Socialism Fails Everytime ...

#551
#551
WoodsmanVol said:
I'm a FEDEX man myself, but I still see what you're saying here. Now, about the USA owning all that western land, I beg to differ. Capitalism was set to practically eliminate the Great Smokey Mountains, via lumber harvesting and coal mining. That's just an example. We who enjoy our National and State Forests and Parks, have both Roosevelt Presidents to thank. Both socialism and capitalism have their positives along with their negatives. I insist the real issue with both systems is elitists, who are allowed to abuse the system. In a sense, a pure socialist system CAN'T exist because the greed and other shortcomings of humans guarantees it will be detoured into capitalism. And that's the real reason socialism systems collapse on themselves
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Did you not know the area of the Great Smokies plus all but about 320 acres of Appalachia were clear-cut from the 1890s to 1930s? I have been told the largest sawmill in the world was in Tellico Plains circa 1910.

The only stand of virgin timber i know of left in the Appalachians is in Joyce Kilmer Memorial Forest.

Surprisingly, the Great Smokies have survived. I don't know if you had many conversations with old timers around places like Tellico Plains, but there was a deep distrust of the Federal government over the forced confiscation of the land.
 
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#552
#552
GroverCleveland said:
Did you not know the area of the Great Smokies plus all but about 320 acres of Appalachia were clear-cut from the 1890s to 1930s? I have been told the largest sawmill in the world was in Tellico Plains circa 1910.
The only stand of virgin timber i know of left in the Appalachians is in Joyce Kilmer Memorial Forest.
Surprisingly, the Great Smokies have survived. I don't know if you had many conversations with old timers around places like Tellico Plains, but there was a deep distrust of the Federal government over the forced confiscation of the land.
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Yeah, Native Americans say the damage was so bad, they couldn't recognize some places they have lived and hunted in for generations. That doesn't change the fact that the Roosevelts are responsible for the existence of parks and forests we are privileged to enjoy now. Had they not stepped in, capitalism would have utterly destroyed them. Your reply itself proves it. It isn't just the Smokies, without, yeah, socialist intervention, the great western forests would have been clear-cut, and some were, as well. Even now, the fight continues as big business seeks greater access to cut those same lands up, drown beautiful vistas under business and housing developments. Places where water always was a hard to get and now harder. Waterways poisoned by careless and illegal dumping. I have even witnessed tank container trucks with hoses, dumping green, and white, and purple liquids into places covered by manhole covers. Only to find out the county didn't even know those things existed. AND, the chemicals dumped went through a buried pipe into the water, or in some places, out onto the ground. Which of course, seeped into the groundwater. But at least the Roosevelts helped to delay the abuse and destruction.
 
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#553
#553
WoodsmanVol said:
I'm a FEDEX man myself, but I still see what you're saying here. Now, about the USA owning all that western land, I beg to differ. Capitalism was set to practically eliminate the Great Smokey Mountains, via lumber harvesting and coal mining. That's just an example. We who enjoy our National and State Forests and Parks, have both Roosevelt Presidents to thank. Both socialism and capitalism have their positives along with their negatives. I insist the real issue with both systems is elitists, who are allowed to abuse the system. In a sense, a pure socialist system CAN'T exist because the greed and other shortcomings of humans guarantees it will be detoured into capitalism. And that's the real reason socialism systems collapse on themselves
Click to expand...

If your problem is with the elites you first have to accept that socialism improves the power of the elites.

FDR was the worst president of all time and a big reason for the majority of socialist policies you previously mentioned. For example we have food stamps not because food was too expensive and people couldn’t afford it, but rather because he thought it was too cheap. So he paid farmers to burn crops and then was faced with public outrage of rising prices and created our food stamp system.

It’s just another example of how planned economies fail.

As far as the smokies, trees grow back. The US government owns far too much land and should auction it off
 
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#554
#554
GroverCleveland said:
Did you not know the area of the Great Smokies plus all but about 320 acres of Appalachia were clear-cut from the 1890s to 1930s? I have been told the largest sawmill in the world was in Tellico Plains circa 1910.

The only stand of virgin timber i know of left in the Appalachians is in Joyce Kilmer Memorial Forest.

Surprisingly, the Great Smokies have survived. I don't know if you had many conversations with old timers around places like Tellico Plains, but there was a deep distrust of the Federal government over the forced confiscation of the land.
Click to expand...

My family were among those forced out of Cade’s Cove.
 
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#555
#555
Vol8188 said:
I’ve been on record opposing public parks/land for a long time now. It’s absolutely insane that the federal government owns the majority of the western states

Given UPS (capitalism) provides a much better service anyway, we should eliminate the USPS
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USPS provides last mile service for many carriers like FedEx and UPS. The infrastructure they have built makes it cheaper to contract out. Remove the ridiculous pension requirements and the USPS is fine
 
#556
#556
Vol8188 said:
If your problem is with the elites you first have to accept that socialism improves the power of the elites.
FDR was the worst president of all time and a big reason for the majority of socialist policies you previously mentioned. For example we have food stamps not because food was too expensive and people couldn’t afford it, but rather because he thought it was too cheap. So he paid farmers to burn crops and then was faced with public outrage of rising prices and created our food stamp system.
It’s just another example of how planned economies fail.
As far as the smokies, trees grow back. The US government owns far too much land and should auction it off
Click to expand...

People who don't want to know anything other than alternate facts, won't know anything else. But they'll find or create excuses to continue the status quo, and ignore the realities of doing so. One current proof Keystone Pipeline and its damages. Profit is more valued than common sense and that will never change until the Big Man stops it all. Your Bible says so. :)
 
#557
#557
WoodsmanVol said:
People who don't want to know anything other than alternate facts, won't know anything else. But they'll find or create excuses to continue the status quo, and ignore the realities of doing so. One current proof Keystone Pipeline and its damages. Profit is more valued than common sense and that will never change until the Big Man stops it all. Your Bible says so. :)
Click to expand...

Which fact did I provide that was an "alternate fact"? I'll gladly back it up
 
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#558
#558
utvolpj said:
USPS provides last mile service for many carriers like FedEx and UPS. The infrastructure they have built makes it cheaper to contract out. Remove the ridiculous pension requirements and the USPS is fine
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I don't see government pensions going away. It's like saying you want capitalism without greed.
 
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#561
#561
luthervol said:
Capitalism is rooted in greed. Our country has tried to bastardize the term into something good.
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Yes to the first part. And yes, it is a good thing. It's the reason we have everything we do. Greed drives and motivates.

Do you think your car, food, shelter, clothes, etc come from the benevolence or greed of others?
 
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#563
#563
Vol8188 said:
Yes to the first part. And yes, it is a good thing. It's the reason we have everything we do. Greed drives and motivates.

Do you think your car, food, shelter, clothes, etc come from the benevolence or greed of others?
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Greed is not a good thing, That is where our paths diverge.
 
#565
#565
Vol8188 said:
Which fact did I provide that was an "alternate fact"? I'll gladly back it up
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Played this game with you and yours often before. I know what you're really doing. It's called a:
51LWWxpZfnL._SX522_.jpg
 
#567
#567
WoodsmanVol said:
Played this game with you and yours often before. I know what you're really doing. It's called a:
51LWWxpZfnL._SX522_.jpg
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Lol you randomly brought up alternative facts, the bible, and the Keystone pipeline. Then you accuse me of a "detour" for asking what I stated that was an "alternative fact"?

Did you not believe my FDR story?
 
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#570
#570
utvolpj said:
Which has byproducts of innovation and technological advancement. We don't get to our current point by removing incentive
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Not being at our current point may not be a bad thing.
Are there positive byproducts of greed - certainly.
But nowhere near all innovation and technological advancement was motivated by greed.
 
#572
#572
luthervol said:
Nope. You may wish to brush up on your definition.
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That's laughable. So in your mind it's greed if a CEO does something for his own profit, but if he does the exact same thing for his kids/wife, it's now magically something different and no longer evil in your mind?

The truth is both are greed and greed is not a bad thing.
 
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#574
#574
luthervol said:
Greed is not a good thing, That is where our paths diverge.
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Yes. Greed is good.

You like to brag about your children’s accomplishments (rightfully so, I might add), but why did they accomplish things that made them financially successful? It is in no small measure because of instinctual greed. And greedy successful people accumulate resources that are used in many ways to assist and benefit those who are not as greedy and successful as they are.

Socialists are just as greedy. They simply chose a path to use the overwhelming power of the state against the individual to accumulate their power and wealth under the guise of helping others.
 
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#575
#575
Vol8188 said:
That's laughable. So in your mind it's greed if a CEO does something for his own profit, but if he does the exact same thing for his kids/wife, it's now magically something different and no longer evil in your mind?

The truth is both are greed and greed is not a bad thing.
Click to expand...
You're clueless. A CEO is supposed to work for a reasonable profit. It becomes greed when the desire for increased profit causes him to make decisions detrimental (harmful) to society, customers, employees.
 
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