Serious QB discussion

#401
#401
JHuntVols said:
The defense of Milton is incredibly odd to me. His ceiling is evidently Hooker's first year at VT, which is at best mediocre. It's also telling his ceiling is that of a first year player in an offense that surely isn't as prolific as Heupel's has been throughout all his stops. His completion percentage through the years is much more similar to JG than it is to Hooker.

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I ran through the game logs to drill down to games with a minimum of 25 pass attempts, and he's managed to produce on a level again more similar to JG than Hooker. I am to believe that the number 2 ranked player nationally in the 2022 class isn't capable of playing to a level of Milton or JG? I doubt anyone can convince me of that.

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How many practices have you observed? If Nico is better, he will be starting soon.
 
#402
#402
unfrozencvmanvol said:
That's why I said "as long as we are in the divisional hunt", acknowledging that we are still in the hunt. No need to move on to Nico in these circumstances unless Nico was clearly better, and in the coaches informed opinion (versus the many uninformed opinions on VN), Nico is not clearly better at this point. You don't give up on the season and start preparing for the next season as long as you still have a shot to win something of note. It isn't fair to the upperclassmen/seniors.
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Great post. 100% spot on!
 
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#403
#403
EZE said:
How many practices have you observed? If Nico is better, he will be starting soon.
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None... but I've observed too many actual games of Milton playing. If all you can point to is practice drills or scrimmages, then that is immediately overruled by a) the eye test and b) the actual games played. I'm not even saying Nico is necessarily better than Milton, but I'll argue until I'm blue in the face that to think that Nico as the #2 player in the 2022 class is so raw as to not perform as "good" as Milton is historically ridiculous. Also, are you just going to sweep years of actual games played under the rug? Milton has shown marginal improvement, statistically speaking, since his first chance at Michigan. The eye test is even more damning to me; he more importantly looks noticeably any different than his Michigan years.
 
#404
#404
unfrozencvmanvol said:
That's why I said "as long as we are in the divisional hunt", acknowledging that we are still in the hunt. No need to move on to Nico in these circumstances unless Nico was clearly better, and in the coaches informed opinion (versus the many uninformed opinions on VN), Nico is not clearly better at this point. You don't give up on the season and start preparing for the next season as long as you still have a shot to win something of note. It isn't fair to the upperclassmen/seniors.
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Too bad you don't have a time machine. You can go back to 2022 and save Heupel from making the horrible mistake of continuing to play Hooker after Milton was ready to go again. Now I wouldn't necessarily blame you for not doing the following given the team, but you could also go back to 2018 and save Saban from making the horrible mistake of benching Hurts for the unproven freshman in Tua in the national championship of all games! What were those two coaches thinking?!?!?!?!?!
 
#405
#405
JHuntVols said:
None... but I've observed too many actual games of Milton playing. If all you can point to is practice drills or scrimmages, then that is immediately overruled by a) the eye test and b) the actual games played. I'm not even saying Nico is necessarily better than Milton, but I'll argue until I'm blue in the face that to think that Nico as the #2 player in the 2022 class is so raw as to not perform as "good" as Milton is historically ridiculous. Also, are you just going to sweep years of actual games played under the rug? Milton has shown marginal improvement, statistically speaking, since his first chance at Michigan. The eye test is even more damning to me; he more importantly looks noticeably any different than his Michigan years.
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If Nico is better, I suspect that we will see him soon.
 
#406
#406
Big Al Orange said:
Please correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t Nico show up just after Christmas last year ?
By my count that gives him about 10 mos with our program. If he’s as good as advertised he should be ready.
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All I know is the coaches would play him if he proved he was better in practice. That’s my assumption anyway because I think we have good coaches who know what they’re doing and see these guys play more than we do.
 
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#409
#409
Vol8188 said:
To me it seems obvious they’ve now put the handcuffs on him. Early in the year we were throwing quick screens constantly, which I assume to have been pre snap reads by Milton off of called run plays.

Notice those were basically gone this week?
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The coaches are going to do what it takes to win. I look at this as the coaching staff doing their job and looking at what the other team is doing and adjusting to that.

Did it ever occur to you that A&M may have adjusted to those quick screens with the thought they could stop the run?

Good grief. Unless you have had a conversation with the coaches on what you are saying, you are just guessing as to a confidence level or not.

My opinion is that the coaching staff is looking at this game by game and deciding what will work against the opponent they are playing each week. Last year they did not do that well if at all - it was here is the offense, we are going to go really fast - stop it if you can. And that worked until UGA came along and UGA stopped it cold and we had no answer offensively.

Sometimes not having that premier QB or RB or WR, etc. forces coaches to get outside of the box of what they would normally do and adjust to their players and how to effectively use the players against the opponent they are facing. I think the FL loss was a wake up call for this team. They are not going to beat the best teams by just going fast and relying on explosive plays.
 
#412
#412
From this year's performance, I would run JM a lot more as he seems to be big, strong, and fast enough to get the first down. I would limit or design out most any play where he has to think or make a football decision on the fly. When he goes back and can't get through his first or second read, we are toast. Playing UGA and BAMA will require a lot of luck, them making mistakes, a miraculous performance by our Defense and Offensive Line and Joe Milton not giving up easy turnovers, dumb penalties, or sacks. It will be one heck of an interesting game but, expect the crowd noise to rally mess up an already hard to make decisions Tennessee QB. Hoping I am wrong and Vols kick Bama's butt.
 
#413
#413
volfan102455 said:
The coaches are going to do what it takes to win. I look at this as the coaching staff doing their job and looking at what the other team is doing and adjusting to that.

Did it ever occur to you that A&M may have adjusted to those quick screens with the thought they could stop the run?

Good grief. Unless you have had a conversation with the coaches on what you are saying, you are just guessing as to a confidence level or not.

My opinion is that the coaching staff is looking at this game by game and deciding what will work against the opponent they are playing each week. Last year they did not do that well if at all - it was here is the offense, we are going to go really fast - stop it if you can. And that worked until UGA came along and UGA stopped it cold and we had no answer offensively.

Sometimes not having that premier QB or RB or WR, etc. forces coaches to get outside of the box of what they would normally do and adjust to their players and how to effectively use the players against the opponent they are facing. I think the FL loss was a wake up call for this team. They are not going to beat the best teams by just going fast and relying on explosive plays.
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Except our passing game didn't work. And if you watch the game, you'll notice plenty of times we could have thrown quick screens.
 
#415
#415
TucsonVol said:
Bench Milton and play the kid!! He has to be a much better passer than Joe!!
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I trust the coaches. They see both of them in practice.

But, if Milton continues to play like this, then Nico will play IF he is better.
 
#417
#417
cherokeeeVOL said:
All I know is the coaches would play him if he proved he was better in practice. That’s my assumption anyway because I think we have good coaches who know what they’re doing and see these guys play more than we do.
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Psst…don’t expect the masses to get this…but this actually is the way it works in sports.
 
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#418
#418
VolFreakJosh said:
5-1 with Milton at QB.

He’s done exactly what the coaches have told him to do.

You think Heupel forgot how to coach QBs?

Maybe he’s not as bad as you’re implying.
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He isn't great. Team game though. I want to see more physicality in Milton's game. He has the tools to do so. His clock is broken. Not sure how to fix that or wr's not getting open. If Leacock is healthy Keyton should sit. Nico will play when he can run the offense correctly. Just like most Freshmen he needs time
 
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#419
#419
EZE said:
Psst…don’t expect the masses to get this…but this actually is the way it works in sports.
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That's such a misleadingly simple way of looking at it. The great coaches (e.g., Saban) have no issue playing musical chair at QB until they find the right fit as determined by the QB's performance in actual games. The "go with who practices best" or whatever would have cost Saban a ring for the 2017 season. What about Georgia in 2021? Little ole walk-on Stetson Bennet came in and played much better than the hyped transfer from USC that won the starting job in the offseason. Am I to think that Georgia rolls to a ring that year with JT Daniels holding back an otherwise great team? What about last year when Dabo finally accepted the limits of DJ and replaced him against UNC? I'm not even saying that Cade has ended up being much better than DJ, but Dabo had the right mindset to at least give him a shot. There's numerous examples of that happening. The many of us who want to see Milton benched are merely wanting Heupel to follow those examples.
 
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#420
#420
BigALWiLson said:
He isn't great. Team game though. I want to see more physicality in Milton's game. He has the tools to do so. His clock is broken. Not sure how to fix that or wr's not getting open. If Leacock is healthy Keyton should sit. Nico will play when he can run the offense correctly. Just like most Freshmen he needs time
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If "running the offense correctly" is a standard for playing time, then why is Milton in the game? Is the entirety of Volnation supposed to seriously believe the #2 ranked player in the 2022 class can't manage a 50% completion rate with only 100 yards? Stop it. Let's be realistic here.
 
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#421
#421
JHuntVols said:
Too bad you don't have a time machine. You can go back to 2022 and save Heupel from making the horrible mistake of continuing to play Hooker after Milton was ready to go again. Now I wouldn't necessarily blame you for not doing the following given the team, but you could also go back to 2018 and save Saban from making the horrible mistake of benching Hurts for the unproven freshman in Tua in the national championship of all games! What were those two coaches thinking?!?!?!?!?!
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This is pretty easy to distinguish, Heupel's decision to stick with Hooker and Saban's decision to go to Tua were informed decisions based on them having seen all existing data (i.e. all the practices, games, knowing fully the team chemistry situation and it's morale), at best you armchair second guessers are only going to be basing your takes on a miniscule fraction of the data available to the coaches. While coaches can certainly be wrong, I am generally always going to assign you, the anonymous internet poster a higher burden of proof in explaining the rationale and justification for your point of view. The armchairs do not stand on equal footing with the coaching staff in terms of the presumptive value of their opinions.
 
#422
#422
cherokeeeVOL said:
All I know is the coaches would play him if he proved he was better in practice. That’s my assumption anyway because I think we have good coaches who know what they’re doing and see these guys play more than we do.
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If I had to guess, id say nico doesn’t have a full grasp of the playbook yet. He’s a true freshman, and when hooker took over in year 1 he already had 2 seasons worth of experience so it’s not an apples to apples comparison. I think that’s probably the main reason because decision making probably couldn’t get much worse than what we have in Milton right now.
 
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#425
#425
EZE said:
I trust the coaches. They see both of them in practice.

But, if Milton continues to play like this, then Nico will play IF he is better.
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But they have only seen Nico in practice except for a couple of handoffs in mop up games against what be considered as good high schools.
 
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