Serious QB discussion

#652
#652
BernardKingGOAT said:
Show me where I defended Milton in any of my posts. Please. You're so hell bent defending your opinion that you can't see the forest for the trees. The fact is, Milton is starting for a SEC team with a great coach scheming around him. This isn't our fourteenth game, playing for the national title. If Milton stinks it up this weekend, Heupel might start giving Nico more snaps with first team offense in practice. And again, Heupel forgot more than your reactionary ass knows about it
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I wasn't necessarily directing that last comment about the Milton defenders at you. Don't take it personal man! It's all good here!
 
#653
#653
Flipdaddy said:
Thanks to the defense and our running game. If you think Milton has had anything to do with our wins, you’re delusional or fooling yourself. Eventually a quarterback is going to have to get us win. What’s your confidence in that scenario? Probably going to happen this weekend. Even if Milton plays lights out and we beat Alabama, you can’t deny he’s almost gotten us beat every game.
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Did our defense and run game take the loss at Florida in your opinion? Thats
a loss where we couldn’t tackle or get off the field on 3rd down.
 
#655
#655
all the problems may not be the qb fault. i for one am not real happy with our OC. play calling not very great in certain games. just my 2 cents worth.
 
#656
#656
Majors said:
That’s true, South Carolina as a team is 2-4, Texas AM as team has lost 3 games, with most recently back to back. Not much to understand after that.
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Question.. is it total wins or win percentage that matters for this QB stat? I'm trying to figure out which of these players are better. Thanks!

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#657
#657
JHuntVols said:
Bro I completely understood what you said, which is why I literally stated "You base a QB's value merely on practice reports". I laid out my problems with that mindset literally right before that summary of your position. You can reread it again. I think we're all aware that Heupel and the staff don't even remotely care what any of us say on this forum. I thought we were having a fun discussion of what SHOULD happen based on what WE have seen? If not, then this will be a boring forum. Just going to be post after post of, "Coach knows best! GBO!"
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What we've seen is actually the tip of the iceberg. My discussions with Joe and Nico to judge their grasp of Heupel's offense and execution of it have been as frequent as my discussions with Dolly about her bra choices. I like what little I've seen from both of them, but the details and what remains unseen are what's important.

I get your point. You WANT to see Nico. I do too. I don't think the risk/reward is there for Heupel to put him in a game in a critical situation. We might see him against UConn and maybe Heupel will tease us and let him run some tempo. I can hope.

Right now. I'd like to win more than I'd like to see Nico.
 
#658
#658
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
What we've seen is actually the tip of the iceberg. My discussions with Joe and Nico to judge their grasp of Heupel's offense and execution of it have been as frequent as my discussions with Dolly about her bra choices. I like what little I've seen from both of them, but the details and what remains unseen are what's important.

I get your point. You WANT to see Nico. I do too. I don't think the risk/reward is there for Heupel to put him in a game in a critical situation. We might see him against UConn and maybe Heupel will tease us and let him run some tempo. I can hope.

Right now. I'd like to win more than I'd like to see Nico.
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We'll probably agree on it being too late to throw Nico in against AL this week. I mean barring some disaster even for Milton standards (or an absolute blowout! GBO!), then I don't want him on the field in Tuscaloosa at all. My preference would be to let him have a half or more against UConn and go from there. If he ***** the bed, then I'll have no problem saying that he's not ready and to continue to unfortunately trot Milton out there. He would then be the best we have without a doubt.
 
#659
#659
Jxn Vol said:
It is astonishing how personal folks react to this subject. It’s been shocking. Almost like the Political Forum.
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Lol! Ya we're all passionate about this because we want to see the team win! No hard feelings here against anyone from me at least :D
 
#660
#660
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
I got roasted and listened to them. It seems true to me now that if he's really a great QB and puts up crazy numbers in college, he'll leave ASAP.

If Heupel is unsure, he might try to convince him of a redshirt year but I can't imagine that would go over well with Nico. He's been really highly recruited and highly rated and I'll bet he believes his stay in college should be as short as possible.

I'm betting his eyes are focused on how quickly he can get to the league. A redshirt is useless for him.
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Frankly I came around on it too, I just think it's ironic now that it doesn't look like he's going to play anytime soon. Maybe he gets in there if we're up by 20 in the 4th against Vandy and UConn but that's probably it.
 
#663
#663
JHuntVols said:
We'll probably agree on it being too late to throw Nico in against AL this week. I mean barring some disaster even for Milton standards (or an absolute blowout! GBO!), then I don't want him on the field in Tuscaloosa at all. My preference would be to let him have a half or more against UConn and go from there. If he ***** the bed, then I'll have no problem saying that he's not ready and to continue to unfortunately trot Milton out there. He would then be the best we have without a doubt.
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The problem with pulling Milton is that "you can't go home again" after that. MAYBE Coach Heupel could have a discussion with the team somehow that explains he's giving Nico a "test drive" for next year in the UConn game but I don't think I've ever seen a starting QB passed over so a coach "take a look at a QB" in anything other than blowout/mop up situations.

If Milton becomes a huge liability and has to be pulled, I'd suspect it would be hard on him and hard on the locker room. Obviously, I'd love a Nico comes in and wows the football world story because that's excellent for recruiting and such but the wife watches the Hallmark Channel, not me.
 
#664
#664
VolMarine1371 said:
I will not say Heupel is bad. He is a hell of a coach and I’m glad he is here. But it still don’t mean we can’t complain about what we see. But I will say Heupel absolutely has a blind love for Milton. Heupel brought Milton in when he was hired. Hooker was already committed prior to Heupel arriving. And what we know now is that Hooker was head and shoulders above Milton and it wasn’t even close.

Heupel has been trying to start Milton for since 2021 when we had a better QB on the bench in Hooker. So this wouldn’t be the first time Heupel started Milton while claiming the one on the bench just isn’t ready. Just look at Hooker stats compared to Milton’s stats prior to UT and you will see Hooker has been better than Millton since day 1.
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Our OC just said a couple weeks ago that Milton was playing at a high level as well. Does anybody honestly believe that? Those were direct words from Halzle to the media. I want Joe to be better, but I truly believe Heup just feels like he owes him for sticking it out and not transferring.
 
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#665
#665
Majors said:
Resorting to NFL from 97 and 99 to the college game now. Manning and O’Donnell matchup. Zig and zagging is reaching
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Close! It's actually Manning and Dilfer! Also, it's simply a clear illustration of the absurdity of attributing the team record to the QB. It's not reaching; it's a reductio ad absurdum. Well, I'm hoping that a Vols fan out of anyone would agree that Manning is better than Dilfer and to suggest otherwise is absurd. I've been surprised before though...
 
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#666
#666
cherokeeeVOL said:
Frankly I came around on it too, I just think it's ironic now that it doesn't look like he's going to play anytime soon. Maybe he gets in there if we're up by 20 in the 4th against Vandy and UConn but that's probably it.
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I'm hoping for UConn. I've not looked at the size of them and all that but I hope we overmatch them with our OLine and Nico can get some snaps with the starters.

It's at Neyland and the crowd would get excited.
 
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#667
#667
Orange931 said:
Our OC just said a couple weeks ago that Milton was playing at a high level as well. Does anybody honestly believe that? Those were direct words from Halzle to the media. I want Joe to be better, but I truly believe Heup just feels like he owes him for sticking it out and not transferring.
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I don't think anyone who plays in the SEC or B1G like Joe did feels "owed" anything. It's pretty competitive, you know.

Joe lost his starting job twice before. He knows it's not guaranteed. I don't think Heupel is THAT soft hearted, at least I hope not.

Coaches have to hurt feelings sometimes to get it done. Rodney Garner......nuff said.
 
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#668
#668
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
I'm hoping for UConn. I've not looked at the size of them and all that but I hope we overmatch them with our OLine and Nico can get some snaps with the starters.

It's at Neyland and the crowd would get excited.
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Concerning Peyton.......he would run this offense to precision like standards. They might add some under-center plays, but his ball handling in the backfield would lead to some RPO scampers for 10 yards and a slide😊
 
#669
#669
I believe CJH is protecting Nico for the future. We will be thin at QB in 24, sure as heck don't want the projected starter coming off an ACL surgery.
 
#670
#670
Majors said:
Did our defense and run game take the loss at Florida in your opinion? Thats
a loss where we couldn’t tackle or get off the field on 3rd down.
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They stuffed the run and Tennessee didn’t adjust. It had more with Mays being out and the moment too big for us not to mention the refs.
 
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#671
#671
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
The problem with pulling Milton is that "you can't go home again" after that. MAYBE Coach Heupel could have a discussion with the team somehow that explains he's giving Nico a "test drive" for next year in the UConn game but I don't think I've ever seen a starting QB passed over so a coach "take a look at a QB" in anything other than blowout/mop up situations.

If Milton becomes a huge liability and has to be pulled, I'd suspect it would be hard on him and hard on the locker room. Obviously, I'd love a Nico comes in and wows the football world story because that's excellent for recruiting and such but the wife watches the Hallmark Channel, not me.
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Milroe was pulled like that for Bama one week
 
#672
#672
JHuntVols said:
Close! It's actually Manning and Dilfer! Also, it's simply a clear illustration of the absurdity of attributing the team record to the QB. It's not reaching; it's a reductio ad absurdum. Well, I'm hoping that a Vols fan out of anyone would agree that Manning is better than Dilfer and to suggest otherwise is absurd. I've been surprised before though...
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You hope? There's no one on the planet who believes Dilfer is in the parking lot next to the ballpark level of Manning. My goodness
 
#673
#673
Lankykong said:
Milroe was pulled like that for Bama one week
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Alabama's a great example of "be careful if you wish for the backup QB" because as I recall the backups weren't better. It was South Florida when he didn't start and Bama struggled. I think at that time Nick had still not "officially" declared a starter but he did after that.
 
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#674
#674
Teezy said:
Whew. With all due respect, really bad take. I would argue our game planning was actually really good. But the coaches realized Milton was not having a good day at all, which he wasn’t, and even made some inexcusable mistakes along the process. At that point, as a coach you say our running game is working and our defense is playing out of their minds. Let’s just try to grit this win out. Also, while I understand your frustration with our passing game, wanting Tennessee to change their running game plan is downright silly. We just ran for 235 yards against one of the best running defenses in the COUNTRY. Tennessee doesn’t need to change a damn thing when it comes to running the ball.
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My point was not about game planning, but about lack of anything new from what we've seen on opening day. And they had 2 weeks to prepare. I see other teams in college and pros have at least one or two gadget plays that fool the defense and especially when you're down in the red zone and need a score or 1st down. When was the last time you saw TN pull some trick play in a game ? That 4 th down and 2 yard play where JM didn;t make a first down---we all knew that play was coming. And I'm not saying abandon the running game. I'm only saying do something different besides run it up the middle They did that so often and got stuffed for no gain. Heck, do a sweep run out to the left or right from time to time and make the defense guess what is coming Also, I feel like the reason the play calling is bland, is because they don't have much faith in JM pulling it off.
 
#675
#675
volfeeva said:
My point was not about game planning, but about lack of anything new from what we've seen on opening day. And they had 2 weeks to prepare. I see other teams in college and pros have at least one or two gadget plays that fool the defense and especially when you're down in the red zone and need a score or 1st down. When was the last time you saw TN pull some trick play in a game ? That 4 th down and 2 yard play where JM didn;t make a first down---we all knew that play was coming. And I'm not saying abandon the running game. I'm only saying do something different besides run it up the middle They did that so often and got stuffed for no gain. Heck, do a sweep run out to the left or right from time to time and make the defense guess what is coming Also, I feel like the reason the play calling is bland, is because they don't have much faith in JM pulling it off.
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I've seen several new wrinkles
 
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