Socialism Fails Everytime ...

[luthervol]

Lol absolutely ridiculous. Then you should work hard, profit off others, and do with it as you see fit.

Thanks, my life is great.

 

[luthervol]

Sure you do. If any of that is true and they share your views about government run healthcare then they are obviously being paid under the table to think that way. Regardless of what you think, government run healthcare is an abject failure across the board. The VA and medicare are absolute frauds. You dont even get to hear about the true horrors of what happens when the government has control of a healthcare system. But you are going to believe whatever you want.

It still is hard to believe that in this day and age, someone would actually support any form of Socialism. Even with all the historical data that says its an utter failure, you still believe that a Socialistic system would be successful in the US. You really need to reprioritize your views luther.

Who said they agree with me? Some a little more than others.
How brainwashed are you? The term "socialism" scares you that much?
Some of the best aspects of our country and huge portions of the foundation on which capitalism was/is able to flourish, are socialistic. What's wrong with that?

 

[C-south]

Thanks, my life is great.

Because you’re a greedy hypocrite.

 

[AshG]

Who said they agree with me? Some a little more than others.
How brainwashed are you? The term "socialism" scares you that much?
Some of the best aspects of our country and huge portions of the foundation on which capitalism was/is able to flourish, are socialistic. What's wrong with that?

What's wrong with that? The word socialism?

The need to boil everything down to a single image or word and redefine it to be as positive or negative as possible.

The simplicity of a Me vs everyone else culture.

The banality of a black vs white ideology with no room for the grey that covers 99% of the actual issues.

Both sides' extremes are idiots and those next to them who enable that mindset are complicit.

 

[luthervol]

Because you’re a greedy hypocrite.

Not at all. You don't have to be greedy to have a great life, even though that is the keystone of the republican party.

 

[C-south]

Not at all. You don't have to be greedy to have a great life, even though that is the keystone of the republican party.

I can promise you that GREED isn’t party affiliated.

 

[ClearwaterVol]

Sure you do. If any of that is true and they share your views about government run healthcare then they are obviously being paid under the table to think that way. Regardless of what you think, government run healthcare is an abject failure across the board. The VA and medicare are absolute frauds. You dont even get to hear about the true horrors of what happens when the government has control of a healthcare system. But you are going to believe whatever you want.

It still is hard to believe that in this day and age, someone would actually support any form of Socialism. Even with all the historical data that says its an utter failure, you still believe that a Socialistic system would be successful in the US. You really need to reprioritize your views luther.

That's why Europeans are demanding a switch to an American style system.

 

[C-south]

Sure you do. If any of that is true and they share your views about government run healthcare then they are obviously being paid under the table to think that way. Regardless of what you think, government run healthcare is an abject failure across the board. The VA and medicare are absolute frauds. You dont even get to hear about the true horrors of what happens when the government has control of a healthcare system. But you are going to believe whatever you want.

It still is hard to believe that in this day and age, someone would actually support any form of Socialism. Even with all the historical data that says its an utter failure, you still believe that a Socialistic system would be successful in the US. You really need to reprioritize your views luther.

Nobody deserves to be successful or wealthy in the resident libs eyes. “Society” should benefit from someone else’s hard work.

 

[0nelilreb]

That's why Europeans are demanding a switch to an American style system.

Show us some population sizes of these Euro countries and their tax rates . They don’t demand they switch to an American size military force either but who do they call when they want something done ? We are not Europe , they for damn sure aren’t American , not many comparisons can be made between the two and it be fair .

 

[volinbham]

That's why Europeans are demanding a switch to an American style system.

The Swiss system is more market driven than ours. It's all private insurance.

 

[luthervol]

I can promise you that GREED isn’t party affiliated.

Yea, maybe just a little bit.

 

[1972 Grad]

That's pretty much the way things should be. There is a difference between can't work and won't work. Can't afford a basic HC plan and would rather buy booze, smokes and a cell phone.

Don't forget tats.

 

[C-south]

Yea, maybe just a little bit.

Lol. Didn’t you vote for that hag Hillary?

 

[AshG]

What in the hell are you talking about? (I chose that verbiage on purpose.)

Midrash, with historical context. Gospel untainted by the Fifield heresy.

You don't happen to be a premillenial dispensationalist, would you?

 

[Mick]

The Swiss system is more market driven than ours. It's all private insurance.

They have an individual mandate.

 

[1972 Grad]

LOL

Then please explain why few if any major medical breakthroughs come from countries with socialized healthcare?

That's easy. Everybody else's educational system pales compared to ours. We have all the smart people.

 

[volinbham]

They have an individual mandate.

Indeed - you have to buy insurance but the state provides no insurance, zip, nada. It's all provided by private (and yes many for-profit) companies. These companies compete with each other for customers.

 

[Mick]

Indeed - you have to buy insurance but the state provides no insurance, zip, nada. It's all provided by private (and yes many for-profit) companies. These companies compete with each other for customers.

.The Swiss healthcare system | Interpharma

They still recognize the social responsibilities and use tax dollars to support the system.

You talked me into it. Let's do Healthcare like the Swiss.

Like CW said, they don't want our system.

 

[volinbham]

.The Swiss healthcare system | Interpharma

They still recognize the social responsibilities and use tax dollars to support the system.

You talked me into it. Let's do Healthcare like the Swiss.

I'm not opposed but it's still more market-based (and insurance for profit) than the US system.

We technically still have an individual mandate. What we have that the Swiss do not is Medicare and Medicaid (government payers).

As I understand it the minimum required coverage in Switzerland is less than that of the ACA and the expected contribution per covered patient is more. IOW - most people in the US have better coverage than the minimum mandate there.

I doubt we would accept the Swiss system.

 

[Mick]

I'm not opposed but it's still more market-based (and insurance for profit) than the US system.

We technically still have an individual mandate. What we have that the Swiss do not is Medicare and Medicaid (government payers).

As I understand it the minimum required coverage in Switzerland is less than that of the ACA and the expected contribution per covered patient is more. IOW - most people in the US have better coverage than the minimum mandate there.

I doubt we would accept the Swiss system.

Duties and responsibilities in the Swiss health care system are divided among the federal, cantonal, and municipal levels of government. The system can be considered highly decentralized, as the cantons play a critical role. Each of the 26 cantons (including six half-cantons) has its own constitution and is responsible for licensing providers, coordinating hospital services, and subsidizing institutions and individual premiums. The federal government plays an important role in regulating the financing of the system, which is effected through mandatory health insurance (MHI) and other social insurance; ensuring the quality and safety of pharmaceuticals and medical devices; overseeing public health initiatives; and promoting research and training. The municipalities, in turn, are responsible mainly for long-term care (nursing homes and home care services) and other social support services for vulnerable groups.
All government expenditures on health are financed by general taxation. In 2014, direct spending by government accounted for 20.1 percent of total health expenditures (CHF71.2 billion, or USD55.8 billion), while income-based MHI subsidies accounted for an additional 5.6 percent.2 Including MHI premiums (31.0% of total health expenditure, excluding statutory subsidies), other social insurance schemes (6.3%), and old-age and disability benefits (4.4%), publicly financed health care accounted for 67.4 percent of all spending.3

Switzerland : International Health Care System Profiles
It seems to me they have quite a bit of government money from just general taxes that support the system to meet their social obligations.

 

[Boca Vol]

Yea, maybe just a little bit.

LULZ....the last 2 Dem presidents (Clinton & Obama) sposebly didn't have a pot to piss in and are suddenly worth hundreds of millions vs. the last 4 Rep. Presidents (Reagan, GB41, GB43, and Trump) who were already wealthy when they took office. Who financially benefited more?

 

[Obsessed]

LULZ....the last 2 Dem presidents (Clinton & Obama) sposebly didn't have a pot to piss in and are suddenly worth hundreds of millions vs. the last 4 Rep. Presidents (Reagan, GB41, GB43, and Trump) who were already wealthy when they took office. Who financially benefited more?

Well to be fair...
The clintons did have all that money from running drugs and guns from south of the border....

 

[volinbham]

Duties and responsibilities in the Swiss health care system are divided among the federal, cantonal, and municipal levels of government. The system can be considered highly decentralized, as the cantons play a critical role. Each of the 26 cantons (including six half-cantons) has its own constitution and is responsible for licensing providers, coordinating hospital services, and subsidizing institutions and individual premiums. The federal government plays an important role in regulating the financing of the system, which is effected through mandatory health insurance (MHI) and other social insurance; ensuring the quality and safety of pharmaceuticals and medical devices; overseeing public health initiatives; and promoting research and training. The municipalities, in turn, are responsible mainly for long-term care (nursing homes and home care services) and other social support services for vulnerable groups.
All government expenditures on health are financed by general taxation. In 2014, direct spending by government accounted for 20.1 percent of total health expenditures (CHF71.2 billion, or USD55.8 billion), while income-based MHI subsidies accounted for an additional 5.6 percent.2 Including MHI premiums (31.0% of total health expenditure, excluding statutory subsidies), other social insurance schemes (6.3%), and old-age and disability benefits (4.4%), publicly financed health care accounted for 67.4 percent of all spending.3

Switzerland : International Health Care System Profiles
It seems to me they have quite a bit of government money from just general taxes that support the system to meet their social obligations.

And we don't?

Total HC spending

Historical - Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services

Spending by government on HC

How much does the federal government spend on health care?

Looking at these 2; we spend at total of 3.5 trillion on HC and the Federal government provides 1.35 trillion of that.

At the Federal level alone we cover about 40% of all HC spending and that does not include state (Medicaid contribution) and local contributions.

I've seen estimates that total government support is at the same 2/3rds you see for Switzerland.

What's different is that they let the market provide insurance rather than having the government (single payer) do it.

 

[Mick]

And we don't?

Total HC spending

Historical - Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services

Spending by government on HC

How much does the federal government spend on health care?

Looking at these 2; we spend at total of 3.5 trillion on HC and the Federal government provides 1.35 trillion of that.

At the Federal level alone we cover about 40% of all HC spending and that does not include state (Medicaid contribution) and local contributions.

I've seen estimates that total government support is at the same 2/3rds you see for Switzerland.

What's different is that they let the market provide insurance rather than having the government (single payer) do it.

"What we have that the Swiss do not is Medicare and Medicaid" Your words.
You said they didn't have medicare and medicaid and it appears they have something like it . That is the only point I was trying to make, taxes are used to provide a social obligation. Thanks for the stats.

 

[volinbham]

"What we have that the Swiss do not is Medicare and Medicaid" Your words.
You said they didn't have medicare and medicaid and it appears they have something like it . That is the only point I was trying to make, taxes are used to provide a social obligation. Thanks for the stats.

Medicare and Medicaid are government sources of insurance. The Swiss do not have those. We have basically the same social obligation but they use market forces (private insurance) as opposed to a mix of public (Medicare/Medicaid) and private as in the US.

I prefer the Swiss approach. I also believe (will verify) that the minimum required coverage is less comprehensive than the ACA which included a bunch of goodies for the base as opposed to what do we thing everyone should be covered for.

My bigger point (not to you) is that people confuse universal healthcare (a mandate that all are covered) with single payer (ala Medicare for all). The number of countries with only single payer (like Canada) is actually pretty small.