Six to 10?

[FEARinSEC]

we had talent but we needed a good QB. Plus the schedule beat us down and it was hard for the team to get back up.

simple as that.

Don't try to sell that snake oil around here. It only takes talent (or coaching) to win and we had enough to be 13-0.

/thread

 

[sjt18]

They did out recruit us the last two years if you count everyone whose left from that 2012 class.

They are definitely better than us at DB, QB, and WR. And they were also playing with their first team qb, and best wr. That normally helps a lot. The only position we were def better was oline.

Either way, even great coaches occasionally drop one they shouldn't. Do you think Louisiana Monroe had more talent than Alabama in Saban's first season?

That is the worst of the poor excuses. Jones hasn't won a NC. Saban had. Saban's new team was divided and many didn't buy in. Jones praised the Vols for buying in completely and right away.

UT had more talent at every position. The QB's and WR's they had were more developed. Oddly, Robinette... was a RS Fr... former 3*... from Maryville... that UT didn't recruit. Vandy was pretty much his best offer. Yet there he was... ready to play and effective.

 

[DC Vol]

They did out recruit us the last two years if you count everyone whose left from that 2012 class.

They are definitely better than us at DB, QB, and WR. And they were also playing with their first team qb, and best wr. That normally helps a lot. The only position we were def better was oline.

Either way, even great coaches occasionally drop one they shouldn't. Do you think Louisiana Monroe had more talent than Alabama in Saban's first season?

Bama also lost every game by a combined 36 points.

UT lost multiple games by more than that figure this year alone.

It was obvious, LA-Monroe loss or not, that Bama had a capable staff. Saban had an established track record of success in the SEC. Jones' staff, after the USCe game, looked completely lost and totally outmatched.

 

[FEARinSEC]

I had Dools on a shorter leash because his resume did nothing to give me hope that he could get the job done. At least Butch's resume has some success tied to it so I am Giving him more than 12 games to turn it around. Besides, my criticisms of Dooley are logical unlike OregonVol's criticisms of Butch which are completely void of historical context or reality.

Yep, sounds about right.

 

[sjt18]

Every time I try to make a good point to myself about this coaching staff I keep saying to myself:

They lost to Vandy at home after a Bye Week in a must-win scenario.

They lost 4 games by a combined 140 points.

We lost to an inarguably inferior team and were totally outclassed by better teams. In the history of any coach I've ever been able to find... some would get blown out in their first year but no successful coach I could find was consistently blown out like this staff has been.

I get we had a difficult schedule.

I get we had talent issues.

We should have still been able to cobble something together and at least cut those 4 games to a combined 70 points. That's still 17.5/game loss gap. I'd have, sadly enough, been fine with that.

Right. But when I refuse to look at that and say "Oh, they did a great job considering...." I get accused of wanting them to fail, being negative, yada, yada, yada...

I never knew being honest about things so blatantly, objectively true... was negative?

 

[fade route]

...says the guy who thinks the first year of a coach doesn't give any clues as to whether he will be successful or not (even though only 2 of the last 23 SEC Championships were won by guys who had a losing record their first year at their schools).

What clues about Saban did you pick up after his first year at Bama that included a loss at home to Louisiana Monroe?

 

[oregonvol]

Every time I try to make a good point to myself about this coaching staff I keep saying to myself:

They lost to Vandy at home after a Bye Week in a must-win scenario.

They lost 4 games by a combined 140 points.

We lost to an inarguably inferior team and were totally outclassed by better teams. In the history of any coach I've ever been able to find... some would get blown out in their first year but no successful coach I could find was consistently blown out like this staff has been.

I get we had a difficult schedule.

I get we had talent issues.

We should have still been able to cobble something together and at least cut those 4 games to a combined 70 points. That's still 17.5/game loss gap. I'd have, sadly enough, been fine with that.

Yeah, that's pretty much how I feel too. I'd love to be able to convince myself this season was just a bump in the road or just be able to bury my head in the sand, but it is hard to find historical context (or at least recent historical context, I don't tend to count stuff that happened 25+ years ago when the game, money, competition, and recruiting were so completely different) for a coach just getting blown out repeatedly and losing to inferior opponents in meaningful rivalry games ultimately turning things around and really succeeding long term. It's like searching for a needle in a haystack.

 

[99gator]

Jones spotted UF the first half and got back in the game with Worley BEFORE Worley started getting his act together.

If you will remember, Driskell went down. You lost several DB's and an OL in the game. But Jancek managed to make Murphy look like Cam Newton.



UT had a 7 win roster. Not a 9 win roster... not an SECE champ roster... a 7 win roster if they had above avg coaching. An average coaching job gets them six.

They didn't get it done. Jones may eventually make all of us forget Saban, Meyer, The Bear, and Neyland... but the first season was an underachievement.

meyer made no improvement from zook in his first year. the only difference is that meyer beat georgia in 2005 because dj shockley was hurt and we saw joe t III at qb.

saban went 7-6 at bama.

bear bryant went 1-9 in his first year at texas a&m and 5-4-1 in his first year at bama.

it's the great debate that we have always disagreed on.

i think tennessee lacks talent and so 2013 is not a disappointing season to me. and it's not like tennessee wasn't hit by the injury bug as well.

if you think they have more talent than i believe they do, then the season was a disappointment.

i believe you can get inferior talent to play at a higher level because of coaching skill, but it takes some time to get that out of players. it also helps to have a few ultra talented guys to elevate the play of some of the inferior talent.

tennessee did not have that.

neither did florida. good news for tennessee fans is we know florida didn't have the coaches to elevate the level of play of florida's inferior talent.

 

[3rd_and_Jancek]

What clues about Saban did you pick up after his first year at Bama that included a loss at home to Louisiana Monroe?

Saban had already built a program at LSU and had won a national Championship.

 

[sjt18]

Bama also lost every game by a combined 36 points.

UT lost multiple games by more than that figure this year alone.

It was obvious, LA-Monroe loss or not, that Bama had a capable staff. Saban had an established track record of success in the SEC. Jones' staff, after the USCe game, looked completely lost and totally outmatched.

Bama's widest margin of loss that year was 7 points. They were in every game. Only two of UT's losses this year were by less than 7 points. The 4 blowouts were over before the end of the 1st qtr.

 

[Vol8188]

Yeah, that's pretty much how I feel too. I'd love to be able to convince myself this season was just a bump in the road or just be able to bury my head in the sand, but it is hard to find historical context (or at least recent historical context, I don't tend to count stuff that happened 25+ years ago when the game, money, competition, and recruiting were so completely different) for a coach just getting blown out repeatedly and losing to inferior opponents in meaningful rivalry games ultimately turning things around and really succeeding long term. It's like searching for a needle in a haystack.

Lol the Louisiana Monroe loss doesn't count for Saban because it wasn't a "rivalry game". That's cute.

 

[oregonvol]

What clues about Saban did you pick up after his first year at Bama that included a loss at home to Louisiana Monroe?

Ah, yes. It's Volnation's version of Godwin's Law.

There were plenty of clues when he was blowing out Phillip Fulmer. Not to mention upsetting a top 25 Arkansas team. Still he overhauled the offense and replaced the OC after that season.

 

[DERELICK_MY_VOLS]

Yep... that's the number of departing Vol football players this analyst says could be drafted:

NFL draft analyst: 6-10 Vols could be drafted in 2014 | Nooga.com

So that begs the question... how can a team with "no talent" or insufficient talent to beat Vandy put that many guys in the NFL?


Interesting quote to say the least: "It’s amazing that a team not bowl-eligible has this many potential draftees, but Tennessee could easily have 6-10 draft picks,” he said.

What about all the NFL talent lost off of the offensive side of the ball that would have been seniors this year guy? You know the 2 WR's taken in the 1st (C.P.) and early 2nd (J.H.) rounds and the one kicked off that is playing for the Colts now (Da'Rick R.).....and our starting QB that bolted for the pro's? And the loss of our best TE to graduation last year? In other words....the guys that scored all the points for us last season from the skilled positions which left us with no experienced freshmen and sophomores?

 

[1972 Grad]

Yep... that's the number of departing Vol football players this analyst says could be drafted:

NFL draft analyst: 6-10 Vols could be drafted in 2014 | Nooga.com

So that begs the question... how can a team with "no talent" or insufficient talent to beat Vandy put that many guys in the NFL?


Interesting quote to say the least: "It’s amazing that a team not bowl-eligible has this many potential draftees, but Tennessee could easily have 6-10 draft picks,” he said.

Since Dooley couldn't recruit, how could this be? Will there be others in the next couple of years?

 

[DC Vol]

Here's my take on the matter:

UT improves on Offense and wins 7 games in 2014. Defense doesn't really improve. 2015 class is going well.

Jones fires Jancek and Martinez. Brings in Muschamp (I can have wildly out-of-control dreams) or Pelini. Muschamp has stated he wouldn't want to coach at his alma mater and might want a shot at Florida. UT is now stocked with young defensive talent in all position groups which is the first time in a long time UT has been able to say that when trying to lure in a high profile coordinator.

Regardless, we should open the bank as much as we can to bring in a high-profile DC here. First mission was to get talent in, even if that sacrifices coaching. Then you bring better coaches in.

At least that's what I hope. Again, I honestly don't think Bajakian was the problem. I don't know that he's the solution but honestly I don't think he was the biggest problem on this staff.

 

[oregonvol]

meyer made no improvement from zook in his first year. the only difference is that meyer beat georgia in 2005 because dj shockley was hurt and we saw joe t III at qb.

Huh? Meyer beat UT in his first year as well and finished 9-3. Zook went 7-4 the year before.

 

[fade route]

Saban had already built a program at LSU and had won a national Championship.

And Butch has won everywhere he's been...think we ought to give him more than 12 games?

 

[DC Vol]

Since Dooley couldn't recruit, how could this be? Will there be others in the next couple of years?

To be totally fair, James and Miller are both Kiffin recruits.

 

[volfan411]

I defended the proposition that Fulmer should get his chance to turn the ship around. I, like so many here are doing, argued that we should avoid discussin negatives until it was time to act. I then did the same with Dooley.

I didn't "defend" either of them... just the idea that you hold judgment until it was time to make a final judgment.

I was wrong.

The balance of judgment is being loaded from the moment a coach says "I do". Jones has done some super things that are very easy to defend or praise. But the on field performance of his players and coaches in year one left much to be desired... and yes even for a team with a 1st year coach.

I for one am not sure you were wrong I think a lot of fans underestimated the point our program had fallen to. Looking back I think the fan base including myself was not fair to Dooley as he was judged way before it was time and he did absolutely nothing to change peoples opinion.

I have said it for a couple of years Dooley's biggest failure was his lack of recruiting quality defensive players and it ultimately cost him his job and we are still paying the price for that today.

 

[3rd_and_Jancek]

And Butch has won everywhere he's been...think we ought to give him more than 12 games?

Who is talking about firing Butch?

 

[DC Vol]

Huh? Meyer beat UT in his first year as well and finished 9-3. Zook went 7-4 the year before.

At Florida you either win double-digit games or you're trash.

Also, clearly, beating UT means absolutely nothing to them.

 

[99gator]

and i must write this in its own post.....

anyone who puts jacques smith and nfl in the same sentence should seek medical attention.

now having said that, i will wait and watch the jaguars trade up to draft him in the first round.

 

[Vol8188]

Ah, yes. It's Volnation's version of Godwin's Law.

There were plenty of clues when he was blowing out Phillip Fulmer. Not to mention upsetting a top 25 Arkansas team. Still he overhauled the offense and replaced the OC after that season.

O, I forgot we didn't upset any top 25 teams.

 

[fade route]

Who is talking about firing Butch?

I'm talking about giving him more than 12 games before you conclude that he can't coach.

 

[99gator]

Huh? Meyer beat UT in his first year as well and finished 9-3. Zook went 7-4 the year before.

tennessee had a losing record in 2005. how much street cred should meyer get for that win?

the difference for florida in 2005 from 2004 (mainly) was beating georgia due to an injured qb and florida won the bowl game in 2005 and lost the bowl game in 2004.