Socialism Fails Everytime ...

[AshG]

Not one of them is ran effiently with cost measures figured in to make them be the best programs they can be . They rely on mountains of cash to survive . They all have huge cost overruns and if they operated like any private business model they would be bankrupt from the way they are ran . Once again .. how you ever seen , heard of or read about any program that OUR government runs or has ran that is EFFIECENT ? I’ve almost got the whole floor painted , the only spot left is that corner you are standing in .

Frequently Asked Questions About Medicaid

Over the past 30 years, Medicaid costs per beneficiary have essentially tracked costs in the health care system as a whole, public and private. In fact, costs per beneficiary grew much more slowly for Medicaid than for private insurance between 1987 and 2014 (see Figure 1), and are expected to continue growing more slowly than for private insurance in coming years, according to the Medicaid and CHIP Payment and Access Commission

 

[hog88]

Frequently Asked Questions About Medicaid

Over the past 30 years, Medicaid costs per beneficiary have essentially tracked costs in the health care system as a whole, public and private. In fact, costs per beneficiary grew much more slowly for Medicaid than for private insurance between 1987 and 2014 (see Figure 1), and are expected to continue growing more slowly than for private insurance in coming years, according to the Medicaid and CHIP Payment and Access Commission

All fine and dandy, what happens when the majority of physicians stop accepting medicare/medicaid?

 

[BeecherVol]

There's an easy way to kill socialism and the desire for socialism without being an ass:

Make the choice to take care of the less fortunate. Extend your hand to bring them to your level. Pray for those who see no responsibility outside of their immediate wants. Those who do not work because they don't want to, let them be hungry.

That has a warm and happy feel to it until you try and get everyone to agree on the definition of "less fortunate" and or why that is the case.

All the government is 1 to over do it.

 

[AshG]

All fine and dandy, what happens when the majority of physicians stop accepting medicare/medicaid?

I would imagine it would be like what happened when large portions of my country stopped accepting BCBS's employee plan, only with more weaponry involved.

That was a fun time.
HR: Choose this plan, everyone takes it.
Summit Medical: Now that you've signed up, we don't take it anymore.
Consumer: WTF? /Bombards phone systems at doctors office, HR, and insurance company

 

[AshG]

That has a warm and happy feel to it until you try and get everyone to agree on the definition of "less fortunate" and or why that is the case.

All the government is 1 to over do it.

That's the beauty of what I said. Each individual decides to who and how much to give. It can be direct or through an organization. Then the conversation shifts to how to corporately help a much smaller group of indigents.

 

[luthervol]

Not one of them is ran effiently with cost measures figured in to make them be the best programs they can be . They rely on mountains of cash to survive . They all have huge cost overruns and if they operated like any private business model they would be bankrupt from the way they are ran . Once again .. have you ever seen , heard of or read about any program that OUR government runs or has ran that is EFFIECENT ? I’ve almost got the whole floor painted , the only spot left is that corner you are standing in .

Private business models are not appropriate for all parts of a society. Health care being a prime example. Why didn't private businesses create an interstate system, get us to the moon, take over in times of war, educate the population? The worst thing to ever happen to health care was to make it a profit center.

 

[BeecherVol]

That's the beauty of what I said. Each individual decides to who and how much to give. It can be direct or through an organization. Then the conversation shifts to how to corporately help a much smaller group of indigents.

It would be beautiful if the government recognized the gesture and reciprocated the idea back in tax cuts where you could help even more.

Back to reality....

 

[0nelilreb]

Private business models are not appropriate for all parts of a society. Health care being a prime example. Why didn't private businesses create an interstate system, get us to the moon, take over in times of war, educate the population? The worst thing to ever happen to health care was to make it a profit center.

If private business is in the business to make money ( profit ) what is the government in the business to do ? They are not set up to make make , they have NEVER ran an effienct program of any kind , so that leaves us with what options ? Take in money and spend money . Prove me wrong.. #ChangeMyMind

 

[luthervol]

If private business is in the business to make money ( profit ) what is the government in the business to do ? They are not set up to make make , they have NEVER ran an effienct program of any kind , so that leaves us with what options ? Take in money and spend money . Prove me wrong.. #ChangeMyMind

Health care does not need to be a for profit sector of the economy, no more so than the military, education, or the judicial/corrections system.

 

[hog88]

Private business models are not appropriate for all parts of a society. Health care being a prime example. Why didn't private businesses create an interstate system, get us to the moon, take over in times of war, educate the population? The worst thing to ever happen to health care was to make it a profit center.

Without our system of healthcare, healthcare around the world would be 20-30 years behind where we are today. Profit is what has lead to innovation, let that sink in.

 

[AshG]

Private business models are not appropriate for all parts of a society. Health care being a prime example. Why didn't private businesses create an interstate system, get us to the moon, take over in times of war, educate the population? The worst thing to ever happen to health care was to make it a profit center.

America is an all-or-nothing country. We can't seem to accept, as a culture, that some parts of our society should not be profit oriented.

Granted, my opinion is greatly informed by my parents' occupations (medical billing, hospital accounts receivable, medical bill collection), my mother's health (~32 arthritis related surgeries so far) and the cost the family has incurred from it, and my health history and the costs we incur from it.

I don't have a problem with my doctor earning $300K+. It's twenty or so pencil pushers above him making $1m or more selling Advil for $90 per pill while having never seen the inside of a surgical suite or worked a single ER shift.

 

[AshG]

they have NEVER ran an effienct program of any kind , #ChangeMyMind

Medicaid, see study in the link above.

 

[0nelilreb]

Medicaid, see study in the link above.

So you are saying the federal government is running Medicaid efficiently ?

 

[AshG]

So you are saying the federal government is running Medicaid efficiently ?

I'm not; the data are.

 

[0nelilreb]

Health care does not need to be a for profit sector of the economy, no more so than the military, education, or the judicial/corrections system.

So you are willing to go in the hole trillions more just to have a national health care system knowing the government can’t run
It efficiently with the hopes that it will be better even though every program they have ever ran ends up the same way ? Your Bernie Bro / AOC is really coming out in this issue .

 

[0nelilreb]

I'm not; the data are.

No it’s not , it’s talking about a slower rise in cost due to what state you live in unless I miss read it . It’s only talking about Medicaid also . Now let’s put a national healthcare system on the governments shoulders and see what happens .

 

[AshG]

No it’s not , it’s talking about a slower rise in cost due to what state you live in unless I miss read it . It’s only talking about Medicaid also . Now let’s put a national healthcare system on the governments shoulders and see what happens .

My apologies, I was limiting the scope of my answer to a single statement you made. I would consider a lower rise in costs than private insurance a win.

Do I think that can be repeated with broad coverage? Absolutely not.

 

[0nelilreb]

My apologies, I was limiting the scope of my answer to a single statement you made. I would consider a lower rise in costs than private insurance a win.

Do I think that can be repeated with broad coverage? Absolutely not.

I agree what what it said I went through a lot of it with my dad my mom has been a nurse for 40 years and had worked the last 12-15 in hospice care . The state can and does help a lot if people but there are so many hoops you have to jump through is just ridiculous . My dad had Parkinson’s and it took him 3 years and an attorney to qualify for his disability . It was a hot mess trying to deal with those people that determine eligibility .

 

[AshG]

I agree what what it said I went through a lot of it with my dad my mom has been a nurse for 40 years and had worked the last 12-15 in hospice care . The state can and does help a lot if people but there are so many hoops you have to jump through is just ridiculous . My dad had Parkinson’s and it took him 3 years and an attorney to qualify for his disability . It was a hot mess trying to deal with those people that determine eligibility .

My wife has a quadripelegic first cousin. TSA has threatened to arrest him in the past for refusing to get out of his chair so they can test it for bomb materials.

I keep forgetting to get a letter of medical necessity when it's time to renew my handicap placard. Also, the renewal office doesn't like it when you take your prosthetic off and set it gently on their desks.

It's sad how easily those who don't need assistance are able to get it, and those who do - like your father - have to get legal counsel involved to make any headway.

 

[volinbham]

Private business models are not appropriate for all parts of a society. Health care being a prime example. Why didn't private businesses create an interstate system, get us to the moon, take over in times of war, educate the population? The worst thing to ever happen to health care was to make it a profit center.

The innovation and advancements in healthcare are directly connected to the market-mechanism.

 

[luthervol]

So you are willing to go in the hole trillions more just to have a national health care system knowing the government can’t run
It efficiently with the hopes that it will be better even though every program they have ever ran ends up the same way ? Your Bernie Bro / AOC is really coming out in this issue .

I've supported universal healthcare for the past 40 years. I've always known that was the final destination but I never thought it would take this long. We should have adopted Hillary's plan in the 90's.

 

[luthervol]

The innovation and advancements in healthcare are directly connected to the market-mechanism.

Some, not most. Very few major advancements throughout human history were motivated by profit. They were done from a place of curiosity and the desire to create, explore, and maybe even benefit mankind.

 

[AM64]

Great answer, but wrong question. Let me try again:

How does the quiet portion of the conservative movement that is engaged through establishment of fact and gathering of evidence keep the runaway emotion-based pep rally moved conservatives from ramming the right straight into the side of a cliff?

Good question. How does the moderate movement in the Dem party "engaged through establishment of fact and gathering of evidence keep the runaway emotion-based" riot oriented socialists from ramming straight into the left face of a cliff? We have a real problem with emotion based everything these days - too little fact and too much infatuation, emotion, and hormone driven everything ... and frequently fueled by a opportunistic, non factual media.

In the end, though, too much of it all begins with a lack of education; and all too often, that's simply a matter of personal choice by kids who don't know what they don't know.

 

[AshG]

Good question. How does the moderate movement in the Dem party "engaged through establishment of fact and gathering of evidence keep the runaway emotion-based" riot oriented socialists from ramming straight into the left face of a cliff? We have a real problem with emotion based everything these days - too little fact and too much infatuation, emotion, and hormone driven everything ... and frequently fueled by a opportunistic, non factual media.

I tend not to run with that side, that's why I left them out. But it is a quality question.

Our elections are increasingly decided by a lunatic fringe and those to the immediate center of them. The sane center 60% stay home and we're paying for it.

 

[hog88]

Some, not most. Very few major advancements throughout human history were motivated by profit. They were done from a place of curiosity and the desire to create, explore, and maybe even benefit mankind.

LOL

Then please explain why few if any major medical breakthroughs come from countries with socialized healthcare?