Socialism Fails Everytime ...

#351
#351
0nelilreb said:
Sounds like a good way for the “military” to decide what President / leader/ king/ emperor / dicatator should be in power and when they should “ go away “ . But hey if you think it’s a good idea I’m sure it will be fine .
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My point is not that I think it would be a good idea. My point is that "socialist" programs work. Yes, there are inefficiencies, but on whole it is more effective than allowing the free market to handle it.
 
#353
#353
ClearwaterVol said:
My point is not that I think it would be a good idea. My point is that "socialist" programs work. Yes, there are inefficiencies, but on whole it is more effective than allowing the free market to handle it.
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In the case of the VA, maybe not so much.

Anyway...

If you want to do away with the military and "privatize" it, we could go back to the idea of a citizen-soldier and take all that National Firearms Act of 1934 and Gun Control Act of 1968 stuff away.
 
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#354
#354
It's kinda sad. I took a couple of days off political talk figuring some might come up with decent arguments and CWV doesn't want to play.
 
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#355
#355
ClearwaterVol said:
Have military a budget that gets paid to private defense firms. We can then ditch the VA all of the military retirement and have the job of soldier treated like any other occupation. The firms under contract can provide whatever benefits they deem necessary to compete in the free market.
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For low intensity conflicts private contractors might be a viable option, couldn't subject them to UCMJ though. For a major war? No.
 
#358
#358
hog88 said:
Why?
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1. Cost. Every PMC that has ever been hired has come with an inordinate cost associated with that contract. Are they "better" than using US troops? Nope. Many times, especially with the restrictions placed on them, they go out and hire third country nationals to perform the "base level" security while pocketing the rest of the funds.

2. They'll still be subsidized through the government in some shape or form. I take the airlines as an example of this. For every new airliner the big airlines purchase, there's generally a loan from the US government helping with that purchase cost. So, the government will still end up helping purchase higher end equipment for said contractors before it's said and done.

3. Regardless of how "private" it is, the deeds and actions of said contractor will still be linked and attributed to the US Government. And if they are a little more fast and loose with the rules of engagement and cause yet another Nisour Square massacre, those actions will be on the government's head. And you end up with stupid crap like this:

Emails Reveal Discord Over Blackwater Charges

Can't get anything else to fly? Toss in a weapons charge even though they were not on US soil and the weapons didn't fall under the purview of the USG at the time.

4. Even as much as you and I can complain about it, the professional aspect of the US Armed Forces cannot be overlooked. Sure, there might be some companies with a vested interest in what they are doing, but by and large, their overall goal is "get home alive and get paid." As you mentioned, the UCMJ aspect keeps most military in check from questionable actions. Not as much with PMC groups.

5. Before Huff jumps in with his "letters of marque and reprisal" argument, that's basically saying the US Government supports piracy and "terrorism". I use the terrorism term loosely since one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist. However, those letters of marque and reprisal basically give a carte blanche to groups to act in their own interests. Including actions which would seem extremely contrary to our government's beliefs.

No, we have a professional military for a reason. I'm all about stopping the wasteful spending we often see and providing better combat training, better equipment and better benefits to our troops rather than have to rely on third party contractors. Enough of the touchy feely social experiments and get back to the main mission of killing people and breaking their toys.
 
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#359
#359
tennvols77 said:
Socialism fails because of human nature, when you can have a man or woman who can't be bought, can't be bribed, is willing to fight and die for that way of life with no personal gain or benefit, then it might work. But, it won't, because if that person exists, they'll be killed and replaced by someone not as virtuous.

That is why socialism will always fail.
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It doesn't have to be one or the other in their purest form... but what we have seen is that the proper mix of capitalism and socialism, can and does work. Name just one pure capitalist society that has ever existed... There has never been one.
 
#360
#360
Ple
tennvols77 said:
"Social security, Medicare/Medicaid, the military, national parks, unemployment are all social programs"....yes, but besides the Military which is an inclusive self sustaining organization, the other things show just how bad government is at managing anything.
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Please explain how the military is “an inclusive self sustaining organization”
 
#361
#361
McDad said:
Cash or private pay patients pay the least per procedure by a wide margin.
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This. A million times this. I have medical only thru my company, BCBS...its decent coverage for me. To add the wife and kids is 300 dollars a week from my take home...impossible for us...so they have no insurance and i had to pay penalties under barrycare. When wife goes to doctor or dentist, or i go to dentist...they hand us a bill or show us a screen with what is owed. Then we tell them its out of pocket self pay, and they cut the bill by 30 to 40%...on the spot.

How many different ways is that bullcrap and unethical? THE reason we cant afford insurance is the extra 40% they gouge insurance companies for makes premiums ridiculous...how in the hell did this ever become common practice, and why isnt it illegal? Should be insurance fraud. If my tools get stolen out of my truck, and i go to claim it on insurance, if i add 30 or 40% to the cost of my tools...i would be arrested and charged with fraud. That is stealing. Period. Getting creative with codes, billing for tests and exams not performed, charging 50 bucks for a tylenol...its stealing. All of it. Absolute bullcrap...and a doctor who does that is no better than a lawyer who charges you an hour at 200 dollars for making a phone call and sending an email. Its stealing. Period. Stop it. You assholes
 
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#363
#363
CABVOL said:
Anyone with a military background that did any type of handling of supplies knows exactly how wasteful the military is. They buy a bunch a unneeded stuff at the end of the fiscal year just so they don’t have next year’s budget reduced.
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This year the military should build a wall kit and start assembling it along our southern border.
 
#364
#364
ClearwaterVol said:
They are government workers. They run a operation without regard for cost.
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Put some of the blame where it belongs ... congressional critters. They like military spending that brings home the bacon to their states and districts; not all military spending originates within the military.

And as I recall, the military doesn't have a free hand in what they do ... like Gen Ripper can't wake up some bright morning and say "I think we're gonna go down to Mexico and kill us some drug lords."
 
#365
#365
marcusluvsvols said:
This. A million times this. I have medical only thru my company, BCBS...its decent coverage for me. To add the wife and kids is 300 dollars a week from my take home...impossible for us...so they have no insurance and i had to pay penalties under barrycare. When wife goes to doctor or dentist, or i go to dentist...they hand us a bill or show us a screen with what is owed. Then we tell them its out of pocket self pay, and they cut the bill by 30 to 40%...on the spot.

How many different ways is that bullcrap and unethical? THE reason we cant afford insurance is the extra 40% they gouge insurance companies for makes premiums ridiculous...how in the hell did this ever become common practice, and why isnt it illegal? Should be insurance fraud. If my tools get stolen out of my truck, and i go to claim it on insurance, if i add 30 or 40% to the cost of my tools...i would be arrested and charged with fraud. That is stealing. Period. Getting creative with codes, billing for tests and exams not performed, charging 50 bucks for a tylenol...its stealing. All of it. Absolute bullcrap...and a doctor who does that is no better than a lawyer who charges you an hour at 200 dollars for making a phone call and sending an email. Its stealing. Period. Stop it. You assholes
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One thing you have to remember is that restriction about turning away patients who can't pay. Providers have to make up the cost some way for freeloaders and those the choose to help as indigent patients. I'm certainly not saying everyone who can't pay falls into that category; you just gave us a good example of someone working and unable. However, there are plenty more people who choose their own preferred lifestyle over being able to pay for life's necessities. I think that's why libs want medical care to be a right rather than something you deal with as an individual ... perhaps food will be the next item they pull into the required service tent.
 
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#367
#367
BigOrangeTrain said:
Lol. Yet another one who is unfamiliar. So you dont see any coincidence in every situation where Socialisim has risen there is a dictator behind it? Socialism is a failure. If you cannot understand that then there is no hope for you. Yes there a few elements of Socialism that are good, but they are few and far between. Ask yourself why exactly do most logical people think badly when Socialism is mentioned. Maybe because of the historical examples if a Socialistic society that has tirned countries into crap holes. SocialSecurity is a ponzi scheme. Medicare is a way for government to control your healthcare options in your senior years.

Socialism breeds dictators. Why? Because it virtually guarantees ultimate power to a government. But keep on thinking that Socialism is just this innocent system that is good for everyone. But you are wrong.
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I see the European nations are avoided again because that completely destroys the socialism is bad myth. Explain why many European countries do so much better if socialism is so bad. Those countries have better ranked education and healthcare continually and pretty good workers rights and benefits.

Socialism doesn’t work in the extremes like any form of government. Any communist/social government always falls to ruin as it’s founded usually during a revolution and/or in a low poverty/agricultural economy: Russia, Cuba, Venezuela, etc.
 
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#368
#368
USMC-TNVOL said:
I see the European nations are avoided again because that completely destroys the socialism is bad myth. Explain why many European countries do so much better if socialism is so bad. Those countries have better ranked education and healthcare continually and pretty good workers rights and benefits.

Socialism doesn’t work in the extremes like any form of government. Any communist/social government always falls to ruin as it’s founded usually during a revolution and/or in a low poverty/agricultural economy: Russia, Cuba, Venezuela, etc.
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What are the demographics of the specific European countries you admire vs the demographics of the countries you don’t?
 
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#370
#370
USMC-TNVOL said:
I see the European nations are avoided again because that completely destroys the socialism is bad myth. Explain why many European countries do so much better if socialism is so bad. Those countries have better ranked education and healthcare continually and pretty good workers rights and benefits.

Socialism doesn’t work in the extremes like any form of government. Any communist/social government always falls to ruin as it’s founded usually during a revolution and/or in a low poverty/agricultural economy: Russia, Cuba, Venezuela, etc.
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They suckle at the teet of freedom we provide for them.
 
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#372
#372
Hate to be Capt obvious...but I am pretty sure he is waiting for you to say "Norway medical rocks!" So then he can point out that norway is smaller than some US states, and has a 94% aryan population with about half the diabetes, obesity, etc that we have...and maybe 20 to 30 million people? Where probably 90% of working aged people actually have jobs and are contributors to their economy...whereas there are almost as many "takers" as "makers" here...and there are as many people in JAIL and PRISON in the US as there are in Norway....


Sound about right?
 
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#373
#373
USMC-TNVOL said:
Why don’t you tell me what you are getting at?
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How about they are free to spend their taxes on socialist programs because we provide a great deal of their defense. Or perhaps you've forgotten that Greece went broke handing out free stuff, and it seems like Spain was close on their heels. Or how about the Marshall Plan after WW2; it basically rebuilt a few countries with modern manufacturing plants that we now compete against. Or how about the technology they don't mind selling to terrorist nations. Or how about the deals our drug companies cut, so that our higher prices subsidize their drug costs. It would really be interesting to see if the Europeans would revolt over sticker shock if the really had to pay the full cost of their socialism. I think we could find a few more if you need them.

Or most of all if the sticker shock drove Europeans away from socialism, we wouldn't have to listen to libs rave about the joys of false socialism. If you took a look at Cuba and a few other places around the world, you'd see the face of the real socialism.
 
#374
#374
AM64 said:
How about they are free to spend their taxes on socialist programs because we provide a great deal of their defense. Or perhaps you've forgotten that Greece went broke handing out free stuff, and it seems like Spain was close on their heels. Or how about the Marshall Plan after WW2; it basically rebuilt a few countries with modern manufacturing plants that we now compete against. Or how about the technology they don't mind selling to terrorist nations. Or how about the deals our drug companies cut, so that our higher prices subsidize their drug costs. It would really be interesting to see if the Europeans would revolt over sticker shock if the really had to pay the full cost of their socialism. I think we could find a few more if you need them.

Or most of all if the sticker shock drove Europeans away from socialism, we wouldn't have to listen to libs rave about the joys of false socialism. If you took a look at Cuba and a few other places around the world, you'd see the face of the real socialism.
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It’ll work because our debt will always just be a number. -lib
 
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#375
#375
PointGuard said:
Ple

Please explain how the military is “an inclusive self sustaining organization”
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Simply put, they are the only government organization that could autonomously overthrow that which supposedly runs it, and they could by themselves take over control, and do so nation wide void of the government's wishes or ability to try and stop them.

No order or piece of paper from any politician or even the POTUS could stop it if the military brass decided it needed to be done and soldiers stayed soldiers taking their orders down the line. If/when successful, they would continue on as the government as they saw fit.

It's unlike any other government entity. No pencil pushing SS or Medicaid office, let alone the entirety of any department nationwide, could do anything close to what the military can do. The military could by it's own leadership and structure do as it wishes if it wanted to, and there is really nothing to stop it.
 
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