Six to 10?

[volfan411]

As will I. And yes, I agree that UT has more talent than Vandy. However, I also believe 2 other things as well.... 1. Franklin has developed his talent much better than Dooley ever dreamed of and evidently better than Butch did this year.... 2. The talent gap between the 2 programs is closer than it has ever been, certainly in my lifetime.

All that was a preface to this.... I doubt UT puts 6-10 in the league this year. But it appears that Vandy just might. Here are the Vandy players that NFL scouts expect to have a good chance to be drafted this year...

1. Jordan Matthews (WR)
2.Andre Hal (DB)
3. Kenny Ladler (DB)
4. Walker May (DE)
5. Wesley Johnson (OT),
6. Chase Garnham (LB),
7. Chris Boyd (WR),
8. Kasey Spear (K).

If we are using players drafted as logic that UT should have been beaten Vandy does this say that the talent gap is closer than some want to admit?

If Vandy has 8 drafted and UT does only have 6 will that mean Vandy should have beaten UT?

 

[sjt18]

I don't know about Sapp, Smith and Bullard. I expect them to get signed after the draft and get a chance there.

Drafted or not... I do not honestly think Smith or Bullard will make it based on their careers at UT.

McCullers has the potential, he just needs that hunter-killer mentality like Saulsberry has.

McCullers... true to Jones prediction... is a big part of why UT was so bad on D. I will not be surprised if he's drafted. I will be surprised if he ever does any good. Like you say, he simply is not aggressive enough.

Palardy is a great punter and I see him going 4-6 round depending on need.

Kickers are often signed as FA's. I suspect Palardy will be as well. I don't think he'll be drafted.

Tiny and J. James are solid 1-3 round picks. Stone and Fulton are good 3-5 rounders too.

I'm not as sure about Stone. I think Fulton is a better OL than James.

AJ is staying for another year of S&C and work on his lateral movement and speed.

IMO, that would be HUGE for next year's team. I just don't know if he will. There is always a risk of injury and of having a bad year that hurts his status.

As an NFL back up, he can work on all that on a full time basis.

 

[VolenteerSpirit]

Yep. I can buy that for a reason they were a mess early in the season. I have a tough time accepting that as an excuse for why guys aren't ready to play and beat Vandy in week 11.

I knew that Dooley basically quit mid-season but did not know that specific. But how long does that prevent a player from knowing his gap assignments? How does that explain neither of the back up QB's who played being unprepared? How much bearing should that have on performance in the last half of the next season?

Sorry. I am just frustrated when people try to explain away what we just saw avoiding any inkling of responsibility for the current staff.

I know they didn't inherit ideal circumstances... few do when replacing a fired coach. But great coaches make a difference and it does not take 5 years to see it.


How long is it OK to lose to Vandy? How long is it OK to be blown out by every top tier team you play? How long is it OK to have the same players make the same mistakes game after game? How long before you expect back ups to be ready to step in when needed? How long before five win seasons start surprising you?

Its never ok to lose to Vandy.
We had our only 2 true WR not in that game, and still managed to keep it close.
Vandy was a loss, not an embarrassment.
Who was Dobbs going to throw the ball to??
When you want to put all the blame on the coaches, it makes you seem ignorant.
LET ME SAY THIS...
The coaches "could" have made changes to what they were teaching in order to run different plays. That may have maybe made some games closer. It WOULD have definitely created more work for them moving forward.
Championship coaches, teach their plays, do not deviate, and only add to it when players prove they can handle more. The things that look like liabilities now, will be the things that help in the long run.
You seem like one of those Bama fans calling for Nickies head after one slip up and not calling a time out before the kick. The same mentality that said CPF had to go.
These coaches are human, they do make mistakes, they are accountable. They don't need, recruitment doesn't need, and fans don't need krazy people trying to make sure they are blamed. When these coaches signed a Financial Agreement with UT athletics, they accepted accountability. They accepted it, no one needs you to point out that we lost to freakin Vandy. I am so glad when we win a NC with Butch. I dread they next year after we don't. The fire Butch talk will start up. Its almost like no one ever learns not to isht in their own bed.
GBO

 

[Spartacavolus]

whatever. Let me know when we have a qb, rb, wr, te, lb, cb, and s drafted. We will have OL drafted and averaged more yards per carry than we have in a couple to few decades, and a dl that is supposed to stand people up while great lb's make tackles.
The extents that some of you go to try and prove a terrible argument isn't surprising in the least.

 

[LWSVOL]

Yep. I can buy that for a reason they were a mess early in the season. I have a tough time accepting that as an excuse for why guys aren't ready to play and beat Vandy in week 11.

I knew that Dooley basically quit mid-season but did not know that specific. But how long does that prevent a player from knowing his gap assignments? How does that explain neither of the back up QB's who played being unprepared? How much bearing should that have on performance in the last half of the next season?

Sorry. I am just frustrated when people try to explain away what we just saw avoiding any inkling of responsibility for the current staff.

I know they didn't inherit ideal circumstances... few do when replacing a fired coach. But great coaches make a difference and it does not take 5 years to see it.


How long is it OK to lose to Vandy? How long is it OK to be blown out by every top tier team you play? How long is it OK to have the same players make the same mistakes game after game? How long before you expect back ups to be ready to step in when needed? How long before five win seasons start surprising you?

I'm no where close to convinced that Butch is a great coach. Great coaches chase National Championships not conference championships. I'm close to deciding if Butch can accomplish that or not. Even when hired, he didn't fit "great coach category". JMO

From a UT perspective it is never okay to lose to Vandy. That will be a black mark on CBJ's resume. It will impact his future depending on what he does the next few years. That is life as the UT football coach.

Blow outs: Anyone needs to have a competitive roster versus certain teams to be able to compete. I would give him time to rebuild the roster. No need for us to debate the roster issue. I realize you are on the side the roster has more talent / experience than me. I pegged it a 5 win roster and was lucky to hit that.

I put a post up regarding the QB position. No need to restate it. Depends on experience levels. True freshman typically take over a year to get out of the freshman mistake mode. The elite level freshman (we had none of those IMO) should get over those mistakes earlier. This staff would have replaced several upper classmen had they had anyone better. There were DBs making same mistakes they made 3 years ago as freshman. Of course, they have had 3 different coaches and they are not all that good anyway.

As far as your last questions, 5 win season could continue for a long time if we have to continue trying different coaches all the time. This university is not going to be able or want to hire a Nick Saban type coach. Anyone wanting that, will be waiting a long, long time. We are not going to compete salary wise to get elite level coaching. They have to replace Butch in the future, it will be another coach with the back ground of the last 3 IMO.

sorry for being so long. Lots of interesting questions. Stating my opinion with the answers

 

[92volalum]

From a pure talent averages standpoint, this team under-performed by 2 games. Through Vegas eyes, this team performed exactly as could be expected.

When I went back and started looking at this UT team, who under-performed by two games with a coach who has 1) never under-performed his talent averages, and 2) carries a 3.5 game a year positive average effect on talent, I was stunned. UT might be one of the very few outliers whose talent averages due to attrition, lack of recruiting depth at key positions, and under development could not field a quality two deep at any point in the season.

Here is a simple way to look at it. Check out the average star quality of the players on the two deep for each position group. See how that changes next year with the incoming class. It is truly amazing how Jones is updating talent and how little that was recruited/remained before him that could contribute on the field.

i like this but i believe his over performing is skewed due to the competition n the confs he came from... much more talent in sec from top to bottom so we will see if this/trend of over performing for cbj continues..

he under performed by 2 games n that was fla n vandy n both due to
coaching decisions during the game.. do they get that fixed when he gets his players n his/system will be the/question.eace2:

 

[IBLEEDORANGE16]

Key word there is COULD. Tyler Bray comes to mind not to mention others that were not drafted. Our entire OL will probably be drafted. There is 5 right there.

 

[beachbums624]

It ALL comes back around , As to how we fired Fulmer Not when. Our University did a crappy job of Firing/Retiring That Coach . We have been paying that price since then . Now we have , YET the the third Head Coach and what ? The 48th 60th Posoition Coachs in 4 years ???? DUH .

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Many players have made it into the NFL without much talent. Also just because they get drafted doesn't mean they will make the team or even play.

Yet another stupid attempt to bash Butch Jones.

 

[99gator]

you know, i forgot with regard to vandy, tennessee lost because instant replay reversed the spot of the ball on a 4th down play.

it's like the argument we had before the season started. is there a huge difference between 6-6 (what i predicted) and 7-5 (what i remember you predicted). not a whole heck of a lot.

well, not to try to be a sunshine pumper, but the black cloud hanging over the program stole two games.

if the spot of the ball is ruled inconclusive against vandy and if pig howard doesn't fumble, tennessee is 7-5.

now, i know the whole if's and but's thing. but, the point is tennessee was an eyelash from accomplishing what you were hoping for.

it doesn't seem right to say the coaching was poor when two plays cost tennessee two wins.

 

[beachbums624]

i like this but i believe his over performing is skewed due to the competition n the confs he came from... much more talent in sec from top to bottom so we will see if this/trend of over performing for cbj continues..

he under performed by 2 games n that was fla n vandy n both due to
coaching decisions during the game.. do they get that fixed when he gets his players n his/system will be the/question.eace2:

DaJS stuff works 70% of the time . I like real math .I see that some of our couch coaches where actually on the sideline and the phones . Which one of you guys called for the receiver to drop the ball ? That question has been troubling me for a coupla weeks now .

 

[DERELICK_MY_VOLS]

ok, here's the deal on what i would look at.

1. tennessee was inconsistent. the team that showed up against florida was not the same team that showed up against georgia and south carolina. that's part of changing a losing culture.

2. join the club. the "blowouts" some of you are crying about are ridiculous because of the following. alabama took a lot of teams to the woodshed. auburn just put up 59 on a previously 11-1 team. oregon has been taking people to the woodshed for years. it's not like you were alone in getting hammered by those clubs. and auburn got better as the year went along.

3. tennessee started 3 different qb's this season and ended the year starting a true freshman.

4. several aspects of the team, when healthy, clearly improved. special teams play was night and day.

Being rational and realistic.....coming from a Gator fan....I actually completely agree with you. Add in all the offensive fire power that bolted for the NFL that we couldn't replace with freshmen and sophomores....you would be spot on k:

 

[allvol123]

Yep... that's the number of departing Vol football players this analyst says could be drafted:

NFL draft analyst: 6-10 Vols could be drafted in 2014 | Nooga.com

So that begs the question... how can a team with "no talent" or insufficient talent to beat Vandy put that many guys in the NFL?


Interesting quote to say the least: "It’s amazing that a team not bowl-eligible has this many potential draftees, but Tennessee could easily have 6-10 draft picks,” he said.

Who knows. Michigan state went 6-6 last year with a team that had 6 players drafted.

Guess MD can't coach. Weird how he won that conference title.

Good try though.

 

[beachbums624]

I gotta leave this thread . The bashing of posters , has become TOO EASY . I gotta go see what is actually going on , in the OFF season.

 

[BACKDOC]

Yep... that's the number of departing Vol football players this analyst says could be drafted:

NFL draft analyst: 6-10 Vols could be drafted in 2014 | Nooga.com

So that begs the question... how can a team with "no talent" or insufficient talent to beat Vandy put that many guys in the NFL?


Interesting quote to say the least: "It’s amazing that a team not bowl-eligible has this many potential draftees, but Tennessee could easily have 6-10 draft picks,” he said.

Virtually no one with a fourth string QB could beat Vandy.

 

[DERELICK_MY_VOLS]

you know, i forgot with regard to vandy, tennessee lost because instant replay reversed the spot of the ball on a 4th down play.

it's like the argument we had before the season started. is there a huge difference between 6-6 (what i predicted) and 7-5 (what i remember you predicted). not a whole heck of a lot.

well, not to try to be a sunshine pumper, but the black cloud hanging over the program stole two games.

if the spot of the ball is ruled inconclusive against vandy and if pig howard doesn't fumble, tennessee is 7-5.

now, i know the whole if's and but's thing. but, the point is tennessee was an eyelash from accomplishing what you were hoping for.

it doesn't seem right to say the coaching was poor when two plays cost tennessee two wins.

Or the bomb the white boy dropped in the Vandy game or Pig's block in the back which cost Dobb's a TD. Those were the plays that were called & there for THE PLAYERS on the FIELD to step up and make.....but choked. That simple.

 

[OrangeDonkey]

I'll do what I like until Freak says not to. I'll breakdown your post to the syllable if I want. And I could absolutely care less what justification or "credentials" you drop in an effort to excuse subpar coaching.

I am not saying that they cannot coach. I am not saying they will not do better. I hope they can and do. But they DID NOT get the potential out of the '13 roster.

I understand what you are saying about not hating the staff. I think you are wrong though when you blame the coaches for not getting the most out of 117.

Basically what you are saying is that the coaching staff that had only one offseason with this team, which was developed the past 3.5 years by another staff who was incompetent, did not get the most out of the roster? I could have told you that at this time last year, and I did when I said that we would go 6-6 this year (this was before we knew that Mizzou and Aub were going to win the conference).

Also, I agree that we should have won the Vandy game that you keep bringing up in every single post. However, when the talent that was developed correctly by the last staff lies in non skill player positions, it is hard to call efficient plays. Having few talented skill players is tough, especially when your competition is filled to the brim with them.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

you know, i forgot with regard to vandy, tennessee lost because instant replay reversed the spot of the ball on a 4th down play.

it's like the argument we had before the season started. is there a huge difference between 6-6 (what i predicted) and 7-5 (what i remember you predicted). not a whole heck of a lot.

well, not to try to be a sunshine pumper, but the black cloud hanging over the program stole two games.

if the spot of the ball is ruled inconclusive against vandy and if pig howard doesn't fumble, tennessee is 7-5.

now, i know the whole if's and but's thing. but, the point is tennessee was an eyelash from accomplishing what you were hoping for.

it doesn't seem right to say the coaching was poor when two plays cost tennessee two wins.

Very good post. I wish many would realize the points you have made. Some make it sound like Vandy blew us out. Yes CBJ made a mistake in that game but last time I checked coaches make mistakes.

 

[AV_12]

Unfortunately, we won't have a QB drafted....

 

[KBVol]

If we are using players drafted as logic that UT should have been beaten Vandy does this say that the talent gap is closer than some want to admit?

If Vandy has 8 drafted and UT does only have 6 will that mean Vandy should have beaten UT?

Agree. As I said, the gap in talent on these 2 teams as constituted in 2013 was a close as any I've ever seen. And UT didn't have a player in the same stratosphere as Jordan Matthews who is 1st team All American and a 1st rd draft pick.

 

[DERELICK_MY_VOLS]

whatever. Let me know when we have a qb, rb, wr, te, lb, cb, and s drafted. We will have OL drafted and averaged more yards per carry than we have in a couple to few decades, and a dl that is supposed to stand people up while great lb's make tackles.
The extents that some of you go to try and prove a terrible argument isn't surprising in the least.

Patterson, Hunter, & Rivera....sort of the reason our passing game was terrible this year :dunno:

 

[Wylo]

I am just NOT going to judge this Coach ,Or staff on 12 games . We have been doing this crap since Fulmer was fired . NOT doing it .

the paid coaches should be judged on every game, recruit, and action on and off the field.

 

[Spartacavolus]

Patterson, Hunter, & Rivera....sort of the reason our passing game was terrible this year :dunno:

I know. He was referencing the upcoming draft with this past team and there will be zero speed drafted at any position off of our team.

 

[1972 Grad]

Or the bomb the white boy dropped in the Vandy game or Pig's block in the back which cost Dobb's a TD. Those were the plays that were called & there for THE PLAYERS on the FIELD to step up and make.....but choked. That simple.

Racist, IMO.

 

[EZE]

:unsure:

Considering the talent gaps, I personally don't blame Butch for the blowout losses to teams like Alabama, Auburn or Oregon. I don't put much stock into margin of loss against teams which are clear superior in nearly every facet of the game. JMO.

Consistency is hard to achieve with a new staff and a young team, I think. I tend to look at SC and UGA as a sign, you tend to focus on Vandy and the blowout losses. It's just two different ways of looking at a season filled with positives and negatives.

It is called a positive outlook instead of a negative one. I prefer the positive side myself. Going through life as an Eeyore isn't that appealing to me.

The extremity of the negative fringe element of our fan base is shocking, though. I do not understand how people can go so far with the negativity. They would can Smokey if he crapped on the field.