Russia brings the fight to ISIS in Syria!!!

#701
#701
Hell, we watched on our own TV screens roughly 25 years ago as the CCP and its PLA military wing murdered somewhere between 1,000-2,000 defenseless Chinese on the streets of Beijing. Does the fact that the Chinese people haven't kicked them out yet or haven't popularly revolted make the CCP somehow "not that bad"?

Stop justifying the poor behavior of others in the world simply because you hate American foreign policy so much.
 
#702
#702
volprof said:
By that kind of thinking, it also stands to reason that regimes like Kim's in North Korea and even groups like ISIS themselves can't possibly be bad because locals haven't kicked them out yet.

But, yeah, keep defending a mass murderer.

You do know that you can still be anti-US foreign policy while not having to sell your soul to the Devil, right?
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Keep believing the lies. That's why we are over there...gullibleness like yours.

Keep believing we didn't initiate the Syrian opposition to start this civil war. Keep believing that we don't train, fund and equip terrorist, including ISIS. Keep believing that we are on the right side of this...
 
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#704
#704
Pacer92 said:
Keep believing the lies. That's why we are over there...gullibleness like yours.

Keep believing we didn't initiate the Syrian opposition to start this civil war. Keep believing that we don't train, fund and equip terrorist, including ISIS. Keep believing that we are on the right side of this...
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You calling anyone a "sheep" or "gullible" is an insult to insults.

You exhibit the most backasswards logic of any poster on this entire forum.

And again, stop making light of the suffering of other people (in this case, Syrians) to justify your ridiculously biased political narratives and agenda. How you rationalize defending someone like Assad is unclear to me; it's even more unclear how you sleep at night. Saying that America shouldn't have gotten involved in his removal (which I agree with) is one thing. Rationalizing and justifying all his crimes by creating a false narrative that suits your prejudiced and biased historical outlook, however, is another thing entirely.

It's callous, calculating, and cold-blooded. I don't care how you spin it.
 
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#705
#705
volprof said:
You calling anyone a "sheep" or "gullible" is an insult to insults.

You exhibit the most backasswards logic of any poster on this entire forum.

And again, stop making light of the suffering of other people (in this case, Syrians) to justify your ridiculously biased political narratives and agenda. How you rationalize defending someone like Assad is unclear to me; it's even more unclear how you sleep at night. Saying that America shouldn't have gotten involved in his removal (which I agree with) is one thing. Rationalizing and justifying all his crimes by creating a false narrative that suits your prejudiced and biased historical outlook, however, is another thing entirely.

It's callous, calculating, and cold-blooded. I don't care how you spin it.
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I'm not defending Assad, but most Syrians are and that's all that matters in this debate...
 
#706
#706
Pacer92 said:
I'm not defending Assad, but most Syrians are and that's all that matters in this debate...
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Well, you sure do a great impersonation of it.

Most Syrians may or may not support him; I don't think we'll really ever know, because it's an authoritarian regime that manipulates polling and presides over a civil war with more factions than can be counted.

But I do know one thing for certain: he's directly and indirectly responsible for more innocent loss of life than ISIS. And while ISIS is doing an excellent job of playing catch up, the fact cannot be disputed. (I'm not even referencing supposed chemical attacks, which are still mostly debatable.)
 
#707
#707
Pacer92 said:
I'm not defending Assad, but most Syrians are and that's all that matters in this debate...
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Its amazing that in Ukraine, the voices of the people needed to be heard by throwing out Yanukovich. Yet in Syria, the voices of the people dont need to be heard when it comes to defending Assad.
 
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#708
#708
Pacer92 said:
It's no secret we had plans to disrupt Syria going back to 2006. Like I stated earlier, opposition exists in every state. Im positive it existed in syria and I think we exploited that by funding and legitimizing a small minority to fuel a civil war. I believe, without the funding and backing of our government, this would've been squashed years ago.

Why do we never support diplomacy at the onset of these uprisings? We support the complete removal without diplomatic efforts to hear all sides. Why is using force the trending political solution in most of our efforts??
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A person has to understand what an Islamic theocracy is before making policies.
 
#710
#710
Rasputin_Vol said:
Its amazing that in Ukraine, the voices of the people needed to be heard by throwing out Yanukovich. Yet in Syria, the voices of the people dont need to be heard when it comes to defending Assad.
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I know you're still consulting your trusty agitprop manual given to you some years ago by the Soviet Ministry of Ridiculous Ideas, but, as you may or may not have noticed, there's currently a civil war in Syria.

Greek logic dictates that, in order for their to be a sustained civil war (in other words, a conflict that lasts far beyond that which mere everyday internal strife would create) a ruling government cannot be altogether popular or that, even if favorable to most, there aren't legitimate grievances held by certain factions. We've moved well beyond the simplistic "It's all a CIA coup" stage by now. This is obviously something much, much deeper.

Had you had the vote of who was most popular during the American Civil War, the American government would have won in a landslide, but that didn't mean that there weren't real Southern grievances or that there weren't actually any strong secessionists elements in the South.

You guys, your logic is all wrong. Keep trying to use historical antecedents and analogies that don't even work under scrutiny.
 
#711
#711
 
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#712
#712
 
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#713
#713
The oil pipeline from Jordan to Turkey is the real reason for this war in Syria. Nothing to do with internal opposition to Assad...
 
#714
#714
Pacer92 said:
The oil pipeline from Jordan to Turkey is the real reason for this war in Syria. Nothing to do with internal opposition to Assad...
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I just can't understand why more people don't realize this. We are not only risking our young men's lives overseas, but we are on the brink of bringing the fight here at home with nukes flying. And for what? So we can prop up the USD and fill the pockets of big wigs that don't give a crap about America or American lives.
 
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#715
#715
Rasputin_Vol said:
I just can't understand why more people don't realize this. We are not only risking our young men's lives overseas, but we are on the brink of bringing the fight here at home with nukes flying. And for what? So we can prop up the USD and fill the pockets of big wigs that don't give a crap about America or American lives.
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I don't get it either. People need to realize that keeping the dollar almighty is why we are sabre rattling the likes of Russia and China. Two of the few countries that can harm Americans from afar.

This pipeline is just a scheme to choke off Russia's oil influence in Europe. We are going to push one of these countries into a corner and they're going to come out swinging.
 
#716
#716
Pacer92 said:
I don't get it either. People need to realize that keeping the dollar almighty is why we are sabre rattling the likes of Russia and China. Two of the few countries that can harm Americans from afar.

This pipeline is just a scheme to choke off Russia's oil influence in Europe. We are going to push one of these countries into a corner and they're going to come out swinging.
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We are making a big stink about Crimea and Ukraine which have ties to Russia going back hundreds of years and a group of atolls and reefs that the Chinese have been fishing and sailing through for 2 thousand years.
 
#717
#717
Velo Vol said:
Why didn't the rebels prevail a year or two ago, before ISIS or Russia had strength in the country?
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Because a year or two ago they were literally fighting with sticks and rocks and bottles, whatever they had. You're not allowed to own rifles in syria.
 
#719
#719
Pacer92 said:
So, why hasn't the UN intervened in Syria?
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they had observers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Supervision_Mission_in_Syria

why haven't they gotten involved in Ukraine? Or any number of other conflicts around the world? Generally its because no one on the security council wants to get involved. it takes one of the 5 to push it and lead it (most troops) and one can stop it with a veto. but i haven't heard anything about any UN security council member pushing it, or Assad either.
 
#720
#720
LouderVol said:
they had observers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Supervision_Mission_in_Syria

why haven't they gotten involved in Ukraine? Or any number of other conflicts around the world? Generally its because no one on the security council wants to get involved. it takes one of the 5 to push it and lead it (most troops) and one can stop it with a veto. but i haven't heard anything about any UN security council member pushing it, or Assad either.
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Ukraine wasn't led by a purported mass murderer either, as the US proclaims with Assad. Seems if there were legit evidence to these atrocities that the US and it's 60 strong coalition would be fighting in Syria legally via UN mandate, instead of illegally..
 
#721
#721
Pacer92 said:
Ukraine wasn't led by a purported mass murderer either, as the US proclaims with Assad. Seems if there were legit evidence to these atrocities that the US and it's 60 strong coalition would be fighting in Syria legally via UN mandate, instead of illegally..
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And if Russia or Syria really wanted ISIS gone they would call in the UN. both have the ability. even if someone was to shoot it down you have to at least make the attempt. Makes it real easy to sell the America is a bad guy if they shoot down a Syria/Russian proposal. but so far neither side wants any part of the UN being involved. the laundry basket isn't just full of our dirty laundry.
 
#722
#722
LouderVol said:
And if Russia or Syria really wanted ISIS gone they would call in the UN. both have the ability. even if someone was to shoot it down you have to at least make the attempt. Makes it real easy to sell the America is a bad guy if they shoot down a Syria/Russian proposal. but so far neither side wants any part of the UN being involved. the laundry basket isn't just full of our dirty laundry.
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Being that a 60 nation coalition couldn't rid ISIS in 14 mos., I suppose you have to take matters into your own hands at times.

And no, ours isn't the only dirty laundry there, but we are there illegally. We accuse Assad of atrocities and war crimes, however..

Bombing in another sovereign country without a UN mandate or without the leader of sovereign country's permission, is a war crime. It probably not going to happen, but since Russia is the only one there legally, they should set up a no fly zone over Syria.

It's going to be very interesting when these 50 SOF are on the ground. We obviously aren't going to leave until Assad is gone, agree?! I just feel this is a set up waiting to happen...
 
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#723
#723
Pacer92 said:
Ukraine wasn't led by a purported mass murderer either, as the US proclaims with Assad. Seems if there were legit evidence to these atrocities that the US and it's 60 strong coalition would be fighting in Syria legally via UN mandate, instead of illegally..
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You seem to mistake Russia (a nation that killed some 50,000-100,000 of its own citizens in the North Caucasus) and China (a nation that has killed 30-60 million of its own citizens and executes 1,000+ political prisoners each year to this very day) with nations that actually give a **** about an authoritarian regime killing its own people.
 
#724
#724
Pacer92 said:
Being that a 60 nation coalition couldn't rid ISIS in 14 mos., I suppose you have to take matters into your own hands at times.

And no, ours isn't the only dirty laundry there, but we are there illegally. We accuse Assad of atrocities and war crimes, however..

Bombing in another sovereign country without a UN mandate or without the leader of sovereign country's permission, is a war crime. It probably not going to happen, but since Russia is the only one there legally, they should set up a no fly zone over Syria.

It's going to be very interesting when these 50 SOF are on the ground. We obviously aren't going to leave until Assad is gone, agree?! I just feel this is a set up waiting to happen...
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Russia setting up a No Fly Zone in Syria is as dumb and idiotic and mindless as the US setting up a No Fly Zone in Syria, like some of our numbskull Congress/presidential candidates have advocated for.
 
#725
#725
Look, I don't doubt the desire to get Gulf States' oil up to Turkey and beyond to Europe was a factor that exacerbated the Syrian conflict, giving more impetus for the Gulf States, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and possibly even the US to arm and/or support the Syrian opposition.

That was not, however, the cause. The causes of the war are numerous, and they include a history of disenfranchisement, geographical insecurities, domestic economics, etc. In the case of the Syrian Civil War, the spark that set it all off was the urban strife created by the nation's extended drought.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/03/s...to-drought-caused-by-climate-change.html?_r=0

And I don't care about the climate change aspect of it (whether it was or wasn't; apparently there's an online conservative element denying this was a factor simply because they disagree that climate change may be real); I'm just talking about the drought itself, not the scientific implications of it.

Oil and gas are incredibly powerful cards, but you start having people's water and (via extension) food sources depleted, you've got a big freaking problem and in a hurry.

To say that a conflict has long and as deadly as Syria's is merely the result of a damn pipeline is not only intellectually bankrupt, it also does a disservice to Syrians, basically constructing them as a bunch of mindless buffoons who don't know their rectums from their mouths.
 
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