Scramble for Africa 2.0

#129
#129
LouderVol said:
Why are you ok with outside involvement this time Ras?
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I'm not for outside involvement. France and the US are the ones getting involved in Niger's internal affairs. And on the regional level, it is understandable why countries that border Niger would have an interest in stability. It's almost like coups and uprisings in a neighboring country can have ramifications in the region. It really is funny how that works.

Maybe the West Africans should be left to handle their own regional security issues and France and the US should mind their own business. If they are needed, they will be invited.
 
#130
#130
I also find it interesting that the US would demand the democratically elected leader of Niger be put back in power, but haven't said a word about Viktor Yanukovich or Imran Khan be put back in power...
 
#131
#131
Rasputin_Vol said:
I also find it interesting that the US would demand the democratically elected leader of Niger be put back in power, but haven't said a word about Viktor Yanukovich or Imran Khan be put back in power...
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And absolutely nobody is shocked that you post this tripe. Yanukovych was removed by a legal and valid democratic process by the Ukrainian parliament. And he in fact willingly signed the documents to vacate office before bugging out to live in Russia as the bald dwarf’s lap dog.
 
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#132
#132
Rasputin_Vol said:
I'm not for outside involvement. France and the US are the ones getting involved in Niger's internal affairs. And on the regional level, it is understandable why countries that border Niger would have an interest in stability. It's almost like coups and uprisings in a neighboring country can have ramifications in the region. It really is funny how that works.

Maybe the West Africans should be left to handle their own regional security issues and France and the US should mind their own business. If they are needed, they will be invited.
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and Russia.....Wagner showing up all over the place. been there for a while according to the locals.

so regional stability matters, but not global stability? Its not like France or the US are only getting involved because of the coup. the french have been there for a while trading for Uranium. stability and the coup matter to them.

maybe the french and the US have a gentlemen's agreement with Niger's rebels about maintaining the status quo, and these rebels are purposefully acting in a warlike manner to threaten France and the US. If the rebels would just abide by the gentlemen's agreement there wouldn't be any violence.
 
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#133
#133
LouderVol said:
and Russia.....Wagner showing up all over the place. been there for a while according to the locals.
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And you didn't read a word I wrote.
Maybe the West Africans should be left to handle their own regional security issues and France and the US should mind their own business. If they are needed, they will be invited.
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LouderVol said:
so regional stability matters, but not global stability? Its not like France or the US are only getting involved because of the coup. the french have been there for a while trading for Uranium. stability and the coup matter to them.
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1. Neither Niger or Ukraine or Taiwan or any other non-nuclear country is of global importance.
2. It's interesting that you call theft "trading". Not only were the French paying far below market value for minerals, but they were paying in francs, not euros.

LouderVol said:
maybe the french and the US have a gentlemen's agreement with Niger's rebels about maintaining the status quo, and these rebels are purposefully acting in a warlike manner to threaten France and the US. If the rebels would just abide by the gentlemen's agreement there wouldn't be any violence.
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Any agreement with the US/The West involved is going to be lopsided in their favor. Let's stop gaslighting.
 
#134
#134
Maybe she should have brought some cookies...

Top US diplomat Victoria Nuland meets Niger coup leaders for 'difficult' talks and is barred from seeing deposed President Mohamed Bazoum

"They were quite firm about how they want to proceed, and it is not in support of the constitution of Niger,' she gravely said.

The accomplished diplomat, who in the past served as assistant secretary of state for European and Eurasian affairs and as the US's permanent representative to NATO, said the two-hour meeting with top military officials was 'extremely frank and at times quite difficult.'

They told her to kick rocks and keep her money...
 
#135
#135
Rasputin_Vol said:
I also find it interesting that the US would demand the democratically elected leader of Niger be put back in power, but haven't said a word about Viktor Yanukovich or Imran Khan be put back in power...
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Yanukovich and Khan were both removed according to their own laws. and without the use of military forces to place them under arrest.

Bazoum was not removed according to their own laws.

Your ECOWAS team is echoing what the US/France is saying, or vice versa, I don't which said it first.
 
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#136
#136
Rasputin_Vol said:
And you didn't read a word I wrote.



1. Neither Niger or Ukraine or Taiwan or any other non-nuclear country is of global importance.
2. It's interesting that you call theft "trading". Not only were the French paying far below market value for minerals, but they were paying in francs, not euros.


Any agreement with the US/The West involved is going to be lopsided in their favor. Let's stop gaslighting.
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What happened to Pakistan and Khan? You realize you were making yet another inconsistent argument and dropped them while moving goalposts?

Wagner was helping the rebels and were operating out of Mali while destabilizing Niger. Mali is one of the few neighbors who doesn't want Bazoum reinstalled. I think the math is pretty easy to see.

Niger is the largest supplier of uranium to the EU. This is after the EU has minimized its reliance on Russian fuel, pretty easy to see the Wagner connection.
Ukraine supplies a large amount of grain to the world.
Taiwan supplies a large amount of the high end chips EVERYONE uses.

each one of those plays a key part in the global stability. And if the global stability tanks that is going to drag in a whole lot of different regions into the mess.

They were paying below market value because France discovered it and helped develop the mines. Its a pretty standard arrangement, France put in all the early capital and risk, and in return is paying a reduced rate. They have also been working with the Nigeriens, had to look up what to call people from Niger vs Nigeria, since 2006 to increase the amount the Nigerien government keeps from the profits. and they were very close to another deal which would have increased their profit again, while still favoring France, before this coup. The Nigeriens would have been able to keep more from the sales to other countries while France's costs stayed the same.
 
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#137
#137
#138
#138
LouderVol said:
Yanukovich and Khan were both removed according to their own laws. and without the use of military forces to place them under arrest.
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WTF difference does this make?
Secret Pakistan Cable Documents U.S. Pressure to Remove Imran Khan




LouderVol said:
Bazoum was not removed according to their own laws.
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It is no different than the "solution" the US was pushing in Syria to get Assad out of power. So we hide behind lawfare in some cases and when lawfare and color revolutions fail, then we resort to direct (or proxy) military conflict.
 
#139
#139
Rasputin_Vol said:
WTF difference does this make?
Secret Pakistan Cable Documents U.S. Pressure to Remove Imran Khan






It is no different than the "solution" the US was pushing in Syria to get Assad out of power. So we hide behind lawfare in some cases and when lawfare and color revolutions fail, then we resort to direct (or proxy) military conflict.
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except you know in the Niger case we are AGAINST the "color revolution". and so are most of the surrounding nations. so this is just another case of you flip flopping around however you need to, to cast the US in a bad light. You don't hold any constant except that whatever the US does MUST be wrong, even if it directly conflicts with your previous arguments.

and we have been over the Nuland phone call a dozen times. what specific part of that phone was nefarious? Give me a time stamp, give me a direct quote that is ethically wrong, or nefarious somehow. I have listened to it a dozen times and never heard anything shocking in there.

the US ambassador to Ukraine was talking with his boss about the reality on the ground in Ukraine. Thats it. They even mention working with your boy Yanukovych, and him knowing what they are doing. They talk about a "Big 3" who are having their own conversations outside of the US with some "heated debates". None of the guys mentioned really held power. and they even discuss the Russia meddling, so the phone call proves what came out later, that Yanukovych was working with the Russians, and not working FOR Ukraine. it sounds like any corporate phone I have ever been a part of. Employee discussing with their boss what is going on, and who all they need to talk to get things done. and even the eff the EU comment was just avoiding dragging them into the conversation, and that really they just needed to get The Big 3 together to finish things up. you could take that phone conversation and apply it to any business in the world.

and what the eff do you think that cable shows us? You constantly complain about the US not being diplomatic. And then you hold up examples of the US using diplomacy as wrong too, yet another case of you flip flopping to make the US look bad. Carrot and Stick are always the considerations in every diplomatic negotiation. but of course you have to make it out to some evil scheme only used by the US. Thats all diplomacy is, relations between nations, when new items come up you are either going to improve relations, or make them worse. The Ukraine war was a new item, and the US was pointing out how Pakistans current stance was hurting relations, and that they could be improved. What else could you possibly expect/want the US to do? Again the cable clearly shows that Russia is doing the exact same thing with Khan, offering him carrot or stick to stay neutral.
 
#140
#140
The ECOWAS has announced that it will be intervening to restore constitutional order in Niger.
 
#147
#147
newokie03 said:
Shouldn't this be Africa's problem? Why would Vlad care since it isn't his country? Your double standards are on full display for everyone to see.
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What double standard are you thinking you are highlighting? I don't understand where you are trying to go with this.
 
#148
#148
Rasputin_Vol said:
What double standard are you thinking you are highlighting? I don't understand where you are trying to go with this.
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Seriously? You constantly gripe about the West helping Ukraine, and yet is ok for Russia/USSR (want to be's) to meddle in countries internal disputes on an entirely different continent? Your double standard is just incredible to observe.
 
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#149
#149
newokie03 said:
Seriously? You constantly gripe about the West helping Ukraine, and yet is ok for Russia/USSR (want to be's) to meddle in countries internal disputes on an entirely different continent? Your double standard is just incredible to observe.
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Correct me if I’m wrong, but did Russia overthrow the Nigerien president?

Also, I’m an American. In my lifetime (and before), we have not had a successful intervention in these remote s#!thole countries. So I think we need to step away from these interventions and focus on ourselves and bring some freedom and prosperity here at home. If Russia wants to insert itself in these interventions, that is their business as long as they are being asked to intervene.
 
#150
#150
Rasputin_Vol said:
Correct me if I’m wrong, but did Russia overthrow the Nigerien president?

Also, I’m an American. In my lifetime (and before), we have not had a successful intervention in these remote s#!thole countries. So I think we need to step away from these interventions and focus on ourselves and bring some freedom and prosperity here at home. If Russia wants to insert itself in these interventions, that is their business as long as they are being asked to intervene.
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yes, Wagner has been present for months, causing enough instability and damage to the government troops that the coup was able to be successful.
 
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