September 10, 2024 Presidential Debate Thread. (Insert snarky subtitles here.)

[volbound1700]

We're not the world police. We obviously must pick and choose our battles.

Oh the irony... as stated, we can't afford to save Ukraine. Honestly, even if we pulled support, I think Ukraine would hold out and not get 100% conquered.

 

[MontyPython]

US support (outside of intel) hasn't been as impactful as you think. It has really been more about Russian's incompetence than anything we have done that is aiding Ukraine. Russia (surprise, surprise as this is a repeated theme in history) clearly doesn't have the military logistics to sustain large offensives.

Laughable statement. Disconnected from reality.

But if you truly believe it, provide a link.

 

[volbound1700]

Laughable statement. Disconnected from reality.

But if you truly believe it, provide a link.

Our own government acknowledge we didn't get them resources until 9 months into the war (after the impactful battle of Kiev).

But then again, you are the troll that the USA has a ton of 1980s equipment to send that will help Ukraine and that we can magically teleport this equipment to Ukraine with 0 cost to us.

 

[DaddyChad]

Dude. Are you suggesting that if the US stops supporting Ukraine that they will be able to fend off Russia?

Come on, man.

Other NATO members have to do their part financially in that war. Do I want Russia to take over Ukraine? Of course not. No one wants that.

 

[hog88]

Really? Hmmm.... so we can't afford to give Ukraine our 1980s-level equipment like a couple more hundred Bradleys, for instance? I mean we've got literally thousands of them sitting in equipment yards rusting...

Give? No, we should be selling that hardware to Europe and letting them give it to Ukraine. It's true that they are of little value to us militarily but there is value in scrap and that is better than paying the shipping expense and giving it away.

But I forgot, you are a disciple of Alphred Marshal and believer in the Rothchilds Formula.

 

[volbound1700]

Give? No, we should be selling that hardware to Europe and letting them give it to Ukraine. It's true that they are of little value to us militarily but there is value in scrap and that is better than paying the shipping expense and giving it away.

But I forgot, you are a disciple of Alphred Marshal and believer in the Rothchilds Formula.

Also a lot of the 1980s equipment that is still in good quality has value for certain situations. A lot of what he is talking about would be located at National Guard depots. I pass by 2 regularly and they have trucks, hummers, some tanks, construction equipment, etc. just sitting out there rusting. I assume that is perhaps what is being discussed and sent over. Although this equipment seems to have no value at first, it is still great for counter-insurgency, building fortifications, etc.

It seems like Ukraine has been getting a lot of SAM equipment.

 

[tvolsfan]

Also, it must be said that not helping Ukraine makes nuclear escalation more likely, not less. Russia is not going to use nukes because their existence isn't seriously under threat, and no matter what the Kremlin claims, they know that.

However, if we don't help Ukraine (or worse, don't come to the aid of NATO allies), the message will be clear that the only way for smaller countries to guarantee their own security is to build nuclear weapons of their own.

 

[hog88]

Gladly.

When one country invades another sovereign country, the question becomes do we intervene or not?

You would choose the Neville Chamberlain approach and just give Ukraine away. But, as history has shown, land-grabbing dictators don't stop...

That is some weak BS right there. Come on give us the comparisons between the war in Ukraine and WWII. How does Russian military capability compare to late 1930s Germany vs GB, France, Poland, Germany and the rest of western Europe because if you cannot make that comparison then there is no comparison between this war and WWII.

 

[hog88]

So you're against humanitarian aid to Ukraine? That's pretty ****ed up.

The military aid we provide them is largely materiel built here in the United States. When we draw-down on materiel, our defense industry then builds more - providing jobs here in the United States.

And increased inflation for us. Yay!

 

[hog88]

Also, it must be said that not helping Ukraine makes nuclear escalation more likely, not less. Russia is not going to use nukes because their existence isn't seriously under threat, and no matter what the Kremlin claims, they know that.

However, if we don't help Ukraine (or worse, don't come to the aid of NATO allies), the message will be clear that the only way for smaller countries to guarantee their own security is to build nuclear weapons of their own.

That's ludicrous. Our aid to Ukraine increases the threat of nuclear war.

 

[PEPPERJAX]

That is some weak BS right there. Come on give us the comparisons between the war in Ukraine and WWII. How does Russian military capability compare to late 1930s Germany vs GB, France, Poland, Germany and the rest of western Europe because if you cannot make that comparison then there is no comparison between this war and WWII.

This right here. If Russia had anything close to the German military of the 30s, then Ukraine would have been taken over in a month or two. The Germans conquered France in a matter of weeks.

 

[hog88]

This right here. If Russia had anything close to the Military of Germany did during that time, then Ukraine would have been taken over in a month or two. The Germans conquered France in a matter of weeks.

And anyone trying to compare the war in Ukraine to WWI is ignorant of history.

 

[midnight orange]

Sounds like a 1930’s attitude, to me.

Its always 1939 in neocon land.

 

[hog88]

Its always 1939 in neocon land.

The new term should be libocon

 

[utvolpj]

Also, it must be said that not helping Ukraine makes nuclear escalation more likely, not less. Russia is not going to use nukes because their existence isn't seriously under threat, and no matter what the Kremlin claims, they know that.

However, if we don't help Ukraine (or worse, don't come to the aid of NATO allies), the message will be clear that the only way for smaller countries to guarantee their own security is to build nuclear weapons of their own.

That's ridiculous. If that were true there would be wars all over. Your buying into the idea that Putin will keep going which has never been anything but am excuse to keep wasting time and money in Ukraine

The us is giving weapons to attack Russia. That makes all of us less safe

 

[LouderVol]

Truth is a thing ,tRump negotiated the Afgan withdrawal.
You must get your figures from DJT, illegal imigrants don't get a fat check.
Biden is president everyday

Trump did negotiate a date, but it wasn't the one that was used.

he negotiated a May withdrawal date. Biden pushed it back to 9/11 of that year for symbolic reasons. then pulled it forward to August.

 

[volbound1700]

This right here. If Russia had anything close to the German military of the 30s, then Ukraine would have been taken over in a month or two. The Germans conquered France in a matter of weeks.

I wonder if Germany today, if they put their mind to it and focus on it, could defeat Russia 1v1 in a war.

 

[just bob]

Thai had nothing to do with the unstable fitting the economy is on right now. Then there's the ridiculous push to ww3 as we continue to supply attacks on Russia. This admin is a disaster yet since want to see it continue

Yeah, we don't need to be fighting Russia or China let alone Russia AND China.

 

[swampfoxfan]

Give? No, we should be selling that hardware to Europe and letting them give it to Ukraine. It's true that they are of little value to us militarily but there is value in scrap and that is better than paying the shipping expense and giving it away.

But I forgot, you are a disciple of Alphred Marshal and believer in the Rothchilds Formula.

I can endorse the first paragraph but then you go f it up with an insult, why is respectful debate beyond you? If you hope to change my mind passing me off isn't going to help.

 

[swampfoxfan]

That is some weak BS right there. Come on give us the comparisons between the war in Ukraine and WWII. How does Russian military capability compare to late 1930s Germany vs GB, France, Poland, Germany and the rest of western Europe because if you cannot make that comparison then there is no comparison between this war and WWII.

Germany vs Germany hmmm

 

[LouderVol]

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you realize the Brits and French gave the Poles weapons and money like we are doing with Ukraine...

so its not like you have a consistent argument. you don't want to the US to be like the 1930s Europe, while also arguing the US should take the same actions as 1930s Europe.

 

[Orange_Vol1321]

The debate thread has turned into the Ukraine vs Russia war thread??

 

[LouderVol]

Venezuela recently invaded Guyana but you didn't hear a pep from us. Sudan is invading South Sudan. There are situations like this going on all over the place.

when? there is tension but I haven't seen anything crossing borders.

 

[PEPPERJAX]

I wonder if Germany today, if they put their mind to it and focus on it, could defeat Russia 1v1 in a war.

The Germans still receive goods from Russia right?

 

[InVOLuntary]

You could start by acknowledging his delusion.

Go easy now, he's turned a leaf. He's an independent.