Saudi Arabia

#227
#227
lawgator1 said:
That's because I'm sick of the false Obama/Muslim equivalency. It's just a gimmick that is sooooo tired by now.

At first the shrieker talking point on this was that Obama was blocking release. The suggestion was that it was because he does not want to hurt Muslim interests. Then, when the shriekers realized, oh crap, that came out under Bush and he blocked it, first, now they have to find some other way to absurdly imply that Obama is blocking their release to help Muslims, even terrorists.

So now its that Obama, about to go visit SA, hasn't read those pages. Why, that must be because he's a Muslim in bed with the ME terrorists, right? At least that he sympathizes with them and is trying to help them save face, right?

As I say, I'd like to know what's in there. If there were people we can identify financing 9/11, then I say we go after them, no matter who they are, or who they are related to.

But the current political nutjob attacks on Obama as a Muslim sympathizer are far past pathetic. This goes back to the birther movement, of course, and the frequent irrational attacks of the far right trying to make us think there's a secret agent Muslim in the WH. For God's sake, just stop with the nonsense, ok?

I mean, you want to know what the GOP is about to nominate a guy who the majority of their own party can't stand? Its because the GOP has wasted the last 8 years doing absolutely nothing. About anything. GOP voters sit at home and get told every couple of years that the party stands for fiscal restraint, we need to control spending, we need to work on smarter, simpler, business regulation. So they vote for them.

Then what do they get? Transparently partisan committee meetings, like a dozen of them, to try to blame Obama or Clinton for every bad thing under the sun. 60 votes to repeal the ACA. Resolutions about this nonsense or that.

You want to know why the GOP is about to get its collective clock cleaned? Its because they promise to deliver on basic conservative ideals, followed by years of wasting everyone's fu$$ing time with crap like this, that's why.
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He does praise them often.
Obama proclaimed: “Generations of Muslim Americans helped to build our nation.” He didn’t mention the real contributions Muslims have made to our nation: you know, like rearranging the New York skyline, transforming government buildings into grim, nervous fortresses, making air travel into exercise in annoyance and humiliation that it is today, and draining the American economy with two futile wars and hundreds of billions spent on security and counterterror initiatives.
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#228
#228
lawgator1 said:
That's because I'm sick of the false Obama/Muslim equivalency. It's just a gimmick that is sooooo tired by now.

At first the shrieker talking point on this was that Obama was blocking release. The suggestion was that it was because he does not want to hurt Muslim interests. Then, when the shriekers realized, oh crap, that came out under Bush and he blocked it, first, now they have to find some other way to absurdly imply that Obama is blocking their release to help Muslims, even terrorists.

So now its that Obama, about to go visit SA, hasn't read those pages. Why, that must be because he's a Muslim in bed with the ME terrorists, right? At least that he sympathizes with them and is trying to help them save face, right?

As I say, I'd like to know what's in there. If there were people we can identify financing 9/11, then I say we go after them, no matter who they are, or who they are related to.

But the current political nutjob attacks on Obama as a Muslim sympathizer are far past pathetic. This goes back to the birther movement, of course, and the frequent irrational attacks of the far right trying to make us think there's a secret agent Muslim in the WH. For God's sake, just stop with the nonsense, ok?

I mean, you want to know what the GOP is about to nominate a guy who the majority of their own party can't stand? Its because the GOP has wasted the last 8 years doing absolutely nothing. About anything. GOP voters sit at home and get told every couple of years that the party stands for fiscal restraint, we need to control spending, we need to work on smarter, simpler, business regulation. So they vote for them.

Then what do they get? Transparently partisan committee meetings, like a dozen of them, to try to blame Obama or Clinton for every bad thing under the sun. 60 votes to repeal the ACA. Resolutions about this nonsense or that.

You want to know why the GOP is about to get its collective clock cleaned? Its because they promise to deliver on basic conservative ideals, followed by years of wasting everyone's fu$$ing time with crap like this, that's why.
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Good Lord man - talk about the king of all straw man arguments.

This has nothing to do with Muslim sympathy. It has to do with doing your dang job.

I can certainly see not releasing them and I haven't ever suggested he should. If he decides not to I'd like to know that he is 100% aware of every thing in them. Seems like a small expectation right?

If he want's to make a reasoned decision he ought to get all the facts himself rather than be briefed.

It's not like he has to read a book or anything; it's 28 pages. Half-hour tops.

So why isn't he reading it? My guess is he wants plausible deniability. He can now say I have a basic idea of what's in there but if they are released and some specific fact causes trouble he can say he wasn't aware of that specific fact.

Sure he's been "told" what's in there but there's a reason he's not admitting to reading it.

I agree with GV - you get all cranky whenever you guy gets criticized for anything.
 
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#229
#229
carlos86 said:
There's s website that keeps track of how many times Obama goes golfing every year. That's were I got it from.
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If accurate, we have a pathetic excuse for a CIC.

OTOH, the more we keep our politicians away from crafting new law, the better we fair.
 
#230
#230
LG, let's see. The Mullah Obama didn't show up in France for the memorial, but 50 other leaders did. He won't utter the words Islamic terrorism, he's appointed several Muslim's to his cabinet that have questionable connections to extremist.

Speaking of sympathizing.
 
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#232
#232
LouderVol said:
to me the only reason he wouldn't read it is if the decision has already been made. and with him admitting to not knowing what was on the 28 pages it reads to me like he isn't the one making the decision.

and if the decision has been made, by someone else, and he hasn't read it leads me to infer that it will not be released. That way he is not "losing" anything. doesn't matter that he doesn't know because no one else will and no one can call him on it. Now if it was getting out it would look incredibly dumb for him to not know what was on it.

either way he should read it so that he can actually speak on it later. either to condemn or agree with whatever the action is (release or not).

and its 28 pages, its not like we are asking him to review our budget by line item.
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Why read something that you already know about? Or do people really believe he was never briefed on this situation? Either way both sides are dissatisfied and no one knows the real answer except Obama and his advisors
 
#233
#233
Sin City Vol said:
Why read something that you already know about? Or do people really believe he was never briefed on this situation? Either way both sides are dissatisfied and no one knows the real answer except Obama and his advisors
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I do believe we have found the one that gives LG his "likes".......
 
#234
#234
Sin City Vol said:
Why read something that you already know about? Or do people really believe he was never briefed on this situation? Either way both sides are dissatisfied and no one knows the real answer except Obama and his advisors
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uhm maybe to actually know, and not maybe know. IDK why that is such a crazy thought. At worst its 30-1hr of his time gone. At best he learns the truth and it informs his decision. where is the loss?

in any job when you are the boss you have to double check things. even with employees you intrinsically trust. This is probably something you don't want to risk not knowing the full truth of.

i know generally what it takes to make cookies, yet I still want to see the recipe.

*edited to remove any Obama bashing, so that hopefully an actual discussion of the point can be made.
 
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#235
#235
Sin City Vol said:
Why read something that you already know about? Or do people really believe he was never briefed on this situation? Either way both sides are dissatisfied and no one knows the real answer except Obama and his advisors
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Don't you get it? Obama not reading a report from 12 years ago means that he has this enormous blind spot about Middle Eastern terrorism and links to the SA regime. For one thing, once that report was issued, no further investigation was done. He has never been briefed on this. There have been no reports of it. It hasn't even come up in the media or in Congress. since then.

Not at all.
 
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#236
#236
lawgator1 said:
Don't you get it? Obama not reading a report from 12 years ago means that he has this enormous blind spot about Middle Eastern terrorism and links to the SA regime. For one thing, once that report was issued, no further investigation was done. He has never been briefed on this. There have been no reports of it. It hasn't even come up in the media or in Congress. since then.

Not at all.
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Ahhhh now I get it.
 
#237
#237
lawgator1 said:
Don't you get it? Obama not reading a report from 12 years ago means that he has this enormous blind spot about Middle Eastern terrorism and links to the SA regime. For one thing, once that report was issued, no further investigation was done. He has never been briefed on this. There have been no reports of it. It hasn't even come up in the media or in Congress. since then.

Not at all.
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and now that he is about to make a decision on it don't you think he should read it?
 
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#239
#239
LouderVol said:
and now that he is about to make a decision on it don't you think he should read it?
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You realize it was classified by the Bush administration and that its a resolution in Congress to undo that which is raising the issue, right?

Oh, silly me. Of course you don't.

You don't care.
 
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#240
#240
lawgator1 said:
You realize it was classified by the Bush administration and that its a resolution in Congress to undo that which is raising the issue, right?

Oh, silly me. Of course you don't.

You don't care.
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Since when does he care about congress? He's already made changes to the ACA which he legally wasn't allowed to do.
 
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#241
#241
lawgator1 said:
You realize it was classified by the Bush administration and that its a resolution in Congress to undo that which is raising the issue, right?

Oh, silly me. Of course you don't.

You don't care.
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There is absolutely a reason he has chosen not to read or to not admit publicly that he read it.
 
#242
#242
Guys.....Guys.....what LG is saying, is that our POTUS does not have any security clearance to read classified docs.......he CAN"T read the pages.......
 
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#243
#243
volinbham said:
There is absolutely a reason he has chosen not to read or to not admit publicly that he read it.
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What is it?

I'm not disagreeing. I'm just wondering how you would characterize it.

But be careful. If you admit it's because it would harm powerful business interests you are implying that Bush's original decision to make it classified was to protect his own political and business ties....

Now, you'd rather separate that out from Obama, right? I mean, you'd rather say Bush classified it for good reasons, but Obama is doing it for evil, right?

Fits the narrative better to just make it ALL about leaving it classified and NONE about why it was to begin with.
 
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#244
#244
lawgator1 said:
DON'T YOU GET IT???

It doesn't matter whether he does, or does not. The moneyed interests at stake made sure about 10 + years ago that nothing would ever be done about it. That started with Bush and continued under Obama.

Its kind of funny watching all the politicians scramble about what to do about it. Sure, the New York politicians are going to support release. HRC did, but only after she realized, oh crap, I'm running in New York.

Everyone else is paralyzed because they know what the consequences could be for themselves, politically, if it was disclosed that we knew long ago that Saudis had financed some part of 9/11. And if it came out that it was knowingly?

As a regular Joe, I want to know. And if some members of the family financed it and did so knowing it was a plot against us, then I say we find those f'ers and bring them to justice. But that's me, as regular Joe. If you are running the country, how on Earth can you ever make a good decision on this?

So don't try to just make this some anti-Obama bullsh!t, like you always do. The see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil on this started long before him. Be real. Its more like guys like Cheney and Halliburton and their ilk that you need to be complaining about.
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Yeah, God forbid he should read them and take some sort of stance on the issue. Wouldn't be in keeping with his feckless presidency. He couldn't care less about this country. It is all about him, and he has enough cheerleaders around him that he actually believes he has been a good president.
 
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#245
#245
No one is arguing any of the shat you are throwing at the fan LG......he should read the dang pages, plain and simple...
 
#248
#248
lawgator1 said:
What is it?

I'm not disagreeing. I'm just wondering how you would characterize it.

But be careful. If you admit it's because it would harm powerful business interests you are implying that Bush's original decision to make it classified was to protect his own political and business ties....

Now, you'd rather separate that out from Obama, right? I mean, you'd rather say Bush classified it for good reasons, but Obama is doing it for evil, right?

Fits the narrative better to just make it ALL about leaving it classified and NONE about why it was to begin with.
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None of what you posted is what I'm suggesting.

I'm not commenting on whether or not it should be declassified or powerful business interests or Muslims. I've stated repeatedly that there may be very good reasons to keep it fully classified.

This is a hot potato that Obama has to deal with. To make a reasoned decision what to do and to know all the conclusions of the committee the natural action would be to read it. It certainly can't take too much time or effort to do so. One ought to know the full contents of something being considered for declassification or that may be leaked.

If he claims not to have read it he has plausible deniability on certain particulars that exist in the document that may be revealed through someone else's doing.

So he's either not willing to take the time to read 28 pages both to assist in his decision making and so he knows all before meeting with the Saudi's or he's providing himself cover.

It's not about him vs Bush, him and Muslims, or him being responsible for the classification.

Can you provide one good reason not to read it?
 
#250
#250
I don't know if it's been posted, but if it has, my apologies

Saudi Arabia is threatening economic meltdown to the US if the US allows them to be held accountable on the 9/11 attacks...(lawsuits)
 
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