So let's just say that...

#101
#101
cncchris33 said:
Appreciate it, but honestly that is simply a summary of other things I've said in parts in other threads.

I think you have me pinned incorrectly based on old information/opinions and partial opinions from other posts that are discussing other issues.

Believe me when I say the above has been my stance since the NCSU debacle.
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Chris I believe you.:good!:
 
#102
#102
VolsSportsFan said:
Because they are mutually exclusive. One really doesn't have anything to do with the other.

I don't like Obama; but that doesn't mean I want Bush back.
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Mutually exclusive??


Wanting CCM gone doesn't have to mean wanting CBP back but it darn sure could.



Btw I will take W back yesterday!
 
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#104
#104
johnnybravo said:
Hart will have to give him an extension if he is not fired this year. I'm not so sure he will do that especially since he didn't give him one last year.
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He can give a 1-year extension that lowers the buyout. This will show recruits he "has faith" in CCM, but also reduces the university's commitment financially if year 4 goes how most assume it probably will sans McRae, Maymon, Barton, and likely Stokes.

This has much the same effect as not extending him at all, but gives a cosmetic spin on the ADs support level.
 
#106
#106
cncchris33 said:
He can give a 1-year extension that lowers the buyout. This will show recruits he "has faith" in CCM, but also reduces the university's commitment financially if year 4 goes how most assume it probably will sans McRae, Maymon, Barton, and likely Stokes.

This has much the same effect as not extending him at all, but gives a cosmetic spin on the ADs support level.
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His contract says that he gets 60% for year 4 and 5 iirc. Giving him 1 more year means he gets 60% for year 5 and whatever extension he gets. I'm not so sure that a contract will have to be renegotiated if the buyout is not the same as previous years. That's basically what an extension is. An extra year on the contract. If you get canned, then you get paid for it or at least a percentage of it. I'm not so sure CCM will renegotiate a contract with a less percentage on the buyout. Why would he?
 
#107
#107
johnnybravo said:
His contract says that he gets 60% for year 4 and 5 iirc. Giving him 1 more year means he gets 60% for year 5 and whatever extension he gets. I'm not so sure that a contract will have to be renegotiated if the buyout is not the same as previous years. That's basically what an extension is. An extra year on the contract. If you get canned, then you get paid for it or at least a percentage of it. I'm not so sure CCM will renegotiate a contract with a less percentage on the buyout. Why would he?
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Why would he???


That seems easy.

Get an extension(not exactly what he wants) or not get one at all.


Not getting one at all would kill recruiting.

That's why he would sign less than he wanted
 
#108
#108
CAVol said:
This team manages to make the tournament and makes a sweet 16 run. Would peoples' opinion of Martin change or would you still want him gone?
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There are only (2) ways that I see us in the tourney. (1) We win more than 13 S.E.C. conference games (2) We win the S.E.C. tourney in late Feb. or early March, to qualify for the NCAA.

Of course, I can't recall us ever winning the S.E.C. tourney.

Money $$$$ distates that we will keep Martin until his buy out is very low. So, he will be here at least in 2014 and possibly longer.

If he can't win this season with a veteran team, sprinkled with some youngsters, then I don't see him ever getting it done here.

He is a high character guy and a fine representative of the University and a good recruiter but "he isn't selling enough popcorn"
 
#109
#109
johnnybravo said:
His contract says that he gets 60% for year 4 and 5 iirc. Giving him 1 more year means he gets 60% for year 5 and whatever extension he gets. I'm not so sure that a contract will have to be renegotiated if the buyout is not the same as previous years. That's basically what an extension is. An extra year on the contract. If you get canned, then you get paid for it or at least a percentage of it. I'm not so sure CCM will renegotiate a contract with a less percentage on the buyout. Why would he?
Click to expand...

It would have to be renegotiated, but you could negotiate only the extended period (one year in this case). You could give even bump his pay from $1.3 to $1.4 million on the extra season (money you would easily recoup by reducing the buyout % on that extension year to 30%).

As for Martin's incentive to sign it; it beats the heck out of not getting an extension, especially if he fears getting fired after year four. If he refuses to sign it, he's created his own bad publicity to recruits (something he can't really afford to do), and forfeited an extra year's buyout if fired at 30% of $1.4 million...or $420k.

If he signs an extension similar to what I detailed, and is fired after next season, he would receive 60% of $1.3 million for year 5 of his original deal ($780k) plus 30% of $1.4 million for the extended year ($420k). If he refused the offer from the university, he'd forfeit the show of good faith from the admin. and the extra money.

He's not much in the position to be picky.
 
#110
#110
knowthevols said:
In the first place I have not said he should be let go right now, that is another made up job. And I have not seen where anyone has said they will be done with UT basketball if Pearl is not hired back. I have read a post where someone said they were through with Tennessee if Pearl is hired back. You guys would make good politicians, you have the bait and switch game down pat.
Click to expand...

A) I never said YOU said it, I said those in the "Hire Pearl" crowd; and it has been said repeatedly.

B) Then you clearly haven't been reading closely enough. There has been more than one person post that if Pearl isn't hired back, that they were done with UT basketball. One post even said if didn't happen UT could go eff themselves.
 
#112
#112
VolsSportsFan said:
A) I never said YOU said it, I said those in the "Hire Pearl" crowd; and it has been said repeatedly.

B) Then you clearly haven't been reading closely enough. There has been more than one person post that if Pearl isn't hired back, that they were done with UT basketball. One post even said if didn't happen UT could go eff themselves.
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Well I wasn't aware someone had posted that and they were wrong in doing so in my opinion. We may argue, but we are still vols and I do believe we all want whats best for our university.
 
#114
#114
Shaun1985 said:
Also, next season will be a major fail. We'll struggle to win double digit games.
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People keep saying this, I'm begging someone put something up on this. I will bet anyone, anything they want that thinks this team won't win 10 games next year.

That's such an idiotic statement it's almost surely sarcasm, right?
 
#115
#115
1985Vols said:
You smart azzes can make fun of everyone else all you want but truth be known, you don't know any more about BB than the rest of us if you think we are getting adequate guard play out of this team. I'm talking about, Barton, Richardson, Hubbs, and Thompson. McRae is getting his points, albeit 3 for 12 from beyond the arc against NC St. is pretty bad and if he remains our only threat, it's going to be a long season.
Click to expand...

Why so sensitive? He had one bad shooting game so our 2 guard isn't giving us production, but then you say he's our only threat? Ummm ok...I didn't say we were getting adequate guard play, I simply made a joke about you referencing the 2 spot. Do you need a hug?
 
#116
#116
bleedingTNorange said:
People keep saying this, I'm begging someone put something up on this. I will bet anyone, anything they want that thinks this team won't win 10 games next year.

That's such an idiotic statement it's almost surely sarcasm, right?
Click to expand...

Nah, too many games not to get to 10. But if you game me 15 I might take it. :)
 
#117
#117
bleedingTNorange said:
People keep saying this, I'm begging someone put something up on this. I will bet anyone, anything they want that thinks this team won't win 10 games next year.

That's such an idiotic statement it's almost surely sarcasm, right?
Click to expand...

I'll bet you one million doll hairs!
 
#118
#118
CAVol said:
Exactly. If it happens would it restore your faith in him? Or is everyone just giving up on him regardless of how this season finishes?
Click to expand...

It wouldn't restore my faith in him personally as a coach, but I would feel a lot better about the current players. For him to change my opinion of his coaching abilities he would have to show marked improvement in game management, scouting, preparation, motivation.

We made a gamble that involved a knwon risk: In order to get the "next hot coach" as an up-and-comer, we had to take the risk that since he was inexperienced he would consistently grown in the job. We knew we took a coach who was not ripe and meeded more development, so we gambled that he would continue to develop into the finished product that we were looking for. He has not continued to grow and progress as a coach. So, it turns out, we lost on the gamble. We need to cut our losses and go get a seasoned, very experienced coach.

Maybe it's a gut feeling, more in my heart than my head, but I think our basketball program may be a lot like Auburn's football team was last year: a bunch of talented individuals who are not playing as a team, are not motivated, and do not believe in the current coach or his system. If that's the case, then I don't think THE RIGHT new coach would have a hard time winning quickly with them. Malzahn has demonstrated, although on an absudly high level that doesn't exactly relate here, that a coach who recruits well but doesn't coach well can be replaced by a coach with an exciting system that the players believe in and win right away.

I REALLY hope Dave Hart and Gregg Marshall ran into each other somewhere private, "accidentally" of course, while in Wichita and were able to have a brief but productive conversation. Something like: "Hey how's it hanging, GM? By the way, will you be our next coach? Ok great, see you in April."

TVOL71 said:
I think if they make NCAA, he stays, may get an extension. If they make the NIT, he gets one more year, but must make the NCAA next year to stay after that. If they don't make any tournament, he is gone.
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Making the NIT will not save his job IMO. In fact, it will remind everyone that our reliable, ol' faithful NCAA tournament program has been reduced to a mediocre reliable NIT one. Three straight years of same start / same finish will simply drive home the point. Keeping CCM will simply be a money decision if it happens.

Personally I think Dave Hart is so quiet on the basketball front that it speaks volumes. I figure he's made up his mind by now and will just be figuring out how and when to do it. I figure he sees Cuonzo as a the last non-DH decision that needs to be purged so the AD officially has his stamp on it.
 
#119
#119
BadJerry20 said:
Why so sensitive? He had one bad shooting game so our 2 guard isn't giving us production, but then you say he's our only threat? Ummm ok...I didn't say we were getting adequate guard play, I simply made a joke about you referencing the 2 spot. Do you need a hug?
Click to expand...

Vol brothers dont shake hands, vol brothers gotta hug!!!

Farley2.jpg
 
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#121
#121
VolsSportsFan said:
A) I never said YOU said it, I said those in the "Hire Pearl" crowd; and it has been said repeatedly.

B) Then you clearly haven't been reading closely enough. There has been more than one person post that if Pearl isn't hired back, that they were done with UT basketball. One post even said if didn't happen UT could go eff themselves.
Click to expand...

Don't forget the myriad of posts saying that they would root for Pearl's new team against UT.
 
#122
#122
ShoalCreekVol said:
It wouldn't restore my faith in him personally as a coach, but I would feel a lot better about the current players. For him to change my opinion of his coaching abilities he would have to show marked improvement in game management, scouting, preparation, motivation.

We made a gamble that involved a knwon risk: In order to get the "next hot coach" as an up-and-comer, we had to take the risk that since he was inexperienced he would consistently grown in the job. We knew we took a coach who was not ripe and meeded more development, so we gambled that he would continue to develop into the finished product that we were looking for. He has not continued to grow and progress as a coach. So, it turns out, we lost on the gamble. We need to cut our losses and go get a seasoned, very experienced coach.

Maybe it's a gut feeling, more in my heart than my head, but I think our basketball program may be a lot like Auburn's football team was last year: a bunch of talented individuals who are not playing as a team, are not motivated, and do not believe in the current coach or his system. If that's the case, then I don't think THE RIGHT new coach would have a hard time winning quickly with them. Malzahn has demonstrated, although on an absudly high level that doesn't exactly relate here, that a coach who recruits well but doesn't coach well can be replaced by a coach with an exciting system that the players believe in and win right away.

I REALLY hope Dave Hart and Gregg Marshall ran into each other somewhere private, "accidentally" of course, while in Wichita and were able to have a brief but productive conversation. Something like: "Hey how's it hanging, GM? By the way, will you be our next coach? Ok great, see you in April."



Making the NIT will not save his job IMO. In fact, it will remind everyone that our reliable, ol' faithful NCAA tournament program has been reduced to a mediocre reliable NIT one. Three straight years of same start / same finish will simply drive home the point. Keeping CCM will simply be a money decision if it happens.

Personally I think Dave Hart is so quiet on the basketball front that it speaks volumes. I figure he's made up his mind by now and will just be figuring out how and when to do it. I figure he sees Cuonzo as a the last non-DH decision that needs to be purged so the AD officially has his stamp on it.
Click to expand...

I agree that Hart's silence is speaking volumes and he has seen the writing on the wall.
 
#123
#123
bleedingTNorange said:
People keep saying this, I'm begging someone put something up on this. I will bet anyone, anything they want that thinks this team won't win 10 games next year.

That's such an idiotic statement it's almost surely sarcasm, right?
Click to expand...

Next year if Stokes leaves there will be no trace of anyone connected to the former staff and Coach Martin will truly have only have his own guys. With that being said wouldn't we expect the product to be better?
 
#124
#124
bleedingTNorange said:
In your opinion maybe, but you aren't the one that makes those decisions.
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Surely you aren't suggesting that people making the decisions aren't noticing all these "ifs" that have already happened:

Zero NCAA trips
Very little fan excitement
28-24 Pre February record
Attendence decreasing
Lack of support from $ donors
sexual related departures of players
Embarrassing losses to subpar competition



Surely you aren't niave enough to suggest that the administration isn't noticing these???
 
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