Shinzo Abe Assassinated

#105
#105
evillawyer said:
So your theory, I take it, is that guns have a greater crime deterrent than facilitation effect. Is that right? Any data to back that howler up?
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No, my contention is that the number of guns do not affect the amount of violent crime. Violent crime was rampant in all European cities from the 1400s through the 1800s when guns were anywhere from extremely rare to only affordable to the wealthy.
 
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#109
#109
hog88 said:
No, my contention is that the number of guns do not affect the amount of violent crime. Violent crime was rampant in all European cities from the 1400s through the 1800s when guns were anywhere from extremely rare to only affordable to the wealthy.
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Let's accept that as true for purposes of argument. Let's assume people are just as violent now as they've always been. Now let's inject guns (as opposed to weapons such as knives and baseball bats). Can the Las Vegas shooter kill that many people that quickly from a hidden location without guns? Can the Uvalde killer keep cops at bay while he kills all those kids and teachers without guns? Can gangbangers injure or kill 15 people in a 10-second drive-by without access to guns? You'd be lying to yourself if you said yes. The presence of guns make violence and death easier and quicker to inflict. If you didn't believe that you should be indifferent between having a baseball bat and a gun for purposes of self-defense. And I know you'd choose the gun for self-defense.
 
#110
#110
evillawyer said:
So your theory, I take it, is that guns have a greater crime deterrent than facilitation effect. Is that right? Any data to back that howler up?
Click to expand...
CDC/ national academy good enough for you?

Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence | Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence |The National Academies Press

The lowest estimate for defensive gun use is 108,000. However that is not supported by data. The smallest number supported by data is 500,000 defensive gun uses PER YEAR, and up to 3 million, but that's an extrapolation.
"Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). On the other hand, some scholars point to a radically lower estimate of only 108,000 annual defensive uses based on the National Crime Victimization Survey (Cook et al., 1997). The variation in these numbers remains a controversy in the field. The estimate of 3 million defensive uses per year is based on an extrapolation from a small number of responses taken from more than 19 national surveys. The former estimate of 108,000 is difficult to interpret because respondents were not asked specifically about defensive gun use.
National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine. 2013. Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence. Washington, DC: The National Academies Press. Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence |The National Academies Press."

For context the same study lists 250,000 victims of gun crimes. So it's AT LEAST 2x more of a deterrent than facilitator.
 
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#111
#111
Sandman 423 said:
Fair enough. I believe that there is something in our culture that is causing the violence. I think Japan(at this point and time )does not.
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100% agree.
Violence is at the core of America. We were founded on violence and ever since its been part of our way of life. I mean, we dropped not just one but two nuclear bombs on Japanese civilians. Don't get much more hard core than that. People tend to try and look at other countries and say "BUT LOOK AT MEH JAPAN OR DENMARK!" while forgetting that those countries themselves at one time were saturated with violence. The US is a pretty new country in the grand scheme of things. Take the guns and violence doesn't end. Does gun violence drop? Of course. But the reality is if someone is willing to shoot another person and they can't get a gun, they are gonna find another way to do it..like make a Lowes Double Barrel N' Tape Special.
 
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#112
#112
utvolpj said:
Why are we excluding suicide and accidents in their statistics? What happens when you do that in the US....?
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Fun fact if you commit suicide in Japan the government sues the family of the person who committed suicide.
 
#115
#115
evillawyer said:
So your theory, I take it, is that guns have a greater crime deterrent than facilitation effect. Is that right? Any data to back that howler up?
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Up to 3 million self defense usage a year. Which outweighs all violent shootings and suicides combined
 
#116
#116
Rickyvol77 said:
Up to 3 million self defense usage a year. Which outweighs all violent shootings and suicides combined
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But an apples to apples comparison would also have to include cases where a gun was used in a crime but not discharged, such as an armed robbery. Additionally, my understanding of the methodology used to track defensive gun use is based on self-reporting (which is notoriously bad). So if a guy tells raucous teens to get off his lawn and flashes a gun, that counts as a defensive use (even though lesser means may have worked just as well).
 
#117
#117
evillawyer said:
But an apples to apples comparison would also have to include cases where a gun was used in a crime but not discharged, such as an armed robbery. Additionally, my understanding of the methodology used to track defensive gun use is based on self-reporting (which is notoriously bad). So if a guy tells raucous teens to get off his lawn and flashes a gun, that counts as a defensive use (even though lesser means may have worked just as well).
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It is used to consider those crimes with a gun. Do you not understand armed robbery or kidnapping or aggravated assault doesn’t require the gun to be discharged?
 
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#118
#118
'Why not just say you hate the guy?' NPR is slammed for 'tasteless' tweet calling ex-Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe a 'divisive arch-conservative' just hours after he was assassinated during walk

Taxpayer-funded radio network NPR has been slammed for dismissing former Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe as a 'divisive arch-conservative' just hours after the ex-leader's assassination.

'Former Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, a divisive arch-conservative and one of his nation's most powerful and influential figures, has died after being shot during his campaign speech Friday in western Japan,' NPR tweeted in a Friday report that was later deleted.

The once-respected network - now famed for its obsession with woke issues that have turned many listeners off - was immediately condemned for its choice of words.

NPR is slammed for dismissing ex-Japanese Prime Minister as a 'divisive arch-conservative' | Daily Mail Online
 
#120
#120
evillawyer said:
Let's accept that as true for purposes of argument. Let's assume people are just as violent now as they've always been. Now let's inject guns (as opposed to weapons such as knives and baseball bats). Can the Las Vegas shooter kill that many people that quickly from a hidden location without guns? Can the Uvalde killer keep cops at bay while he kills all those kids and teachers without guns? Can gangbangers injure or kill 15 people in a 10-second drive-by without access to guns? You'd be lying to yourself if you said yes. The presence of guns make violence and death easier and quicker to inflict. If you didn't believe that you should be indifferent between having a baseball bat and a gun for purposes of self-defense. And I know you'd choose the gun for self-defense.
Click to expand...

I do not believe people are just as violent today as they have always been. I believe and I think statistics will show that violent crime is pretty close to the lowest it's ever been, if we took the money associated with the drug trade out of the equation I believe that violent crime would be almost non-existent. So the examples you have used prove that we have a people problem that we haven't had in the past and not a gun problem. Remember access to guns was easier 30-40 years ago than it is now and the examples you used were almost unheard of.
 
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#121
#121
LouderVol said:
CDC/ national academy good enough for you?

Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence | Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence |The National Academies Press

The lowest estimate for defensive gun use is 108,000. However that is not supported by data. The smallest number supported by data is 500,000 defensive gun uses PER YEAR, and up to 3 million, but that's an extrapolation.
"Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). On the other hand, some scholars point to a radically lower estimate of only 108,000 annual defensive uses based on the National Crime Victimization Survey (Cook et al., 1997). The variation in these numbers remains a controversy in the field. The estimate of 3 million defensive uses per year is based on an extrapolation from a small number of responses taken from more than 19 national surveys. The former estimate of 108,000 is difficult to interpret because respondents were not asked specifically about defensive gun use.
National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine. 2013. Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence. Washington, DC: The National Academies Press. Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence |The National Academies Press."

For context the same study lists 250,000 victims of gun crimes. So it's AT LEAST 2x more of a deterrent than facilitator.
Click to expand...


Unfortunately, the gun nut crowd seizes on such comments to try to skew the numbers with often times impossible results.

How Often Are Guns Used for Self-Defense?

One pro gun loon did a study which, according to the math, concluded that burglary victims used guns to thwart the suspects more than 100 % of the time. Oops.
 
#123
#123
lawgator1 said:
Funny, i just posted same.

And you know the gun nuts have lost any shred of objectivity when their champion is an FSU professor with a track record of promoting literally impossible math.
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Mathamethhmetics iz hard for the GOP

 
#124
#124
lawgator1 said:
Unfortunately, the gun nut crowd seizes on such comments to try to skew the numbers with often times impossible results.

How Often Are Guns Used for Self-Defense?

One pro gun loon did a study which, according to the math, concluded that burglary victims used guns to thwart the suspects more than 100 % of the time. Oops.
Click to expand...

Completely non biased source you got there.

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Why We Started This Site

Every year in our country, a firearm is used in nearly 500,000 crimes, resulting in the deaths and injuries of more than 110,000 people. Shootings devastate families and communities and drain billions of dollars from local, state, and federal governments. Meanwhile, the problem of gun violence has been compounded by another: the shortage of knowledge about the issue.


We believe that when an issue is shrouded by a knowledge gap, journalism can be a big part of the solution. As a nonprofit newsroom, The Trace is able to dedicate itself to in-depth reporting that doesn’t let up after the latest high-profile shooting leaves the front pages.

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#125
#125
Donald Trump Honors Friend Shinzo Abe: ‘A Truly Great Man and Leader’

japan-US-golf-leaders-640x480.jpg

Former U.S. President Donald Trump publicly honored ex-Japan Prime Minister Shinzo Abe on Friday morning, saluting their long friendship in the hours leading up to the late leader’s death.

Trump described his shock at the shooting which later claimed Abe’s life, as Breitbart News reported.

“Absolutely devastating news that former Prime Minister Shinzo Abe of Japan, a truly great man and leader, has been shot, and is in very serious condition,” Trump said in a statement.

“He was a true friend of mine and, much more importantly, America. This is a tremendous blow to the wonderful people of Japan, who loved and admired him so much. We are all praying for Shinzo and his beautiful family!

Donald Trump Honors Friend Shinzo Abe: 'A Truly Great Man and Leader'
 
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