Six to 10?

[LWSVOL]

I understand what you are trying to say and respectfully disagree unless you are saying that the coaches they've had were terrible coaches.

If someone was saying this proves UT should have won the SEC... then I'd agree with your argument. But I don't when we're talking about losing to Vandy and not even getting off the bus for 4 blow out losses.

Coaches instruct / teach differently. So the player gets different "how to do things". S&C coaches do things differently. Physically, players are affected by this change. It doesn't matter who they are playing they are impacted from a development standpoint.

Did you know that the last 6 weeks of Dooley's tenure that the team didn't see the weight room? and the first 4 weeks after that they were not accomplishing much while the staff was being formed and the new S&C coach was getting his plan out to them. So this team this year missed out on 10 weeks of S&C work..

I'm honestly surprised this staff was able to get 5 wins from this roster, regardless of pro projections.

 

[sjt18]

Spurrier thinks Butch showed some coaching ability in his first year, as does Richt.

I don't think anyone is happy about the Vandy game. It should not have happened. But I can provide plenty of examples where a team was slightly better and lost. Being a great coach doesn't mean you don't have bad days.

If you call those things a wash... you still have nothing to balance out 4 28+pt blowouts... completely uncompetitive games. I can completely understand that UT did not have the talent to predict beating at least 3 of those teams. But coaching should at least make it look competitive... for at least a half?

Kiffin kept a more mismatched team in games with Bama and UF. Dooley's first team showed up for a half vs Bama and Oregon.

Expecting more than a win or two more would be asking too much. I don't think asking for consistently competitive coaching is.

 

[Eddie Vol Halen]

Bama's widest margin of loss that year was 7 points. They were in every game. Only two of UT's losses this year were by less than 7 points. The 4 blowouts were over before the end of the 1st qtr.

That's the crux of the questions surrounding this staff.

No one went mental after Georgia.

No one expected us to be Oregon / Alabama.

Those of us who thought we should still be in the game at halftime though were excoriated as "negas" and "not understanding football."

 

[99gator]

Does that explain losing to Vandy in game 11? I don't think it does.

At their lowest ebb, UF was in the game with Mizzou until the 4th qtr. UT was done... just two weeks later... before the end of the 1st half.

That's a problem unique to UT? Including Peterman is a bit of a stretch though. It is accurate to say that Worley was not prepared to start the season and neither of the others were ready when they got their shot either. One... maybe you blame the kid. Three???


Palardy improved. You didn't see the Auburn game, did you? Palardy had a less than stellar game and the other team set NCAA records.

yeah, it explains losing to vandy. vandy beat georgia and florida too. was the vandy game not an improvement from 2012 vandy?

dude, the florida missouri game was over when they tossed the coin.

missouri fumbled a punt to set up a florida fg and florida returned the opening kickoff of the 2nd half fro a td.

florida had 1 drive the entire game.

i know auburn's special teams went wild, but that was pretty much what happened on special teams throughout the season in the past few years, not just one game.

 

[sjt18]

Coaches instruct / teach differently. So the player gets different "how to do things". S&C coaches do things differently. Physically, players are affected by this change. It doesn't matter who they are playing they are impacted from a development standpoint.

Yep. I can buy that for a reason they were a mess early in the season. I have a tough time accepting that as an excuse for why guys aren't ready to play and beat Vandy in week 11.

Did you know that the last 6 weeks of Dooley's tenure that the team didn't see the weight room? and the first 4 weeks after that they were not accomplishing much while the staff was being formed and the new S&C coach was getting his plan out to them. So this team this year missed out on 10 weeks of S&C work..

I knew that Dooley basically quit mid-season but did not know that specific. But how long does that prevent a player from knowing his gap assignments? How does that explain neither of the back up QB's who played being unprepared? How much bearing should that have on performance in the last half of the next season?

Sorry. I am just frustrated when people try to explain away what we just saw avoiding any inkling of responsibility for the current staff.

I know they didn't inherit ideal circumstances... few do when replacing a fired coach. But great coaches make a difference and it does not take 5 years to see it.


How long is it OK to lose to Vandy? How long is it OK to be blown out by every top tier team you play? How long is it OK to have the same players make the same mistakes game after game? How long before you expect back ups to be ready to step in when needed? How long before five win seasons start surprising you?

 

[Freak]

I would like to publicly apologize for , my post on The Girls of thread to FREAK . The beer was in and the wit was , Mos' Defennatly out . This is without a doubt The best FanSite Available .

I must have missed it. :lol:

 

[Eddie Vol Halen]

Coaches instruct / teach differently. So the player gets different "how to do things". S&C coaches do things differently. Physically, players are affected by this change. It doesn't matter who they are playing they are impacted from a development standpoint.

Did you know that the last 6 weeks of Dooley's tenure that the team didn't see the weight room? and the first 4 weeks after that they were not accomplishing much while the staff was being formed and the new S&C coach was getting his plan out to them. So this team this year missed out on 10 weeks of S&C work..

I'm honestly surprised this staff was able to get 5 wins from this roster, regardless of pro projections.

Dooley was such a putz! Can't believe he coached my Vols!

 

[Freak]

If you call those things a wash... you still have nothing to balance out 4 28+pt blowouts... completely uncompetitive games. I can completely understand that UT did not have the talent to predict beating at least 3 of those teams. But coaching should at least make it look competitive... for at least a half?

Kiffin kept a more mismatched team in games with Bama and UF. Dooley's first team showed up for a half vs Bama and Oregon.

Expecting more than a win or two more would be asking too much. I don't think asking for consistently competitive coaching is.

Considering the talent gaps, I personally don't blame Butch for the blowout losses to teams like Alabama, Auburn or Oregon. I don't put much stock into margin of loss against teams which are clear superior in nearly every facet of the game. JMO.

Consistency is hard to achieve with a new staff and a young team, I think. I tend to look at SC and UGA as a sign, you tend to focus on Vandy and the blowout losses. It's just two different ways of looking at a season filled with positives and negatives.

 

[sjt18]

yeah, it explains losing to vandy. vandy beat georgia and florida too. was the vandy game not an improvement from 2012 vandy?

Comparing anything to the coaching in '12 is pretty irrelevant. That's like asking if swallowing jalapeno juice is better than swallowing acid. The answer is yes... but who really wants to swallow jalapeno juice?

UT should not have lost to Vandy. UT was pretty healthy at that point.

dude, the florida missouri game was over when they tossed the coin.

That explains the 23-17 score at the end of the 3rd qtr, right? By the end of the 3rd qtr, Mizzou was putting their 3rd string in vs UT.

However you scored the points... UF found a way to compete... to put themselves in the game. UT didn't... and didn't come close.

i know auburn's special teams went wild, but that was pretty much what happened on special teams throughout the season in the past few years, not just one game.

Like I said, the coaches improved Palardy. They get full credit there and especially Jones who took a personal interest in Palardy. When he didn't get it done... things went south quick.

BTW... Palardy is finished at UT.

 

[tim]

Article supports DAJ2576's theory of the Vols underperforming -2 games in 2013 based on talent level.

I find it amazing that per the article Jacques Smith has more NFL potential than Corey Miller. Miller had more sacks in the Ky game than Smith had in his 4 years.

Miller had more sacks in one game than ___________ did all season.















Clowney. Chew on dat.

 

[K-town Vol Fan]

Sorry but J. Smith and D. Sapp being drafted? We all knew our o-line was "good" Neal would not have been drafted last year so kudos to the coaches for getting ready. And half of VN doesn't want AJ to come back because he's too slow. It appears to me like this writer doesn't have a clue. Lets be sure to bump this thread come draft day.

 

[sjt18]

Considering the talent gaps, I personally don't blame Butch for the blowout losses to teams like Alabama, Auburn or Oregon. I don't put much stock into margin of loss against teams which are clear superior in nearly every facet of the game. JMO.

If I could not point to other teams who were in no better shape than UT who did play those teams closer then I would understand that lack of concern. Jones himself made a huge deal out of being competitive every game, minute, and moment. Margin is an indication of competitiveness unless all those teams beat everyone else just as bad... and they didn't.

My argument would even be invalid if they had been competitive against one or two of them. They looked like homecoming fodder in all 4 and it wasn't all on the players.

Consistency is hard to achieve with a new staff and a you team, I think. I tend to look at SC and UGA as a sign, you tend to focus on Vandy and the blowout losses. It's just two different ways of looking at a season filled with positives and negatives.

I actually accept all of that. It is a balance and right now the evidence we have weighs against showing the staff capable. It isn't all bad but the bad outweighs the good at this point on the field.

 

[beachbums624]

I am just NOT going to judge this Coach ,Or staff on 12 games . We have been doing this crap since Fulmer was fired . NOT doing it .

 

[K-town Vol Fan]

Considering the talent gaps, I personally don't blame Butch for the blowout losses to teams like Alabama, Auburn or Oregon. I don't put much stock into margin of loss against teams which are clear superior in nearly every facet of the game. JMO.

Consistency is hard to achieve with a new staff and a young team, I think. I tend to look at SC and UGA as a sign, you tend to focus on Vandy and the blowout losses. It's just two different ways of looking at a season filled with positives and negatives.

Good point. Is the glass half empty or half full?

 

[sjt18]

Sorry but J. Smith and D. Sapp being drafted? We all knew our o-line was "good" Neal would not have been drafted last year so kudos to the coaches for getting ready. And half of VN doesn't want AJ to come back because he's too slow. It appears to me like this writer doesn't have a clue. Lets be sure to bump this thread come draft day.

Truce on the arguments for a moment to give a hardworking Vol a prop.

I will not be surprised at all if Sapp makes at least a pre-season roster next fall. He has sufficient size. He is good in coverage for a LB. He tackles pretty well and covers ground well. He, like AJ, suffered from having DT's that didn't keep OL's out of the 2nd level.

 

[sjt18]

Good point. Is the glass half empty or half full?

It is both. And that's what I have been arguing for awhile now.

 

[HuntlandVolinColo]

I don't know about Sapp, Smith and Bullard. I expect them to get signed after the draft and get a chance there.

McCullers has the potential, he just needs that hunter-killer mentality like Saulsberry has.

Palardy is a great punter and I see him going 4-6 round depending on need. Tiny and J. James are solid 1-3 round picks. Stone and Fulton are good 3-5 rounders too.

AJ is staying for another year of S&C and work on his lateral movement and speed.

 

[Poppa T]

We're not going to fix them. I never said we were. But if we all pretend they don't exist, the people who should fix them have no motivation to do so. It's how people like Dooley get contract extensions with huge buyouts after their first, mediocre year.

LMAO. I "think" I get it now ... it is the fault of those dastardly VN anonymous posters who pretend all is well. If we had only known that the secret to motivating "the people who should fix them " is contained on VN. We must tell Dave and the boys that the key to our return to glory is there for the taking on a free message board. Oh snap, I'll bet that evil Franklin has been stealing our secrets.

 

[KBVol]

I'll be absolutely stunned if we have anywhere near 10 guys drafted. That said, anyone who maintains that Butch didn't have as much talent as Vanderbilt ought to seek psychiatric help fast.

As will I. And yes, I agree that UT has more talent than Vandy. However, I also believe 2 other things as well.... 1. Franklin has developed his talent much better than Dooley ever dreamed of and evidently better than Butch did this year.... 2. The talent gap between the 2 programs is closer than it has ever been, certainly in my lifetime.

All that was a preface to this.... I doubt UT puts 6-10 in the league this year. But it appears that Vandy just might. Here are the Vandy players that NFL scouts expect to have a good chance to be drafted this year...

1. Jordan Matthews (WR)
2.Andre Hal (DB)
3. Kenny Ladler (DB)
4. Walker May (DE)
5. Wesley Johnson (OT),
6. Chase Garnham (LB),
7. Chris Boyd (WR),
8. Kasey Spear (K).

 

[99gator]

Comparing anything to the coaching in '12 is pretty irrelevant. That's like asking if swallowing jalapeno juice is better than swallowing acid. The answer is yes... but who really wants to swallow jalapeno juice?

UT should not have lost to Vandy. UT was pretty healthy at that point.

That explains the 23-17 score at the end of the 3rd qtr, right? By the end of the 3rd qtr, Mizzou was putting their 3rd string in vs UT.

However you scored the points... UF found a way to compete... to put themselves in the game. UT didn't... and didn't come close.


Like I said, the coaches improved Palardy. They get full credit there and especially Jones who took a personal interest in Palardy. When he didn't get it done... things went south quick.

BTW... Palardy is finished at UT.

by that logic, what difference does it make whether the games lost were close or blowouts?

a loss is a loss.

isn't a close loss jalapeno juice and a blowout acid?

here's what i know as an outsider.

the team that played georgia and beat south carolina was the best tennessee football team i have seen in years.

did you get that week in and week out? no.

but, you didn't put the same team on the field all year long either.

 

[sjt18]

I am just NOT going to judge this Coach ,Or staff on 12 games . We have been doing this crap since Fulmer was fired . NOT doing it .

Honest criticism of actions in time is not judging.

I have been a critic of the way they coached this season. I am not convinced that they are or are not good coaches. I am only convinced that they did not do a great job this fall. This may be their low ebb... or it may be truly indicative of their ability. I would have to "judge" to say one way or the other, right?

 

[led0321]

Anyone that watched team 117 would know it had no playmakers outside of a true freshman receiver. The biggest problem this team had was speed on defense and very limited talent at the skill positions. There will be no secondary players or skill position players drafted.

Please don't we facts and logic

 

[sjt18]

by that logic, what difference does it make whether the games lost were close or blowouts?

I don't really think anyone is arguing that Dooley was a good coach or did a good job in '12 at this point. We certainly are not and were not arguing about whether he had a future at UT or not. We had more than enough evidence to know he was not the right guy.

Right now, we are trying to figure out what we have in Jones. His performance vs UGA and USC are check marks. His performace against UF, Oregon, USA, Mizzou, Bama, and Auburn are strikes against.

the team that played georgia and beat south carolina was the best tennessee football team i have seen in years.

did you get that week in and week out? no.

but, you didn't put the same team on the field all year long either.

Less Worley... pretty much they did. And many if not most of those defending the coaches against any and all criticism... hated Worley and wanted him replaced long before injury made it necessary. You could probably entertain yourself for awhile going back and reading the posts of those using Dobbs for an excuse now... saying he was more what Jones wanted in a QB than Worley anyway.

 

[sjt18]

Anyone that watched team 117 would know it had no playmakers outside of a true freshman receiver. The biggest problem this team had was speed on defense and very limited talent at the skill positions. There will be no secondary players or skill position players drafted.

Neal was mentioned here and will likely get drafted or be signed UFA. As far as I know, no other skill players on O are eligible for the draft. Moore is the only DB eligible, right?

 

[beachbums624]

Honest criticism of actions in time is not judging.

I have been a critic of the way they coached this season. I am not convinced that they are or are not good coaches. I am only convinced that they did not do a great job this fall. This may be their low ebb... or it may be truly indicative of their ability. I would have to "judge" to say one way or the other, right?

And there , Right there is where we part ways . This year to me was going to be a mess . I do not care if it was Gruden or Saben at the helm . This year was pretty much done before it started . Good God man . What you are doing is Aligning yourself to say " I told you so ." I see no other reason for your thoughts as posted to exist .


Edit : Not just in this thread man . Evaluate all you want ,it all comes down to YOU thought , we where gonna win the EAST .