Serious QB discussion

[barney]

I think if we (somehow) win the next two weeks and Milton gets his game right, we stick with him through the year. If we go 1-1 or 0-2 through Kentucky and Milton continues to struggle/regress, then Nico gets the start for Uconn to get him ready for Georgia.

 

[EZE]

That's such a misleadingly simple way of looking at it. The great coaches (e.g., Saban) have no issue playing musical chair at QB until they find the right fit as determined by the QB's performance in actual games. The "go with who practices best" or whatever would have cost Saban a ring for the 2017 season. What about Georgia in 2021? Little ole walk-on Stetson Bennet came in and played much better than the hyped transfer from USC that won the starting job in the offseason. Am I to think that Georgia rolls to a ring that year with JT Daniels holding back an otherwise great team? What about last year when Dabo finally accepted the limits of DJ and replaced him against UNC? I'm not even saying that Cade has ended up being much better than DJ, but Dabo had the right mindset to at least give him a shot. There's numerous examples of that happening. The many of us who want to see Milton benched are merely wanting Heupel to follow those examples.

I guess you are right and none of those coaches consulted with their assistants and determined who was best to start….

Seriously. If Nico is better, we will see him shortly after Alabama. And maybe during.

 

[EZE]

But they have only seen Nico in practice except for a couple of handoffs in mop up games against what be considered as good high schools.

WTH do you think they do during practice?

 

[BigALWiLson]

If "running the offense correctly" is a standard for playing time, then why is Milton in the game? Is the entirety of Volnation supposed to seriously believe the #2 ranked player in the 2022 class can't manage a 50% completion rate with only 100 yards? Stop it. Let's be realistic here.

Cute post. Obviously Milton is struggling. We all agree. I believe the staff has better credentials than you and me. They get paid to coach for a living. I do not. Am certain you don't either. The passing game has struggled due timing and inability to create seperation. Hands have been a factor as well as Milton being off on some throws. Some of that has to do with pressure, some bad reads, and poor route running. There is a whole lot more to throwing a ball into tight windows than some of you realize.

 

[volfan102455]

We only scored 13 points on offense. Yes, we obviously needed to. I would argue you didn’t watch the game

You would be wrong as I did watch the game.

It is a team sport. The final score is based on total points scored regardless of where they came from. They all count.

 

[VOLINVONORE]

WTH do you think they do during practice?

Don’t you know the difference between practice and an SEC football game?

 

[JHuntVols]

This is pretty easy to distinguish, Heupel's decision to stick with Hooker and Saban's decision to go to Tua were informed decisions based on them having seen all existing data (i.e. all the practices, games, knowing fully the team chemistry situation and it's morale), at best you armchair second guessers are only going to be basing your takes on a miniscule fraction of the data available to the coaches. While coaches can certainly be wrong, I am generally always going to assign you, the anonymous internet poster a higher burden of proof in explaining the rationale and justification for your point of view. The armchairs do not stand on equal footing with the coaching staff in terms of the presumptive value of their opinions.

That's a lot of big words to be entirely missing the point of us "armchair" people. You listed practices, games, etc. as to equivocate all of them when evaluating a player's success. Practice, chemistry, etc. are merely trying to get the player(s) in the best position to perform in a live game. As a result, live games are the measurement of any player's success; all of us have access to those "data points" too. What you're looking for is that Heupel is extremely more likely a better interpreter of the nuances of each play or player. Let's not pretend, however, that it requires 25 years of first hand experience on the sideline to know that "hey, I think the QB is supposed to NOT consistently throw the ball over the receiver's head on fly routes OR behind the player on simple slant routes!" Or my favorite, "IDK guys... a little over 100 yards in the air correlated with a win. Therefore, Milton must be doing something right! Go team!" The disconnect between the thought of Heupel's previous success but also his reluctance to move on from Milton is what causes us "armchair" folks to question why that is the case! We're merely pointing out the real evidence is now overwhelming; the tape and the stats suggest that we undoubtedly win despite Milton's play. The appeal to Heupel's authority is not satisfactory to us simply because we know from history in much more riskier situations other coaches have decided to bench the poor performer in favor of an unproven player. We're merely asking for proof instead of his presumptions. Play Nico!

 

[Vol8188]

You would be wrong as I did watch the game.

It is a team sport. The final score is based on total points scored regardless of where they came from. They all count.

It is a team sport. A team sport that I’m not sure you understand. Our staff would have 100% loved to have had the ability to throw the ball and have scored more points. No one wants any game to be that close. Because if you place enough 1 possession games, you’ll lose plenty of them

 

[volbound1700]

I don’t understand your point lol

You or whoever the post that I was responding to (too lazy to look up) cited that Milton hasn't lost us a game yet. That is incorrect. Granted, it was a team effort (or lack of effort) against Florida.

 

[cgrish]

We have a qb the coaches are afraid to let throw. That's preposterous. Especially an sec team with championship aspirations. Milton is a qb that isn't good enough to throw a football. Come on. You know how ridiculous that is? How can you not make a change?

I think we need to make a change but not until we play a weaker team, I don't think Nico needs to start against Bama, Ky or Mo. If he had been given some more play time against our weaker non conference games with the 1's still on the field I think we would be in much better shape.

 

[BigALWiLson]

There was enough blame to go around in the Florida debacle. Defense didn't show up and the OL was putrid. Milton has made his share of mistakes but the loss at Florida isn't just on him. Just like the wins are not just him.

 

[cgrish]

And a Tackle and 3 wide receivers. And Hendon. If we could of had last years offense with this year's defense.

Our over all better was pointing to our dl as well as whole defense. And yes if we had this years defense, with last years offense, we could have won a natty.

 

[JHuntVols]

Cute post. Obviously Milton is struggling. We all agree. I believe the staff has better credentials than you and me. They get paid to coach for a living. I do not. Am certain you don't either. The passing game has struggled due timing and inability to create seperation. Hands have been a factor as well as Milton being off on some throws. Some of that has to do with pressure, some bad reads, and poor route running. There is a whole lot more to throwing a ball into tight windows than some of you realize.

That's true. I mean Butch Jones got paid to coach here too, and that's an incredible example of credentials. Oh that's right... he got fired for incompetency. That little tangent of interdependency in team sports do nothing to explain Milton's consistently poor accuracy when the receivers and offensive line do their job. In fact, you not only have the problem of explaining those situations, but you also have to convince us that a potential replacement would manage to do worse than Milton. Milton is at his ceiling; his number one replacement could be using those reps to get better.

 

[BigALWiLson]

That's true. I mean Butch Jones got paid to coach here too, and that's an incredible example of credentials. Oh that's right... he got fired for incompetency. That little tangent of interdependency in team sports do nothing to explain Milton's consistently poor accuracy when the receivers and offensive line do their job. In fact, you not only have the problem of explaining those situations, but you also have to convince us that a potential replacement would manage to do worse than Milton. Milton is at his ceiling; his number one replacement could be using those reps to get better.

We had stupid admins running the asylum when Butch was hired, along with Dooley and Pruitt. They found a way out of the Pruitt debacle. However there was a price that was paid. Do you think putting a kid who is not physically ready to compete at an SEC level, who is still learning blocking assignments and the playbook in against Bama or GA a good decision ? I question Jones for doing that to JG.... Remember the damn hits he took ? Yeah lets do that to Nico.

 

[JHuntVols]

We had stupid admins running the asylum when Butch was hired, along with Dooley and Pruitt. They found a way out of the Pruitt debacle. However there was a price that was paid. Do you think putting a kid who is not physically ready to compete at an SEC level, who is still learning blocking assignments and the playbook in against Bama or GA a good decision ? I question Jones for doing that to JG.... Remember the damn hits he took ? Yeah lets do that to Nico.

Oh I agree to not have Nico's first start be at Tuscaloosa. I personally thought Florida should have been Milton's last game as a Tennessee QB, but that obviously did not happen. Of course, I remember me posting in a discord server after the first game that Milton has not progressed hardly at all over the entire offseason. I personally saw all I need to see during that game. My personal preference now would be to let Milton go to Alabama to be the dude who hands off the ball to our awesome run offense... our best hope to win that game is to make it go exactly like the TAMU game. I'd then let Nico use UConn as a tune up game for his first start. It's all Nico for the rest of the year after that.

Edit: I think the standard of an acceptable "body" of a QB even in the NFL has been drastically lowered. The 6'4", 240lbs prototype is nice to have but not necessary anymore; the smaller QBs can have success given the prevalence of the short passing game and rules protecting QBs.

 

[Big Al Orange]

We had stupid admins running the asylum when Butch was hired, along with Dooley and Pruitt. They found a way out of the Pruitt debacle. However there was a price that was paid. Do you think putting a kid who is not physically ready to compete at an SEC level, who is still learning blocking assignments and the playbook in against Bama or GA a good decision ? I question Jones for doing that to JG.... Remember the damn hits he took ? Yeah lets do that to Nico.

Nico isn’t our only option. Let’s try Moore. Last we saw of him he looked PDG.

 

[TheVolsFrog]

So if we beat bama Sat and are 6-1, yall still want to bench Joe and start Nico for KY or let say we beat KY with Joe and get to UConn 7-1 and bench Joe. Start Nico and we lose to UConn every talking head will be saying what was TN thinking.
At this point like I said before, take one side of the field out of play for Joe. Two reads for Joe, if not there run and get a few yards. No standing and going through all the progression, run Joe more and also starting going to Warren on short slants. Our running game is more than good. Maybe throw to RB's also

 

[volfan102455]

It is a team sport. A team sport that I’m not sure you understand. Our staff would have 100% loved to have had the ability to throw the ball and have scored more points. No one wants any game to be that close. Because if you place enough 1 possession games, you’ll lose plenty of them

Whatever - you obviously feel the need to talk down to me for some reason - I guess because you disagree and can't find any valid counterpoint.

I'm not a coach and don't pretend to be unlike you and many others on this board who believe they know how to coach. If you are that good, I propose you send your resume to the AD and tell him why you can do better than CJH, who is 16-3 over the last 19 games. I do however know football very well from a spectator standpoint as I have been a fan of the sport and Tennessee for well over 50 years. Seen many of the games like what happened on Saturday in my lifetime.

There are going to be games like this - you do what you need to do to win. In reality the A&M game was no different than the Bama game of last year where it took last second heroics and a missed Bama field goal for us to win the game or the hail mary play at Georgia. Sometimes the offense has to win it for you and sometimes the defense has to make the stop.

 

[volfan102455]

So if we beat bama Sat and are 6-1, yall still want to bench Joe and start Nico for KY or let say we beat KY with Joe and get to UConn 7-1 and bench Joe. Start Nico and we lose to UConn every talking head will be saying what was TN thinking.
At this point like I said before, take one side of the field out of play for Joe. Two reads for Joe, if not there run and get a few yards. No standing and going through all the progression, run Joe more and also starting going to Warren on short slants. Our running game is more than good. Maybe throw to RB's also

I've always thought Joe, with his physical size, should absolutely run more.

 

[volfan102455]

Those of you who are saying "play Nico", if he started the Bama game and was overwhelmed leading to a quick 14 or more deficit, you all would be the first to say "what the heck is the coach thinking starting him at Bama"?

I wonder if the folks in Texas are preaching the "play Manning" verbiage like this.

 

[JHuntVols]

Those of you who are saying "play Nico", if he started the Bama game and was overwhelmed leading to a quick 14 or more deficit, you all would be the first to say "what the heck is the coach thinking starting him at Bama"?

I wonder if the folks in Texas are preaching the "play Manning" verbiage like this.

I think it's more likely than not we lose at AL regardless of who plays, unless something crazy happens like Nico starting AND him channeling his inner 2022 Hooker. I'm probably one of the few of us on the Nico side that would greatly prefer him to not have his first collegiate start at Alabama. Saying that, I'd be willing to bet a considerable amount of money he'd do no worse than Milton even if they did throw him in there. I'm not sure what game others have been watching, but the idea that Nico couldn't hand off to the backs, throw screens or quick slants, or the other basic play calls we're seeing is a bit ridiculous.

 

[Vol8188]

Whatever - you obviously feel the need to talk down to me for some reason - I guess because you disagree and can't find any valid counterpoint.

I'm not a coach and don't pretend to be unlike you and many others on this board who believe they know how to coach. If you are that good, I propose you send your resume to the AD and tell him why you can do better than CJH, who is 16-3 over the last 19 games. I do however know football very well from a spectator standpoint as I have been a fan of the sport and Tennessee for well over 50 years. Seen many of the games like what happened on Saturday in my lifetime.

There are going to be games like this - you do what you need to do to win. In reality the A&M game was no different than the Bama game of last year where it took last second heroics and a missed Bama field goal for us to win the game or the hail mary play at Georgia. Sometimes the offense has to win it for you and sometimes the defense has to make the stop.

Lmfao me: the staff for sure wishes we had a better passing game and didn’t have to play a one possession game that we barely won.

The well thought out/reasonable response I receive: stop pretending you’re a coach! If you’re so good and can do so much better, why don’t you send the Ad your resume!

 

[BigALWiLson]

Lmfao me: the staff for sure wishes we had a better passing game and didn’t have to play a one possession game that we barely won.

The well thought out/reasonable response I receive: stop pretending you’re a coach! If you’re so good and can do so much better, why don’t you send the Ad your resume!

There is no reasonable response except this.

You are a fan, a ticket holder and maybe a graduate or alumni at best. Heupel doesn't answer to any of us. He answers to the AD who answers to the board of trustees. Big Money donors etc. No one here knows why we do not change QBs. Easy to sit on a couch or in the stands and say play this guy or that guy. It's also easy to be loud and b1tch and moan because the sky is falling, keep being loud. Hell get louder, don't go to games, don't watch on tv. We have 6 games left and a bowl game. Month after we get spring. Then months after we get another season. I prefer to enjoy it other than constantly b1tching about something I have no control over. Enjoy your night

 

[unfrozencvmanvol]

That's a lot of big words to be entirely missing the point of us "armchair" people. You listed practices, games, etc. as to equivocate all of them when evaluating a player's success. Practice, chemistry, etc. are merely trying to get the player(s) in the best position to perform in a live game. As a result, live games are the measurement of any player's success; all of us have access to those "data points" too. What you're looking for is that Heupel is extremely more likely a better interpreter of the nuances of each play or player. Let's not pretend, however, that it requires 25 years of first hand experience on the sideline to know that "hey, I think the QB is supposed to NOT consistently throw the ball over the receiver's head on fly routes OR behind the player on simple slant routes!" Or my favorite, "IDK guys... a little over 100 yards in the air correlated with a win. Therefore, Milton must be doing something right! Go team!" The disconnect between the thought of Heupel's previous success but also his reluctance to move on from Milton is what causes us "armchair" folks to question why that is the case! We're merely pointing out the real evidence is now overwhelming; the tape and the stats suggest that we undoubtedly win despite Milton's play. The appeal to Heupel's authority is not satisfactory to us simply because we know from history in much more riskier situations other coaches have decided to bench the poor performer in favor of an unproven player. We're merely asking for proof instead of his presumptions. Play Nico!

The question is not whether Milton is good, it's whether he's currently better than Nico. You have zero data on how Nico is currently performing in practice and what the team chemistry/morale situation is behind the scenes so your opinion on whether to put Nico in is essentially worthless. Heupel on the other hand has all the data and appears to believe the uber skinny true freshman is not going to improve us at quarterback against the meat of our schedule. I realize that is disappointing to those hoping there is a quick fix at quarterback, but over the course of SEC history, thinking a true freshman is basically meat for the grinder in our conference has been a sound proposition much more often than not.

 

[orangemadam]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that Peyton started games about this same time
of the season and he did alright for a true freshman.