Six to 10?

[JoseDaMofo]

The real problem is that at this point you would rather see Butch fail so you can be right rather than see Butch turn it around and have to admit on VN that he's a pretty good coach. He will be held accountable........when we have seen a reasonable sample size of his coaching ability in the SEC. Not after 12 games with a roster of someone else's players in a new system on both sides of the ball while playing a true freshman QB against one of the most difficult schedules I've ever seen us play.

Oh, my God. The hypocrisy from Fade route is absolutely maddening.

This coming from the guy who threw rage-infested rants about Dooley and his staff for three continuous years. The same, exact argument was given to you during that time, and you're going to preach to somebody else with it?

 

[k-town_king]

Most Butch haters were the die hard Doolanders. They want him to fail so they can say "see no one can win here" or "Dooley did more with a worse team" or "Dooley got fired for 5-7, why is it ok for Butch to be 5-7?".

 

[99gator]

i will also say that before the season, i thought tennessee would go 6-6.

but, if you said before the season that the auburn and missouri would be legit top 10 teams....a 5-7 record would not have shocked anyone.

 

[oregonvol]

Most Butch haters were the die hard Doolanders. They want him to fail so they can say "see no one can win here" or "Dooley did more with a worse team" or "Dooley got fired for 5-7, why is it ok for Butch to be 5-7?".

Hmmm. I guess that makes me the odd man out, because I spoke out against the Dooley hire here from the very beginning.

 

[sjt18]

You've become quite bitter.

No. Just more candid.

I saw the negatives with Dooley and Fulmer before him. I had alot of reservations about Kiffin. But I intentionally said only the positive. I argued that others should not be so critical... and many were one dimensionally negative with nothing good to say.

I was wrong. Being honest about things that are not good... is not "bad".


If I've become "bitter" (which assumes I take this chat board pastime far more serious than I do) it is perhaps towards those who refuse to acknowledge any responsibility or blame for the coaches at all. These same "positive" fans throw the players under the bus all the time... in order to avoid simply saying that the coaches underperformed the talent they had... especially vs Vandy.

 

[oregonvol]

I was wrong.

This may be one of the rarest things we see on this board. It's always nice to see people learn from past mistakes instead of just ignoring them and/or repeating them.

 

[sjt18]

Most Butch haters were the die hard Doolanders. They want him to fail so they can say "see no one can win here" or "Dooley did more with a worse team" or "Dooley got fired for 5-7, why is it ok for Butch to be 5-7?".

I can say with absolute candor that I "believe" that Jones is a better coach and hope nothing less than he wins championships at UT and coaches the Vols longer than JoePa coached PSU.

In year one... Dooley did more with a worse team. That does not mean Jones won't end much better. It just recognizes a truth of what is now history.

 

[sjt18]

Hmmm. I guess that makes me the odd man out, because I spoke out against the Dooley hire here from the very beginning.

I argued for giving the guy a chance (and Fulmer) without condemning him along the way. Many people like Allvol123 did exactly that. They hated Dooley from the start and never acknowledged anything however minor that was good.

I am not condemning or pre-judging Jones. I have consistently said he should get 3 years to show signs he can do it. I think he may be the guy. I have gone on record saying that as we sit now, I think 6-6 next fall would be a strong statement on his part. But it will take much better coaching than we saw in '13. I can't look at something that was not good... and pretend it didn't happen and doesn't matter. The most "shocking" thing to me... is these "positive" folks have such heartburn with that.

 

[Vol8188]

Last time I checked Tiny / Juwuan / Big Dan / AJ don't score touchdowns. Which you need to win games as I recall .




Could be wrong though..

Anyone who doesn't realize you need more than a NG, a MLB, and a couple of offensive linemen to win in the SEC, is mildly retarded at best.

 

[sjt18]

i will also say that before the season, i thought tennessee would go 6-6.

but, if you said before the season that the auburn and missouri would be legit top 10 teams....a 5-7 record would not have shocked anyone.

In retrospect... you could say the same thing about how bad UF was.

 

[fade route]

Oh, my God. The hypocrisy from Fade route is absolutely maddening.

This coming from the guy who threw rage-infested rants about Dooley and his staff for three continuous years. The same, exact argument was given to you during that time, and you're going to preach to somebody else with it?

I had Dools on a shorter leash because his resume did nothing to give me hope that he could get the job done. At least Butch's resume has some success tied to it so I am Giving him more than 12 games to turn it around. Besides, my criticisms of Dooley are logical unlike OregonVol's criticisms of Butch which are completely void of historical context or reality.

 

[sjt18]

Anyone who doesn't realize you need more than a NG, a MLB, and a couple of offensive linemen to win in the SEC, is mildly retarded at best.

Anyone who thinks that is ALL UT had as far as talent on par with say... VANDY... is worse still.

 

[DC Vol]

OL: At a bare minimum 3 draft picks. OL actually played pretty well, IMO. #42 in the nation in rushing isn't great but certainly is better than we have done in several years. Didn't exert presense on field. Didn't dominate games.
I think Tiny goes late 1st, early 2nd.
James goes in the 3rd-4th.
Stone goes in the 4th-5th.
Fulton probably goes FA.

McCullers: Scout's dream of size for DT. He's slow off the LOS and doesn't project his size at all. He'll get drafted purely as a project but he won't go high. His potential would have had him in the 1st Round. His productivity has him way down but, again, he'll be too tasty to pass up. I can see him in the 5th-6th here.

Neal: Played pretty well. Same with OL, didn't dominate but certainly didn't do poorly. I could honestly see him go in the 4th-5th. 5.67ypc in SEC play. If he has a good combine, he'll get drafted.

Miller: If he has a great combine, I think someone could chance a pick on him. He has good measurables and showed up late in the season. I don't see him going higher than the 6th Round even with a great combine showing. By great combine I mean showing a high 4.6 40' and impressive agility for a guy his size. I honestly don't see him drafted but you never know.

AJ Johnson: if he declares, he's getting drafted. I see him pan out like a Rey Maualuga or Vontaze Burfinct. His 40' will shock people and likely lower his draft stock. He's a monster between the tackles but severely lacks sideline pursuit speed. He'd do well on a Defense that wants a physical LB in the middle but has good OLB so he can focus on the only thing he can do. He can't cover, we know that much. Old school slow MLB that lack coverage skills aren't exactly fought over in the NFL anymore.

So, suffice to say, with good combine showings I can see as many as 7 players being drafted. Is this an indictment of wasted talent and potential on the Hill?

I don't think so. AJ was forced to do way too much with poor OLB play. McCullers is just a big teddy bear. OL didn't play that bad. Neal isn't a great player but teams like to have 3 average backs instead of all of their eggs in the basket of 1 great back.

 

[sjt18]

I had Dools on a shorter leash because his resume did nothing to give me hope that he could get the job done.

But the coaching in '13 does?

At least Butch's resume has some success tied to it so I am Giving him more than 12 games to turn it around.

So am I... but the leash as you say isn't as long as it was around the time of UGA and USCe.

 

[99gator]

In retrospect... you could say the same thing about how bad UF was.

the point is valid and the same.

when healthy, where florida was good, they were pretty darn good.

where florida was bad, they suck something fierce.

the difference is all of florida's good and bad are on one side of the ball.

tennessee's good and bad are sprinkled here and there.

 

[sjt18]

How do you feel about the SC win?

Very good.

How did you feel about the Vandy loss or the four losses by 28 or more points (something not done at UT for at least 50 years and maybe never before)? How did you feel about the near miss vs USA?

 

[oregonvol]

Besides, my criticisms of Dooley are logical unlike OregonVol's criticisms of Butch which are completely void of historical context or reality.

...says the guy who thinks the first year of a coach doesn't give any clues as to whether he will be successful or not (even though only 2 of the last 23 SEC Championships were won by guys who had a losing record their first year at their schools).

 

[Vol8188]

Anyone who thinks that is ALL UT had as far as talent on par with say... VANDY... is worse still.

They did out recruit us the last two years if you count everyone whose left from that 2012 class.

They are definitely better than us at DB, QB, and WR. And they were also playing with their first team qb, and best wr. That normally helps a lot. The only position we were def better was oline.

Either way, even great coaches occasionally drop one they shouldn't. Do you think Louisiana Monroe had more talent than Alabama in Saban's first season?

 

[Vol8188]

...says the guy who thinks the first year of a coach doesn't give any clues as to whether he will be successful or not (even though only 2 of the last 23 SEC Championships were won by guys who had a losing record their first year at their schools).

Don't you think that speaks more for the program itself?

 

[YankeeVol]

Bad coaching?

 

[sjt18]

the point is valid and the same.

when healthy, where florida was good, they were pretty darn good.

Jones spotted UF the first half and got back in the game with Worley BEFORE Worley started getting his act together.

If you will remember, Driskell went down. You lost several DB's and an OL in the game. But Jancek managed to make Murphy look like Cam Newton.

tennessee's good and bad are sprinkled here and there.

UT had a 7 win roster. Not a 9 win roster... not an SECE champ roster... a 7 win roster if they had above avg coaching. An average coaching job gets them six.

They didn't get it done. Jones may eventually make all of us forget Saban, Meyer, The Bear, and Neyland... but the first season was an underachievement.

 

[sjt18]

Bad coaching?

Inadequate coaching... bad at times... and a roster with lots of holes.

Good coaching plus that same roster yields six or even 7 wins.

 

[Vol8188]

...says the guy who thinks the first year of a coach doesn't give any clues as to whether he will be successful or not (even though only 2 of the last 23 SEC Championships were won by guys who had a losing record their first year at their schools).

Florida, Georgia, Alabama, LSU, And Auburn. How many of those 23 do they account? And how many losing seasons have they had combined the last decade?

It's not the coaching that makes them special. It's the players.

 

[DC Vol]

Very good.

How did you feel about the Vandy loss or the four losses by 28 or more points (something not done at UT for at least 50 years and maybe never before)? How did you feel about the near miss vs USA?

Every time I try to make a good point to myself about this coaching staff I keep saying to myself:

They lost to Vandy at home after a Bye Week in a must-win scenario.

They lost 4 games by a combined 140 points.

We lost to an inarguably inferior team and were totally outclassed by better teams. In the history of any coach I've ever been able to find... some would get blown out in their first year but no successful coach I could find was consistently blown out like this staff has been.

I get we had a difficult schedule.

I get we had talent issues.

We should have still been able to cobble something together and at least cut those 4 games to a combined 70 points. That's still 17.5/game loss gap. I'd have, sadly enough, been fine with that.

 

[oregonvol]

Florida, Georgia, Alabama, LSU, And Auburn. How many of those 23 do they account? And how many losing seasons have they had combined the last decade?

It's not the coaching that makes them special. It's the players.

Really? How were the players doing at LSU when they went 3-8 the year before Saban got there? Or at Alabama when they went 6-6 in 2004/2006 or 4-9 in 2003? Or how about the players at Auburn who went 2-10 last year?