Socialism Fails Everytime ...

[luthervol]

So you are ok with them running a national health care system the same way they have run any of those programs ? If you keep answering I’m going to box you in eventually . You’ll either have to stop answering or tell the truth .

Sure. It would be a vast improvement.

 

[Mick]

lol.....You could list hundreds of stories of doctors referring patients for unneeded tests and receiving a kickback from the clinic. Or doctors prescribing unnecessary medications for a kickback from the pharmaceutical company.

Hog gets caught up in the rebel rousing and usually ends up with egg on his face.

 

[AshG]

There's an easy way to kill socialism and the desire for socialism without being an ass:

Make the choice to take care of the less fortunate. Extend your hand to bring them to your level. Pray for those who see no responsibility outside of their immediate wants. Those who do not work because they don't want to, let them be hungry.

 

[0nelilreb]

Sure. It would be a vast improvement.

So you are saying that even though you know the government CANT run programs efficiently and will just keep throwing money at a bad program ( tax money ) you believe they can vastly improve that program ?

 

[AM64]

Interstate and highway system.
Space program.
Military.
Education.

The interstates are old, often poorly maintained, and have not been upgraded to keep up with population.

NASA is a shell of what it was.

Our military is off fighting elsewhere so all your socialized countries have the freedom to waste their money on issues like socialized medicine. Our military is what protected all those socialized countries in Europe during the cold war, so that they could be socialized without being bankrupt.

Our education. You're kidding, right???? There's a lot of it. It's expensive. And it's piss poor in what it actually delivers as compared to fifty years ago. Simply a teach to the middle, all inclusive, bungle. Exceptionalism and great leaps don't begin with mediocrity ... particularly mediocrity in education.

 

[AshG]

Someone mentioned education earlier, laughing at the idea we may be the best system in the world. I have two comments:

1) We won't know if we truly are because we refuse to test the way other countries do. We put all of our students against their best and brightest. Our technical students are measured against their future scholars, and it is not fair to either group.
2) We don't have the desire to implement the systems in other countries that are more successful because it's not a profitable endeavor at the front end and it requires us to teach our children to respect the education process and hold the educational opportunities in esteem.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

There's an easy way to kill socialism and the desire for socialism without being an ass:

Make the choice to take care of the less fortunate. Extend your hand to bring them to your level. Pray for those who see no responsibility outside of their immediate wants. Those who do not work because they don't want to, let them be hungry.

Ummmm help me out here. That is pretty much what the 'right' would want to do. Rather than have the .gov steal and then redistribute monies, they would give to charities and let them do it. Much more efficient. The leftists would cry and scream at the sky with the first picture of starving unaborted children wallowing in filth and poverty, because you cant save everybody and the soundbite is far more powerful than reality.

 

[hog88]

There's an easy way to kill socialism and the desire for socialism without being an ass:

Make the choice to take care of the less fortunate. Extend your hand to bring them to your level. Pray for those who see no responsibility outside of their immediate wants. Those who do not work because they don't want to, let them be hungry.

That's pretty much the way things should be. There is a difference between can't work and won't work. Can't afford a basic HC plan and would rather buy booze, smokes and a cell phone.

 

[AshG]

Ummmm help me out here. That is pretty much what the 'right' would want to do. Rather than have the .gov steal and then redistribute monies, they would give to charities and let them do it. Much more efficient. The leftists would cry and scream at the sky with the first picture of starving unaborted children wallowing in filth and poverty, because you cant save everybody and the soundbite is far more powerful than reality.

Where our ability to intercede as individuals is where limited safety net programs should begin.

Our problem right now is the people are waiting to help until after the government cuts the programs. I feel it would be better to go ahead and give so that there's no need to continue the programs instead.

 

[AM64]

Not enough. It's easier to just raise premiums and pass on the costs. We pay more for less and have far to many people who are getting wealthy while adding absolutely nothing of value to the product. They have just found a legal way to play the system and skim billions. The world's largest pyramid scheme. Insurance salesmen and pharma reps chouldn't be making 20 times more money than nurses.

Now that we can agree on. Of course, you neglect to mention that while insurors were negotiating drug prices, Medicare wasn't. How exactly does that fit in your cost containment pocket? Since you and your cronies on here think government can control costs, then with the anti-monopolistic powers they have, why have they not jumped all over a bunch of unwarranted medicine price hikes? Why have they not jumped all over higher medicine costs in the US vs the lower prices of the same drugs sold by the same companies in other countries? You do realize one of the things that drove the anti trust laws had to do with companies selling for less in one region and subsidizing losses by higher prices in regions where they had a stranglehold on the market. Who provides the stranglehold in drugs? The US government with patent rules (granted likely necessary with some limitations).

 

[AshG]

….and that condescending attitude from your side will help motivate us deplorables to come out in record numbers once more. Thanks.

How do you educate those who don't want to be educated, though? The growing rift between Fact Conservatives and Anti-Fact Conservatives is painful to watch and experience.

 

[DC_Vol]

Not 'deplorable'.... just ignorant.

What kills me about these people who 'boo' the word "socialism" at Trump rallies, is that many of the older members of the crowd (especially in our poorest states such as West Virginia and Mississippi) could not survive without Social Security benefits. They simply don't understand what it is they are booing.

Trump benefits from an ignorant base. The worst features of capitalism (without controls) are much more likely to destroy the middle class, than the worst features of socialism.

Hell, I’ve seen Democrats boo capitalism while taking video with their iPhones.

And look at some of the things Luth posts.

You just have to accept there is a certain subset of people who aren’t that bright. Why focus your energy on people who are likely incapable of learning?

 

[hog88]

How do you educate those who don't want to be educated, though? The growing rift between Fact Conservatives and Anti-Fact Conservatives is painful to watch and experience.

You can't.

 

[AM64]

How do you educate those who don't want to be educated, though? The growing rift between Fact Conservatives and Anti-Fact Conservatives is painful to watch and experience.

You can't. What you can do is take them out of the classroom so that those who can learn and will learn have the opportunity to learn ... that's capitalism. Inclusivism is socialism ... the same crap that has failed time and again all over the world. Too many of our problems start with lack of education - primarily with those people who decided very early on they didn't wish to participate, but we make it easy for them later on with multiple types of welfare to compensate for their poor judgment.

Simply put: illiterate dregs of society are a drag on society, and our government support programs do nothing more than perpetuate the problem. Our nonsensical social engineering programs do not alleviate the cycle of poverty and illiteracy; they just make it more palatable so both can continue.

 

[AshG]

You can't. What you can do is take them out of the classroom so that those who can learn and will learn have the opportunity to learn ... that's capitalism. Inclusivism is socialism ... the same crap that has failed time and again all over the world. Too many of our problems start with lack of education - primarily with those people who decided very early on they didn't wish to participate, but we make it easy for them later on with multiple types of welfare to compensate for their poor judgment.

Simply put: illiterate dregs of society are a drag on society, and our government support programs do nothing more than perpetuate the problem. Our nonsensical social engineering programs do not alleviate the cycle of poverty and illiteracy; they just make it more palatable so both can continue.

Great answer, but wrong question. Let me try again:

How does the quiet portion of the conservative movement that is engaged through establishment of fact and gathering of evidence keep the runaway emotion-based pep rally moved conservatives from ramming the right straight into the side of a cliff?

 

[luthervol]

So you are saying that even though you know the government CANT run programs efficiently and will just keep throwing money at a bad program ( tax money ) you believe they can vastly improve that program ?

I am saying that had the government not lead the space program, the interstate and highway system, education, the military.......they would all be in far worse condition today.

 

[hog88]

Great answer, but wrong question. Let me try again:

How does the quiet portion of the conservative movement that is engaged through establishment of fact and gathering of evidence keep the runaway emotion-based pep rally moved conservatives from ramming the right straight into the side of a cliff?

I don't think you can, we see this exact scenario playing out on the left and they are stepping on the accelerator.

 

[tumscalcium]

There's an easy way to kill socialism and the desire for socialism without being an ass:

Make the choice to take care of the less fortunate. Extend your hand to bring them to your level. Pray for those who see no responsibility outside of their immediate wants. Those who do not work because they don't want to, let them be hungry.

That’s the problem. People get pulled down.

 

[Orange_Crush]

What kills me about these people who 'boo' the word "socialism" at Trump rallies, is that many of the older members of the crowd (especially in our poorest states such as West Virginia and Mississippi) could not survive without Social Security benefits. They simply don't understand what it is they are booing.

Trump benefits from an ignorant base. The worst features of capitalism (without controls) are much more likely to destroy the middle class, than the worst features of socialism.

Social Security is an enforced ponzi scheme that is bankrupting our economy. I'm not sure you want to use it as the bastion protection for the honor of socialism.

 

[hog88]

I am saying that had the government not lead the space program, the interstate and highway system, education, the military.......they would all be in far worse condition today.

You might have a point with the military but not so sure about the rest, like all government programs they get started then people figure out how to abuse them or they get bloated with bureaucracy and become ineffective. We'd be on Mars now if the .gov would have simply put the job up for bid.

 

[luthervol]

Ummmm help me out here. That is pretty much what the 'right' would want to do. Rather than have the .gov steal and then redistribute monies, they would give to charities and let them do it. Much more efficient. The leftists would cry and scream at the sky with the first picture of starving unaborted children wallowing in filth and poverty, because you cant save everybody and the soundbite is far more powerful than reality.

lol......It wasn't done......thus the governmental involvement.

 

[AshG]

That’s the problem. People get pulled down.

How, though? If they are responsible in their giving and put effort into policies and practices instead of just writing a check, how do those who give end up pulled down?

 

[BeecherVol]

Social Security is an enforced ponzi scheme that is bankrupting our economy. I'm not sure you want to use it as the bastion protection for the honor of socialism.

The basic premise behind the idea was your stupid let me have some of your money.

And then we re b!tching about lack of education.

 

[luthervol]

Now that we can agree on. Of course, you neglect to mention that while insurors were negotiating drug prices, Medicare wasn't. How exactly does that fit in your cost containment pocket? Since you and your cronies on here think government can control costs, then with the anti-monopolistic powers they have, why have they not jumped all over a bunch of unwarranted medicine price hikes? Why have they not jumped all over higher medicine costs in the US vs the lower prices of the same drugs sold by the same companies in other countries? You do realize one of the things that drove the anti trust laws had to do with companies selling for less in one region and subsidizing losses by higher prices in regions where they had a stranglehold on the market. Who provides the stranglehold in drugs? The US government with patent rules (granted likely necessary with some limitations).

Asleep at the wheel. To many of our politicians are in the pocket of big pharma, insurance, and other tangents of the health care industry.

 

[0nelilreb]

I am saying that had the government not lead the space program, the interstate and highway system, education, the military.......they would all be in far worse condition today.

Not one of them is ran effiently with cost measures figured in to make them be the best programs they can be . They rely on mountains of cash to survive . They all have huge cost overruns and if they operated like any private business model they would be bankrupt from the way they are ran . Once again .. have you ever seen , heard of or read about any program that OUR government runs or has ran that is EFFIECENT ? I’ve almost got the whole floor painted , the only spot left is that corner you are standing in .