were plenty of questions to be asked about Benghazi, and many I do not believe were ever fully addressed. So I don't see why the left continues to bellyache that it was "unfair". The family of Chris Stevens deserved some answers.
 
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#314
#314
So there's a question to the veracity of the story? The one thing that leads me to doubt at least some of the story is the fact the Gang of 8 also seemed surprised by the information. If POTUS was briefed as has been claimed, they would have been briefed as well. That's not to say the entire story is untrue, but it certainly brings into question who was told what, and if the information itself was verified.

I know both sides will believe whatever they want to fit the narrative they want to be true, but the gang of 8 is supposed to receive the same classified briefings as POTUS, so if they had no knowledge of the situation, it brings into question if Trump actually had knowledge of the situation. If the information is true, and has been verified, then the question becomes why was the intelligence community withholding this information? And I don't buy "Trump loves Russia" as a reason because members of both parties leadership would have been given the same information in their briefings. It seems something more is in play here.
 
#316
#316
Weezer said:
Even if it was part of some covert cover up, who was in charge of it? Who was supposed to protect the ambassador, and why were his requests for more security ignored? Why wasn't an American response team sent immediately? Why was it that locals had to dig a still alive at the time ambassador from the rubble instead of a response team? Why was the first response from the administration a lie?

There were plenty of questions to be asked about Benghazi, and many I do not believe were ever fully addressed. So I don't see why the left continues to bellyache that it was "unfair". The family of Chris Stevens deserved some answers.
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I am quite sure that his family doesn't want his name used as political fodder. However I am pretty sure that security (money) of the consulates falls to Congress. How many more investigations do you want to see happen? What's a sufficient number for you to be satisfied?
 
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#317
#317
Weezer said:
Even if it was part of some covert cover up, who was in charge of it? Who was supposed to protect the ambassador, and why were his requests for more security ignored? Why wasn't an American response team sent immediately? Why was it that locals had to dig a still alive at the time ambassador from the rubble instead of a response team? Why was the first response from the administration a lie?

There were plenty of questions to be asked about Benghazi, and many I do not believe were ever fully addressed. So I don't see why the left continues to bellyache that it was "unfair". The family of Chris Stevens deserved some answers.
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Now if you could just find it in yourself to ask the same questions about the Russian Bounty on American troops, that would be great.

As for Stevens family, they seem to have a better grasp of things than you.

Dr. Anne Stevens, the sister of Ambassador Chris Stevens, has served as a family spokesperson since his death. She is the chief of pediatric rheumatology at Seattle Children’s Hospital. We spoke twice in the past three days, including shortly after the House Select Committee report was issued. Dr. Stevens recalled that her brother had been fascinated by the Middle East since childhood, when he dressed up as Lawrence of Arabia, with a towel and a pot atop his head. He served in the Peace Corps, in Morocco, before joining the Foreign Service, and he served twice in Libya before his final posting there, as well as in Damascus, Cairo, Jerusalem, and Riyadh. My interview with Dr. Stevens has been condensed and edited for clarity.

Whom do you fault for the lack of security that resulted in the death of your brother, in Benghazi?
It is clear, in hindsight, that the facility was not sufficiently protected by the State Department and the Defense Department. But what was the underlying cause? Perhaps if Congress had provided a budget to increase security for all missions around the world, then some of the requests for more security in Libya would have been granted. Certainly the State Department is underbudgeted.
I do not blame Hillary Clinton or Leon Panetta. They were balancing security efforts at embassies and missions around the world. And their staffs were doing their best to provide what they could with the resources they had. The Benghazi Mission was understaffed. We know that now. But, again, Chris knew that. It wasn’t a secret to him. He decided to take the risk to go there. It is not something they did to him. It is something he took on himself.

Chris Stevens’s Family: Don’t Blame Hillary Clinton for Benghazi
 
#318
#318
titansvolsfaninga said:
I am quite sure that his family doesn't want his name used as political fodder. However I am pretty sure that security (money) of the consulates falls to Congress. How many more investigations do you want to see happen? What's a sufficient number for you to be satisfied?
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Defense of the consulate/request for more security would have been handled by the State Department.
 
#319
#319
Mick said:
Now if you could just find it in yourself to ask the same questions about the Russian Bounty on American troops, that would be great.

As for Stevens family, they seem to have a better grasp of things than you.

Dr. Anne Stevens, the sister of Ambassador Chris Stevens, has served as a family spokesperson since his death. She is the chief of pediatric rheumatology at Seattle Children’s Hospital. We spoke twice in the past three days, including shortly after the House Select Committee report was issued. Dr. Stevens recalled that her brother had been fascinated by the Middle East since childhood, when he dressed up as Lawrence of Arabia, with a towel and a pot atop his head. He served in the Peace Corps, in Morocco, before joining the Foreign Service, and he served twice in Libya before his final posting there, as well as in Damascus, Cairo, Jerusalem, and Riyadh. My interview with Dr. Stevens has been condensed and edited for clarity.

Whom do you fault for the lack of security that resulted in the death of your brother, in Benghazi?
It is clear, in hindsight, that the facility was not sufficiently protected by the State Department and the Defense Department. But what was the underlying cause? Perhaps if Congress had provided a budget to increase security for all missions around the world, then some of the requests for more security in Libya would have been granted. Certainly the State Department is underbudgeted.
I do not blame Hillary Clinton or Leon Panetta. They were balancing security efforts at embassies and missions around the world. And their staffs were doing their best to provide what they could with the resources they had. The Benghazi Mission was understaffed. We know that now. But, again, Chris knew that. It wasn’t a secret to him. He decided to take the risk to go there. It is not something they did to him. It is something he took on himself.

Chris Stevens’s Family: Don’t Blame Hillary Clinton for Benghazi
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I have asked questions about these Russian bounty allegations. Right now, we need more information because what we're being told does not add up.

I'm glad Stevens' sister has peace, but this does not answer any of the other questions I brought up. For one moment, let's put aside who is to blame, and I'll even acknowledge that most of the hearings were probably political(which they should not have been), that does not answer the valid questions that needed to be asked. There was a failure in the system. Why there was a failure, and by whom, was a question that needed/probably still needs an answer. It doesn't matter which party is in power, or who's sitting in the Oval Office, there was a failure to protect an ambassador, and it deserved to be investigated and answers sought. But of course, all some people see is politics. IMO, it goes beyond politics.
 
#321
#321
Weezer said:
Defense of the consulate/request for more security would have been handled by the State Department.
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That request is sent to Congress. Congress appropriates the money. If the money is denied, which it was, the State Department has to make due with what they have. That consulate was not the only one where security was/is lacking.
 
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