Serious QB discussion

[Creek Bottoms]

I don't want to hear any of the Milton defenders say a word when he absolutely ***** the bed and is the entire reason for us losing the game at Alabama next week.

Get ready!

 

[volzsohard]

If Heupel puts Nico in and gets hurt you are in a terrible position next year. The only options in that scenario is finding a portal QB, starting a true freshman or a walk on. If I was one of the rising players I would want to protect the seasons to come. If you drop the game to Bama then there really isn't much to play for except 2nd in the east and decent bowl game.

 

[volmanNC]

Once again, not once have I asked for Nico. I fully believe our coaching staff will play our best chance to win. I’ll say it again if I need to. Our program looks pretty good this year, other than the QB position. I’m just ready for you Milton sunshine pumpers to stop lying to yourself and trying to convince us of the same. We have 1 of the worst QBs in the conference. He has horrible decision making and still can’t lead a simple slant. I’m just ready to see people come to terms with it and stop trying to convince me Joe doesn’t hold this team back. He does.

Calmly, well stated...

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Simple question for the Joe apologists:

If Joe is playing so poorly Saturday that he is the reason we could lose do you support pulling him?

I think that is all anyone is really saying when they are criticizing him. I personally am fine if he gets the start being on the road in Tuscaloosa. But when it’s obvious he doesn’t have it, it’s time for a trip to the mound.

I think Coach Heupel will do what gives us the best chance to win. If he thinks leaving Joe in will create a loss and pulling him will create a win, he'll pull him.

Until that's clear, really really really CLEAR to Josh Heupel, I expect Joe to play. Previously, Halzle said Nico couldn't execute the offense any better than Joe when directly asked about Nico getting quality playing time instead of Joe.

That's where the coaches are. That's where I am.

 

[BernardKingGOAT]

Pointing out we won isn't the argument; it's irrelevant to the point of the discussion. Why? The discussion is if Milton is good, which is to say he contributes to winning the game, or that he's bad, which is to say that he unnecessarily limits or actively has a negative impact on the team's success. The evidence suggests that he's not only bad, but it suggests he's within spitting distance of JG bad. The fact is that it's a credit to Heupel, the run game, and the defense that they've managed to carry Milton to wins to this point. I simply prefer live games to ensure we are putting the best players out on the field before taking an unnecessary loss because of bad play at the most important position in sports. To preemptively answer a question, I'm willing to take the risk of an "unproven" player taking the reins simply because the level of play he has to perform to is so low as to expect anything different is not only an insult to him but a total dismissal of the usefulness of recruiting players.

I'm glad our coach forgot more about the game than you know, and isn't willing to take a risk with an unproven player. I'm glad our coach plans proactively, while scheming fervently, one game at a time. Unlike you, he can't be consumed by reactionary and instantly gratified moments. One game at a time. Heupel knows Milton's weaknesses better than any of us. I trust him to design a game plan around Milton's weaknesses.

 

[VolFreakJosh]

I don’t know what’s more annoying:

The ones who beat down Joe Milton any chance they get.

Or….

The ones who think Nico is the next Joe Montana.

This reminds me of the Harrison Bailey days where everyone thought he was the answer just because he had 5 stars next to his name.

 

[Delmar]

I’m typing this slowly so you can understand.

He has a history of starting one QB over another that he should not. That’s all I’m saying. I don’t know how to “deliver” this any other way.

Now is where you can make inferences or put words in my mouth that is incorrect.

But you do you.

I don’t know how to explain this better. People keep harping on “Joe starting over a better QB has happened before.” Sorry but that dog won’t hunt if you consider the circumstances last year. The word was last year that Hendon did not perform as well as Joe in preseason practice and that is why Joe got the nod. There was nothing else for Heupel and Golesh to go on. Hendon certainly didn’t show the same capability at VA Tech and in the preseason that he did when the light went on during the season last year. But it did come on and the rest is history. He was one of the best we’ve had.

And it is not the same situation as thinking a sane coach is going to replace a veteran QB on a 5 and 1 top 20 team with a raw albeit talented freshman. It ain’t going to happen. Nico will probably end up being really good but the coaches don’t think he’s ready and I’ll go with their expertise before I listen to a bunch of couch coaches. You guys can keep wasting your breath but Joe ain’t coming out unless he gets hurt or we are getting beaten badly. If we get a couple more losses then I can see him getting more time.

 

[JHuntVols]

I'm glad our coach forgot more about the game than you know, and isn't willing to take a risk with an unproven player. I'm glad our coach plans proactively, while scheming fervently, one game at a time. Unlike you, he can't be consumed by reactionary and instantly gratified moments. One game at a time. Heupel knows Milton's weaknesses better than any of us. I trust him to design a game plan around Milton's weaknesses.

I bet the entire state of Alabama appreciates the exact opposite in Saban. That he took the necessary risk of switching QBs at halftime during a national championship game to give his team, his players a chance to win the game instead of arrogantly sticking to a QB who did nothing but handicap that team. If you're going to use buzzwords, then make sure they apply BTW. None of what I said is "reactionary" ... it's based off watching over a dozen live games along with a simple look at summary stats. We all know Milton's greatest weakness... the dude can't play QB at the level required of a team in the SEC.

I fully expect the Milton defenders to come in droves to defend their boy if he's benched this weekend at half time for failing to execute the simple game plans they've devised for him. I fully expect that group to roast, to criticize, to bury Heupel for the decision of not sticking with "the winner" regardless of the outcome too. That leads me to a question of if Milton starts but gets benched at halftime for Nico. Which QB would get the credit for the win? That QB stat we call wins is so darn complicated sometimes!

 

[Creek Bottoms]

Perhaps Nico is a bust.

 

[Delmar]

Simple question for the Joe apologists:

If Joe is playing so poorly Saturday that he is the reason we could lose do you support pulling him?

I think that is all anyone is really saying when they are criticizing him. I personally am fine if he gets the start being on the road in Tuscaloosa. But when it’s obvious he doesn’t have it, it’s time for a trip to the mound.

If Joe is playing poorly and we are getting hammered, then Nico should get some time. But there is no way in Hades that you start an unproven freshman in Tuscaloosa. He’s not ready for that. Especially if our wideouts don’t start getting separation and catching the ball. It is not all on Milton. If you note Joe’s performance at the end of last season, he had Tillman, Hyatt and a Keyton who was catching balls. He doesn’t have any of the three. And add to that, if Mincey doesn’t play Saturday, it doesn’t matter who starts. We’ll have a major problem if that happens.

 

[JHuntVols]

I don’t know how to explain this better. People keep harping on “Joe starting over a better QB has happened before.” Sorry but that dog won’t hunt if you consider the circumstances last year. The word was last year that Hendon did not perform as well as Joe in preseason practice and that is why Joe got the nod. There was nothing else for Heupel and Golesh to go on. Hendon certainly didn’t show the same capability at VA Tech and in the preseason that he did when the light went on during the season last year. But it did come on and the rest is history. He was one of the best we’ve had.

And it is not the same situation as thinking a sane coach is going to replace a veteran QB on a 5 and 1 top 20 team with a raw albeit talented freshman. It ain’t going to happen. Nico will probably end up being really good but the coaches don’t think he’s ready and I’ll go with their expertise before I listen to a bunch of couch coaches. You guys can keep wasting your breath but Joe ain’t coming out unless he gets hurt or we are getting beaten badly. If we get a couple more losses then I can see him getting more time.

I thought we were all here to discuss what should happen and not what will happen... I don't expect Milton to actually be benched at all this year. The two ways you said are the only ways I see that happening too. E.g., he literally misses every throw before half time against a team like AL or GA. Now that certainly is possible given Milton's accuracy, but it's likely he'll eventually hit a screen! My problem is that your group doesn't base performance on live games, you're too risk averse, you greatly overestimate the skill of Milton, and you frankly insult Nico (and thereby the coaching staffs recruiting evaluations) by implying he's not capable of playing up to the so called "standard" that Milton has set for him. You base a QB's value merely on practice reports. We're constantly told that Nico can't handle the offense or isn't better than Milton for one reason or another. There's no plausible reason to ever start Nico regardless of Milton's performance within that framework; you're just stuck with Milton until the offseason when he's gone, and then practice can tell them all who to start for next year. Saying that, you have 0 credibility when you inevitability question his ability after he gets shut down (again) by a good defense.

 

[Majors]

I bet the entire state of Alabama appreciates the exact opposite in Saban. That he took the necessary risk of switching QBs at halftime during a national championship game to give his team, his players a chance to win the game instead of arrogantly sticking to a QB who did nothing but handicap that team. If you're going to use buzzwords, then make sure they apply BTW. None of what I said is "reactionary" ... it's based off watching over a dozen live games along with a simple look at summary stats. We all know Milton's greatest weakness... the dude can't play QB at the level required of a team in the SEC.

I fully expect the Milton defenders to come in droves to defend their boy if he's benched this weekend at half time for failing to execute the simple game plans they've devised for him. I fully expect that group to roast, to criticize, to bury Heupel for the decision of not sticking with "the winner" regardless of the outcome too. That leads me to a question of if Milton starts but gets benched at halftime for Nico. Which QB would get the credit for the win? That QB stat we call wins is so darn complicated sometimes!

Tua was a backup as a freshman all season and majority of the next. Sorry establish that little bit of context missing.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

I bet the entire state of Alabama appreciates the exact opposite in Saban. That he took the necessary risk of switching QBs at halftime during a national championship game to give his team, his players a chance to win the game instead of arrogantly sticking to a QB who did nothing but handicap that team. If you're going to use buzzwords, then make sure they apply BTW. None of what I said is "reactionary" ... it's based off watching over a dozen live games along with a simple look at summary stats. We all know Milton's greatest weakness... the dude can't play QB at the level required of a team in the SEC.

I fully expect the Milton defenders to come in droves to defend their boy if he's benched this weekend at half time for failing to execute the simple game plans they've devised for him. I fully expect that group to roast, to criticize, to bury Heupel for the decision of not sticking with "the winner" regardless of the outcome too. That leads me to a question of if Milton starts but gets benched at halftime for Nico. Which QB would get the credit for the win? That QB stat we call wins is so darn complicated sometimes!

Saban was behind 13-0 at the half when he pulled Hurts for Tua. The quote from Saban:

"It wasn’t like an emotional, in-the-moment decision. It was calculated based on a progression through the season and an improvement of a young player, knowing his skill set vs. what we needed to do to win the game.”

Spoken like a coach. When Heupel sees that progression in Nico and sees that improvement in Nico and sees that skillset is ready in Nico AND we need his particular abilities to win the game, Nico will play.

Why is it so hard to understand that coaches ACTUALLY watch players and see them progress and play them when they are ready and needed?

 

[Okie]

Perhaps Nico is a bust.

No one knows until he plays, but it is possible. Spencer Rattler was a 5* genius at Oklahoma until he played his way to South Carolina. He hasn't exactly won a Heisman there either.

 

[JHuntVols]

Tua was a backup as a freshman all season and majority of the next. Sorry establish that little bit of context missing.

What? Tua only got playing time in 2017 for mop duty before coming into the national championship game. The following season he started, but they had frequent run first packages for Hurts to come in to play. The frequency of Hurts coming in was less and less as the year went on too. Sorry, I just want to remind everyone of THAT missing context. Also, I guess Tua actually being able to play in mop up duty did give him a leg up on Nico. The QB in front of Tua was good enough to put away bad teams early to give his backup opportunities to play at some point; that's been a very rare thing in Nico's case though.

Oh that did remind me. Which QB gets credit for that win though? Is it Hurts? His name is the one listed as the "starter" beside that W. But wait... does he split it with Tua? Maybe credit for half the win? Darn, I'll get this QB stat right eventually!

 

[JHuntVols]

No one knows until he plays, but it is possible. Spencer Rattler was a 5* genius at Oklahoma until he played his way to South Carolina. He hasn't exactly won a Heisman there either.

Spencer Rattler is a much better QB than Joe Milton. I'd have taken TAMU's QB last weekend over Joe Milton personally.

 

[SGMVols]

Perhaps Nico is a bust.

Oh stop. Even Peyton wasn’t that great as a true freshman. Most qbs aren’t.

 

[SGMVols]

I think Coach Heupel will do what gives us the best chance to win. If he thinks leaving Joe in will create a loss and pulling him will create a win, he'll pull him.

Until that's clear, really really really CLEAR to Josh Heupel, I expect Joe to play. Previously, Halzle said Nico couldn't execute the offense any better than Joe when directly asked about Nico getting quality playing time instead of Joe.

That's where the coaches are. That's where I am.

I think Heupel and Nico mutually agreed to a redshirt after he wasn’t able to go in against Austin Peay. Of course, that’s out the window if Joe gets hurt, but Nico can play against UConn and Vandy and still maintain the RS.

 

[volfan102455]

That would obviously depend on why we are 1-5. I'm not as lazy as some to merely look at who started the game at QB then look at the record and go, "damn bruH! What a winner! GBO!" If Milton was having 300 yard games and actually contributing to the team putting up a presumed 40+ points per game, then I'd have no issue with him... I'd obviously be focusing on why the defense is allowing 40+ points per game to beat us!

I don't want to hear any of the Milton defenders say a word when he absolutely ***** the bed and is the entire reason for us losing the game at Alabama next week.

You would be calling for the HC to be fired.

 

[AndyMizunogolfer]

Joe being a 6th year SR and still seems to lack in overall game knowledge. I know the horse has been beaten although that free play was the absolute kicker for me on Joe. It really looks to me like he just lacks the confidence in what he is doing at times. Now is it all on Joe? Umm negative ghost riders. I saw multiple times where they panned out to see the full field that literally no one was open. Our WR's have to be more aggressive and fight the DB off of them. I haven't taken the time to review every pass. Although I can really only remember 1 contested catch all season. They are doing a poor job of getting open as well as fighting for the ball. I don't see how changing for a true freshman is going to help the cause there.

While we are kicking Joe. We might as well bring up that CJH has to understand that sometimes 3 points is a win on a drive in this league. I feel that he left at least 6 extra points on the field. While I don't think that really changes the outlook from anyone on here. A&M has an excellent defense. Don't be fooled by their fans into thinking they are terrible. 5* talent across the board.

 

[JHuntVols]

Saban was behind 13-0 at the half when he pulled Hurts for Tua. The quote from Saban:

"It wasn’t like an emotional, in-the-moment decision. It was calculated based on a progression through the season and an improvement of a young player, knowing his skill set vs. what we needed to do to win the game.”

Spoken like a coach. When Heupel sees that progression in Nico and sees that improvement in Nico and sees that skillset is ready in Nico AND we need his particular abilities to win the game, Nico will play.

Why is it so hard to understand that coaches ACTUALLY watch players and see them progress and play them when they are ready and needed?

None of what I said implied it was an emotional or knee jerk reaction. I have no doubt at halftime he looked how poorly Hurts has played, and he thought that Tua could do no worse and hopefully provide a spark on a stagnant offense (sound familiar?) The point of this is that it's an obvious counterexample to the idea that you dogmatically stick to the starting quarterback regardless of how they play and who is waiting behind them. Why can't you understand that?

 

[JHuntVols]

You would be calling for the HC to be fired.

Absolutely not. The only concern I've ever had about Heupel is his continued lovefest for Milton despite him having over a dozen games worth of tape showing he's not a capable QB in the SEC. There should be no doubt he's the best coach we've had since Fulmer though. In fact, I think he's so good that he's merely a QB away from winning not only 1 ring but maybe even 3 rings in his career as a Volunteer head coach. That's how highly I think of him.

 

[Smokymtnbullet]

Last year’s recipient of the No contract extension award went to Willie Martinez.This year Kelsey Pope is working hard at that award and seems to be the only thing he’s working hard at

 

[volfan102455]

Spencer Rattler is a much better QB than Joe Milton. I'd have taken TAMU's QB last weekend over Joe Milton personally.

Rattler is 2-4 and has lost to every team of importance SC has played. They beat Furman and barely beat MSU. Why would you want him? As good as he may be in your eyes - he hasn't lead his team to victories.

 

[BernardKingGOAT]

I bet the entire state of Alabama appreciates the exact opposite in Saban. That he took the necessary risk of switching QBs at halftime during a national championship game to give his team, his players a chance to win the game instead of arrogantly sticking to a QB who did nothing but handicap that team. If you're going to use buzzwords, then make sure they apply BTW. None of what I said is "reactionary" ... it's based off watching over a dozen live games along with a simple look at summary stats. We all know Milton's greatest weakness... the dude can't play QB at the level required of a team in the SEC.

I fully expect the Milton defenders to come in droves to defend their boy if he's benched this weekend at half time for failing to execute the simple game plans they've devised for him. I fully expect that group to roast, to criticize, to bury Heupel for the decision of not sticking with "the winner" regardless of the outcome too. That leads me to a question of if Milton starts but gets benched at halftime for Nico. Which QB would get the credit for the win? That QB stat we call wins is so darn complicated sometimes!

Show me where I defended Milton in any of my posts. Please. You're so hell bent defending your opinion that you can't see the forest for the trees. The fact is, Milton is starting for a SEC team with a great coach scheming around him. This isn't our fourteenth game, playing for the national title. If Milton stinks it up this weekend, Heupel might start giving Nico more snaps with first team offense in practice. And again, Heupel forgot more than your reactionary ass knows about it