Socialism Fails Everytime ...

LOL

Then please explain why few if any major medical breakthroughs come from countries with socialized healthcare?

Health Care Special Issue: Creative Destruction

"The single biggest source of medical research funding, not just in the United States but in the entire world, is the National Institutes of Health (NIH): Last year, it spent more than $28 billion on research, accounting for about one-third of the total dollars spent on medical research and development in this country (and half the money spent at universities). The majority of that money pays for the kind of basic research that might someday unlock cures for killer diseases like Alzheimer’s, aids, and cancer. No other country has an institution that matches the NIH in scale. And that is probably the primary explanation for why so many of the intellectual breakthroughs in medical science happen here."

Also, check out Rand Paul to Canada for hernia surgery, world's best cardiac surgery in Cuba, etc.
 
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That has a warm and happy feel to it until you try and get everyone to agree on the definition of "less fortunate" and or why that is the case.

All the government is 1 to over do it.
His way to "kill socialism" was to voluntarily redistribute wealth (i.e "to the same level as you")--i.e killng socialism is to willingly implement socialism. That's a ridiculous argument. "If you'd just willingly agree to be no better off than anyone else, we wouldn't have to forcibly take your stuff to make you no better off than anyone else. "

That's brilliant right there. Let's end rape as well.
 
His way to "kill socialism" was to voluntarily redistribute wealth (i.e "to the same level as you")--i.e killng socialism is to willingly implement socialism. That's a ridiculous argument. "If you'd just willingly agree to be no better off than anyone else, we wouldn't have to forcibly take your stuff to make you no better off than anyone else. "

That's brilliant right there. Let's end rape as well.

Just promoting a Christ-inspired life. Straight from the scriptures.

There are ways to raise others to your level without giving them everything you have. Loving your neighbor and living in communion doesn't eliminate poverty, but it lessens the burden on us all and it makes the lives of the poor and destitute a little bit easier.
 
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Health Care Special Issue: Creative Destruction

"The single biggest source of medical research funding, not just in the United States but in the entire world, is the National Institutes of Health (NIH): Last year, it spent more than $28 billion on research, accounting for about one-third of the total dollars spent on medical research and development in this country (and half the money spent at universities). The majority of that money pays for the kind of basic research that might someday unlock cures for killer diseases like Alzheimer’s, aids, and cancer. No other country has an institution that matches the NIH in scale. And that is probably the primary explanation for why so many of the intellectual breakthroughs in medical science happen here."

Also, check out Rand Paul to Canada for hernia surgery, world's best cardiac surgery in Cuba, etc.

So a couple things:

1. Basic research funding is miles away from ideas in practice. It is the private sector that translates NIH research into treatments, techniques and devices. I've been in this field for over 25 years and while funding for basic research provides the important seeds of innovation the private sector is absolutely critical in moving it from university research labs to actual practice. The profit motive is essential to bring the risk capital needed.

Often companies from other countries (eg. Switzerland) license the basic research findings for development into treatments/devices. Our tax dollars do fund the biggest chunk of basic research. However, none of that basic research makes it to practice without the private sector (well, almost none).

2. I do a case study on the hernia clinic Rand Paul went to. It is generally recognized as the best in the world because that's all they do and it is a private hospital.
 
I am saying that had the government not lead the space program, the interstate and highway system, education, the military.......they would all be in far worse condition today.

I pretty much agree with you . The scope of some things is beyond the private sector; Blackwater is a prime example of the fallacy of private armies. There are a couple of companies making NASA look overly complex and expensive; of course, a lot of their way was paved by NASA; we'll have to wait a while to know about the safety implications. Education should be left to state and localities, period. Highways can be multi tiered (as they are now), but interstate commerce and safety require standards and regulation. I know I certainly wouldn't prefer to drive across country on a patchwork of privately owned toll roads.

However, that those things are government controlled doesn't imply good socialism at work, and that's where you (I believe) and a couple of others started. The best equivalent I can offer was something from a book on our war in Viet Nam. The author's point was it wasn't a "guerrilla war"; it was a revolutionary war fought largely with one side using guerrilla tactics. In a way a lot like how we fought a Revolutionary War. Our government may do some things similar to what almost all other governments (including socialist types) do, but it in no way means are we socialist.
 
Just promoting a Christ-inspired life. Straight from the scriptures.
Show me where it says to redistribute wealth to common station. You had me at helping the needy and the ones who refuse to work not being helped, but you added a bit more than that and you know it. What you did was the equivalent saying "just the tip".

I will wait for your scriptural support.
 
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Just promoting a Christ-inspired life. Straight from the scriptures.

There are ways to raise others to your level without giving them everything you have. Loving your neighbor and living in communion doesn't eliminate poverty, but it lessens the burden on us all and it makes the lives of the poor and destitute a little bit easier.

I see your edit and will just say, I'm still waiting. I'll hold you responsible to putting words in Jesus' mouth. Give me the detailed breakdown of Biblical economics and Christian charity.

And don't get faint of heart now. You said that we should help others to our station. That's saying that "Christ-likedness" is everyone being at the same level. No skirting it, Ash. It's what you said, and I say you're abusing Biblical Christianity by saying that's what Jesus taught. You'll need to support the association.

PS: Your mish-mash response doesn't make your response any less laughable. If you'd wanted to claim that Jesus was a socialist, you should have just said that. I would have taken you to task, but it would have been a much different comment than "If you want to end socialism, just stop resisting and we wouldn't have to forcibly take it from you."

That's a patently stupid answer, akin to "Officer, it wouldn't have been rape if she'd just not resisted."
 
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Show me where it says to redistribute wealth to common station. You had me at helping the needy and the ones who refuse to work not being helped, but you added a bit more than that and you know it. What you did was the equivalent saying "just the tip".

I will wait for your scriptural support.

There's no direct scripture, but there is indirect.

If you look at the story of the widow and the mite, you find that Christ admonishes those who give the widows and orphans just enough so they can give back to the temple. In doing so, they keep them reliant and destitute while making themselves feel like they've fulfilled their Talmudic obligation.

And when Christ says to the rich man "Sell all you have and give it to the poor; then you shall enter the kingdom of heaven." It was not a commandment to all of us to take a vow of poverty, but a direct addressing of the sin of attachment. And the rich man and the beggar; even in death, the rich man demanded the beggar to come and cool his tongue.

Also the good Samaritan.

Nowhere does it say we cannot live lives of comfort, but we must do so with the less fortunate in mind.
 
Just promoting a Christ-inspired life. Straight from the scriptures.

There are ways to raise others to your level without giving them everything you have. Loving your neighbor and living in communion doesn't eliminate poverty, but it lessens the burden on us all and it makes the lives of the poor and destitute a little bit easier.
On the one hand you speak of "level" (which I could deduct as equal), then also later speak of the poor and destitute but follow it with "a little bit easier".

One doesnt sound like the other to me.

I agree that you can make an impact on your "neighbor" with help, even outside money and things (so to speak).
I dont agree that the objective should be level or equal however.
 
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Asleep at the wheel. To many of our politicians are in the pocket of big pharma, insurance, and other tangents of the health care industry.

Don't you think that has a lot to do with federalism ... the growth of big government? The power corrupts thing? We started out with a cooperative arrangement ... a US government with a limited scope, and strong state governments. We now have a strong central government with virtually no oversight. How can you cure corruption in politics if the politicians are at the top of the heap and above it all? For starters how can you not view campaign contributions and lobbying as bribes and legislation and favorable regulation as payback. But like the old saying "who polices the police?" Congress basically makes it's own rules and has no oversight. I don't think our politicians are asleep at the wheel; I think they are highly opportunistic, greedy, and prone to accepting graft ... none of which makes them competent in the least as leaders and representatives.

How could those people improve a federal health program? It's simply opportunity for them, and nothing good for us. The first thing you have to cure is the government itself before even considering expansion of anything it touches. If you don't see government as the problem rather than the solution by now, I doubt that any of us here can help you.
 
Medicare fraud is something that happens when Doctors, Nurses, Hospitals, or anyone in the healthcare industry tries to rip off the government and the taxpayers. That is your industry little girl wrought with corruption, Fraud, mismanagement, and skyrocketing healthcare cost.
You are totally right, it is my profession. I cut costs by getting unnecessary tests cancelled everyday at work. Doctors are so afraid of getting sued that they want to run everything, ignoring the differential diagnosis tree. I suppose your accusatory tone would apply if this little girl hadn't got blackballed in my area for participating in getting a doctor dismissed for fraud. I'm doing my part.

The bigger picture is healthcare In the hands of the government is very poorly managed, i gave as an example the VA and Medicare. They don't deal with problems until they are aggregious, that is mismanagement by our government. Government isn't designed to manage the industry. Nor will it do any better at managing a bigger plan like socializing healthcare for all.
 
There's no direct scripture, but there is indirect.

If you look at the story of the widow and the mite, you find that Christ admonishes those who give the widows and orphans just enough so they can give back to the temple. In doing so, they keep them reliant and destitute while making themselves feel like they've fulfilled their Talmudic obligation.

And when Christ says to the rich man "Sell all you have and give it to the poor; then you shall enter the kingdom of heaven." It was not a commandment to all of us to take a vow of poverty, but a direct addressing of the sin of attachment. And the rich man and the beggar; even in death, the rich man demanded the beggar to come and cool his tongue.

Also the good Samaritan.

Nowhere does it say we cannot live lives of comfort, but we must do so with the less fortunate in mind.
What in the hell are you talking about? (I chose that verbiage on purpose.)

The parable of the widow's mite was teaching that her offering was more valuable to God because of her heart condition than money. Show me where Jesus said ANYTHING about what anyone should have given to her.

41 Jesus sat down opposite the place where the offerings were put and watched the crowd putting their money into the temple treasury. Many rich people threw in large amounts.

42 But a poor widow came and put in two very small copper coins, worth only a few cents.

43 Calling his disciples to him, Jesus said, “Truly I tell you, this poor widow has put more into the treasury than all the others.

44They all gave out of their wealth; but she, out of her poverty, put in everything—all she had to live on.”

The rich young ruler asked what he should do to receive eternal life. Jesus told him to obey all the law, to which the ruler responded that he had. Knowing that he hadn't and he was full of it, Jesus showed him where his idol was by confronting him with the fact that he couldn't part with his fortune.

The rich man and LAZARUS was a parable teaching about evangelism and the fact that we have only this life to accept the gospel. (Primarily it was an indictment of the Pharisees for not believing in Him.)

The good Samaritan was very generous and loving. He left just enough to get the man healthy. He didn't sign his life savings over. It wasn't a parable about social policies. It was answering the question "who is my neighbor?" It's the one that you don't expect to be.

What did you do? Pick the four or five parables you could remember and randomly list them?

Jesus didn't deal with alms or social programs in any of your examples.

And there is specific teachings. You're wrong about that.

When asked about whether a woman should have given her treasure to the poor, Jesus said, "You'll always have the poor among you" as opposed to "You guys should all redistribute wealth so that no one is any richer or poorer than anyone else."

In His parable of the talents, each servant got a different amount.

He taught the principle that you are to receive only what you have shown yourself faithful/responsible/profitable with.

Jesus was the God of the Old Testament who set up a welfare system in Israel which consisted of the rich agrarian field owners only going over a field once, and not in the corners, so that the poor of Israel could walk behind the harvesters and pick up enough for themselves. He didn't set up a socialist system where everyone got the exact same amount of fields, and the produce was then redistraibuted because some farmers were better farmers than others.

As I knew you were, you were full of hot air as to what Jesus was all about. I'd say the beginning of the Christ-like life is to find out who and what He actually was and then go from there. I'm not sure you can turn Him into something He's not and then claim to be like Him.
 
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My wife has a quadripelegic first cousin. TSA has threatened to arrest him in the past for refusing to get out of his chair so they can test it for bomb materials.

I keep forgetting to get a letter of medical necessity when it's time to renew my handicap placard. Also, the renewal office doesn't like it when you take your prosthetic off and set it gently on their desks.

It's sad how easily those who don't need assistance are able to get it, and those who do - like your father - have to get legal counsel involved to make any headway.

Yes, but government bureaucracies are a lot like BJ's brick by brick model. Talking to a bureaucrat is pretty much the same as talking to a brick wall ... except often the wall seems more intelligent.
 
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Don't you think that has a lot to do with federalism ... the growth of big government? The power corrupts thing? We started out with a cooperative arrangement ... a US government with a limited scope, and strong state governments. We now have a strong central government with virtually no oversight. How can you cure corruption in politics if the politicians are at the top of the heap and above it all? For starters how can you not view campaign contributions and lobbying as bribes and legislation and favorable regulation as payback. But like the old saying "who polices the police?" Congress basically makes it's own rules and has no oversight. I don't think our politicians are asleep at the wheel; I think they are highly opportunistic, greedy, and prone to accepting graft ... none of which makes them competent in the least as leaders and representatives.

How could those people improve a federal health program? It's simply opportunity for them, and nothing good for us. The first thing you have to cure is the government itself before even considering expansion of anything it touches. If you don't see government as the problem rather than the solution by now, I doubt that any of us here can help you.
It's funny how some screech at one version of theft but go mute about others.
 
If you don't see government as the problem rather than the solution by now, I doubt that any of us here can help you.

Bingo....I don't and you can't.

I see greed as the problem and politicians have no stranglehold on greed. I actually think greed is a little less in play in the public sector than in the private.
 
Bingo....I don't and you can't.

I see greed as the problem and politicians have no stranglehold on greed. I actually think greed is a little less in play in the public sector than in the private.


It’s not your job or the government’s job to police greed. If people want to work hard to obtain something who are you to tell them what to do with it?
 
If you had any friends who are currently physicians, your views would be vastly different.
lol.......My brother is the CFO for a hospital group and I have several friends and relatives that are doctors, nurses, and an anesthesiologist. Also have a friend that is a pharmaceutical rep.
 
It’s not your job or the government’s job to police greed. If people want to work hard to obtain something who are you to tell them what to do with it?
A member of the society from which they are profiting.
 
lol.......My brother is the CFO for a hospital group and I have several friends and relatives that are doctors, nurses, and an anesthesiologist. Also have a friend that is a pharmaceutical rep.

I’m very curious .. does your brother share the same views as you do ? My brother and I are complete opposites on ours
 
I’m very curious .. does your brother share the same views as you do ? My brother and I are complete opposites on ours
We agree on a few things and disagree on others. My older brother is the most conservative (MBA, doctorate, taught at university level, retired, now doing consulting work) We are on opposite ends of the spectrum on most things.
My younger brother, the CFO, peaked in his conservatism several years ago and has been moving back left sense. (both despise Trump)
My younger brother sees huge issues in health care and fully realizes that his company profits from a number of things that are not as they should be.
 
lol.......My brother is the CFO for a hospital group and I have several friends and relatives that are doctors, nurses, and an anesthesiologist. Also have a friend that is a pharmaceutical rep.

Sure you do. If any of that is true and they share your views about government run healthcare then they are obviously being paid under the table to think that way. Regardless of what you think, government run healthcare is an abject failure across the board. The VA and medicare are absolute frauds. You dont even get to hear about the true horrors of what happens when the government has control of a healthcare system. But you are going to believe whatever you want.

It still is hard to believe that in this day and age, someone would actually support any form of Socialism. Even with all the historical data that says its an utter failure, you still believe that a Socialistic system would be successful in the US. You really need to reprioritize your views luther.
 
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