Russia brings the fight to ISIS in Syria!!!

#751
#751
Pacer92 said:
I hate to sound like this, but to eradicate the problem, collateral damage must occur...sad, but so..

I hope they Willy Pete the **** out of whatever place they need to. Jmo
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so suddenly you don't care about civies getting killed? Or is it only when the US does "borderline" war crimes that you come after them?

and we still don't know if the Russians are actually using this stuff.
 
#752
#752
LouderVol said:
so suddenly you don't care about civies getting killed? Or is it only when the US does "borderline" war crimes that you come after them?

and we still don't know if the Russians are actually using this stuff.
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Borderline? Really!? Collateral damage and intentional targeting isn't the same. You knew that though, I'm sure...
 
#754
#754
These terrorist attacks are bad news for Russia.

CUG3lzbWcAA47-M.png:large
 
#755
#755
Pacer92 said:
I hate to sound like this, but to eradicate the problem, collateral damage must occur...sad, but so..

I hope they Willy Pete the **** out of whatever place they need to. Jmo
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My, oh my. So you are a little devil after all, even after that damn speech last week about how much more caring than the rest of us you are regarding foreign policy.

Seems, sir, that you have a problem with double standards. Russia does something, it can't possibly be wrong. America does something, everything turns to ****, in your opinion.

At least the rest of us are consistent. But I will give you credit for the consistency of your inconsistency.
 
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#756
#756
Velo Vol said:
These terrorist attacks are bad news for Russia.

CUG3lzbWcAA47-M.png:large
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It will be amazing if the Middle East ultimately ends up being the unraveling of Europe and ultimately creates the divided, weak Europe that Russia has always hoped for, as the nation that would be the region's natural hegemon (now that the rabid dog that was always Germany appears to be put out of its misery for good) if not for those darned, meddling Americans.
 
#759
#759
volprof said:
My, oh my. So you are a little devil after all, even after that damn speech last week about how much more caring than the rest of us you are regarding foreign policy.

Seems, sir, that you have a problem with double standards. Russia does something, it can't possibly be wrong. America does something, everything turns to ****, in your opinion.

At least the rest of us are consistent. But I will give you credit for the consistency of your inconsistency.
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Seems you have a problem with selective hearing or memory. I've always said that if we are going to go to war for legit reasons that are not supported by lies, then I'm all for it. Collateral damage is part of war. If we are somewhere fighting legally and there's collateral damage, I won't say a word. But, therein lies the problem...
 
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#764
#764
Bombings and feel-good homoeroticism aside, what must Putin do to really defeat ISIS and other jihadists in Syria? And is he willing to go that far?
 
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#765
#765
Pacer92 said:
Seems you have a problem with selective hearing or memory. I've always said that if we are going to go to war for legit reasons that are not supported by lies, then I'm all for it. Collateral damage is part of war. If we are somewhere fighting legally and there's collateral damage, I won't say a word. But, therein lies the problem...
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So you think helping Assad retain power in Syria, with a cynical policy that essentially amounts to "Well, you should see the other guy!," is a legitimate reason for collateral damage?

I think a policy of defeating jihadism in Syria along with negotiating a transferal of power and/or extreme federalism of Syria long-term may be a legitimate justification of collateral damage, but I don't see that as what Russia is aiming for, at least for now.
 
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#766
#766
volprof said:
So you think helping Assad retain power in Syria, with a cynical policy that essentially amounts to "Well, you should see the other guy!," is a legitimate reason for collateral damage?

I think a policy of defeating jihadism in Syria along with negotiating a transferal of power and/or extreme federalism of Syria long-term may be a legitimate justification of collateral damage, but I don't see that as what Russia is aiming for, at least for now.
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For starters, let's scap the plan to oust Assad. Lets focus on removing ALL terrorist, rebels, and extremist first, then I think everything else would fall into place. That would be a legit cause..

Russia is defending Assad legally under international law. We need to work with Russia in defeating the greater of two evils first, then if we have a bone to pick afterward....pick it..
 
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#767
#767
Pacer92 said:
For starters, let's scap the plan to oust Assad. Lets focus on removing ALL terrorist, rebels, and extremist first, then I think everything else would fall into place. That would be a legit cause..

Russia is defending Assad legally under international law. We need to work with Russia in defeating the greater of two evils first, then if we have a bone to pick afterward....pick it..
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Or, better yet, we scrap this false narrative that we have to take a side, and pull out of Syrian involvement everyone, and concentrate on de-funding these groups and on interjecting cash, education, and the equitable distribution of both around the Middle East so that the fire of radicalism can essentially suffocate instead of gaining constant valuable oxygen.

The US made the first grave initial errors in Iraq 2003 and in perpetuating the false narrative that we have to take a side against Assad.

But that doesn't mean Russia is helping the matter. Quite the opposite. And it shares plenty of blame as well for never truly engaging with Assad (beyond chemical weapons discussions) and curtailing the actions of this Kremlin proxy in the early days of the protests. Support a dictator who does dictator things, and you share some of the blame as well. The US doesn't get spared this criticism; neither should Russia.
 
#768
#768
volprof said:
Or, better yet, we scrap this false narrative that we have to take a side, and pull out of Syrian involvement everyone, and concentrate on de-funding these groups and on interjecting cash, education, and the equitable distribution of both around the Middle East so that the fire of radicalism can essentially suffocate instead of gaining constant valuable oxygen.

The US made the first grave initial errors in Iraq 2003 and in perpetuating the false narrative that we have to take a side against Assad.

But that doesn't mean Russia is helping the matter. Quite the opposite. And it shares plenty of blame as well for never truly engaging with Assad (beyond chemical weapons discussions) and curtailing the actions of this Kremlin proxy in the early days of the protests. Support a dictator who does dictator things, and you share some of the blame as well. The US doesn't get spared this criticism; neither should Russia.
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This is just as much a US proxy as it is Kremlin, my man. Yes, let's support the "dictator" versus the terrorist that are scaring the hell out of the rest of the world.

Assad MAY be a threat to Syrians, per MSM, but we all know that ISIS is the global threat, per MSM...right?!

We all know how evicting "dictators" HELPED this ME situation...
 
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#769
#769
Pacer92 said:
This is just as much a US proxy as it is Kremlin, my man. Yes, let's support the "dictator" versus the terrorist that are scaring the hell out of the rest of the world.

Assad MAY be a threat to Syrians, per MSM, but we all know that ISIS is the global threat, per MSM...right?!

We all know how evicting "dictators" HELPED this ME situation...
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Evicting them may not always help, especially in that part of the world, but supporting them while turning a blind eye doesn't necessarily help either. That can create its own problems, as it did in Syria. And as it soon will again in Chechnya.
 
#770
#770
I'm enjoying watching the news watching the Russians and France bomb the hell out of ISIS targets. Why wouldn't Obama do this? Did these targets just surface or was it that our spineless leader is just a chicken shat?
 
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#771
#771
I can't wait till conservatives become conservatives again, instead of crazy social rhetoric on the one hand and desire to spend ourselves into oblivion on countless wars in the Middle East on the other.

I want my grandfather's Republican party back.
 
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#772
#772
volprof said:
Evicting them may not always help, especially in that part of the world, but supporting them while turning a blind eye doesn't necessarily help either. That can create its own problems, as it did in Syria. And as it soon will again in Chechnya.
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I agree, there are loose cannons strategically in place for both sides. What is the right side? Both proclaim to be fighting the enemy, yet we have what we have....still a cluster in the ME that is morphing...
 
#773
#773
Pacer92 said:
I agree, there are loose cannons strategically in place for both sides. What is the right side? Both proclaim to be fighting the enemy, yet we have what we have....still a cluster in the ME that is morphing...
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If I could erase Iraq 2003, I would. Unfortunately, I don't possess that kind of power. I think, however, that that part of the world is just fundamentally different from most of the rest, its geographical, economic, and religious histories intertwining to give conflict and animosities exceptional longevity (you don't see radical Vietnamese, wishing to blow up Americans for the Vietnam War, for instance), and, as such, it can't really be confronted the way we might confront things with force elsewhere.

It's a part of the world where less is more, so to speak. It seems that actually engaging them militarily only perpetuates the instability. I don't think Russia is going to be any exception. Even its magical wand will wear off sooner or later.
 
#774
#774
volprof said:
If I could erase Iraq 2003, I would. Unfortunately, I don't possess that kind of power. I think, however, that that part of the world is just fundamentally different from most of the rest, its geographical, economic, and religious histories intertwining to give conflict and animosities exceptional longevity (you don't see radical Vietnamese, wishing to blow up Americans for the Vietnam War, for instance), and, as such, it can't really be confronted the way we might confront things with force elsewhere.

It's a part of the world where less is more, so to speak. It seems that actually engaging them militarily only perpetuates the instability. I don't think Russia is going to be any exception. Even its magical wand will wear off sooner or later.
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True, it's hasn't been conquered in modern times and I doubt that it will be, at least, ideologically.

The mindset is deeply rooted, way more than the American ideology...

Gonna take a complete infiltration and occupation imo
 
#775
#775
Pacer92 said:
True, it's hasn't been conquered in modern times and I doubt that it will be, at least, ideologically.

The mindset is deeply rooted, way more than the American ideology...

Gonna take a complete infiltration and occupation imo
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At some point, though, more will have to be done than just bribing Arab governments to keep the peace and suppress the tensions seething underneath. Chechnya is another case in point. Fundamental reforms and overhauls in the substructures of those states must eventually occur.

As a superpower, you will inevitably have some people that will resent you and your involvement anywhere, but particularly in this part of the world. The less forceful intervention from us, and the more economic aid provided and manufacturing initiatives created there that can allow for a more equitable distribution of wealth (along with reform in Arab states' oil industries) the better.
 
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