Sports Illustrated Reports A Rod...

#126
#126
BigPapaVol said:
And finally, D, where Ruth suffers most.

Runs is amazing to me because bonds spent half his career on a team that didn't score.
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well, we can substitute Ruth's pitching for his D. that makes up for it and then some.
 
#127
#127
Ruth would have probably been a Hall of Famer as a pitcher if he'd never picked up a bat. I know it's obvious and boring, but I don't see any way that he's not the greatest ever -- assuming, of course, that you believe that cross-era comparisons have any real validity, which they don't.
 
#128
#128
Ruth, in my opinion, is hurt by not playing against all the best players of his time, only the best white players. His stats qualify him as best.

Hard to argue with BPV re Splinter. If you make some reasonable assumptions about the years he missed with military service the guy has well over 3000 hits, 650 homeruns, and about 2200 RBIs.
 
#129
#129
By far, no one put as much fear into other pitchers/teams than Barry Bonds. It seemed like the dude got intentionally walked twice a game.
 
#130
#130
orangetanker11 said:
By far, no one put as much fear into other pitchers/teams than Barry Bonds. It seemed like the dude got intentionally walked twice a game.
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well, being allowed to take half the plate away by wearing Robocop's arm protection and sitting on the inside made that ability a lot more feasible.
 
#131
#131
Vercingetorix said:
Ruth would have probably been a Hall of Famer as a pitcher if he'd never picked up a bat. I know it's obvious and boring, but I don't see any way that he's not the greatest ever -- assuming, of course, that you believe that cross-era comparisons have any real validity, which they don't.
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Hard to argue against Ruth because of the pitching, but his numbers got a huge boost from hitting in front of Gehrig forever.

These debates are unwinnable, but imagine TWilliams in front of Gehrig for 15 years. If he got something similar to what Ortiz had in Manny, the numbers might be full blown senseless.
 
#132
#132
If you look at the numbers, Ted Williams was the best hitter of all time. And he lost basically five years out of his career (including three right in the middle of his prime) to military service. I'll take Ruth as a player because of his career as a pitcher, but with the wood in his hand, Williams was probably the greatest.
 
#133
#133
volfanbill said:
well, being allowed to take half the plate away by wearing Robocop's arm protection and sitting on the inside made that ability a lot more feasible.
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It certainly kept him from having to hit a ball away and allowed him to keep using Mike Easley's stump to bat.
 
#134
#134
As of right now i think Willie Mays is the best all around player ever (not my favorite that would be griffey jr.), but as a pure hitter i would say either ted williams or pete rose.
 
#135
#135
VolBuck24 said:
As of right now i think Willie Mays is the best all around player ever (not my favorite that would be griffey jr.), but as a pure hitter i would say either ted williams or pete rose.
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Pete Rose as a pure hitter. That's crazy talk. The guy was a .300 hundred hittin' slapper. If you want slap hitters, there are far better ones out there, ie Carew and Gwynn.

Rose wasn't ever the best hitter in the game while he was playing. In his youth, there were several better, in the middle, Brett was always better and late he was nothing but a singles wienie.

Any all around look that doesn't include Bonds, with his hitting, Gold Gloves, and base stealing is crazy.
 
#136
#136
BigPapaVol said:
Pete Rose as a pure hitter. That's crazy talk. The guy was a .300 hundred hittin' slapper. If you want slap hitters, there are far better ones out there, ie Carew and Gwynn.

Rose wasn't ever the best hitter in the game while he was playing. In his youth, there were several better, in the middle, Brett was always better and late he was nothing but a singles wienie.

Any all around look that doesn't include Bonds, with his hitting, Gold Gloves, and base stealing is crazy.
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The fact that Rose has the hitting record qualifies him as a pure hitter and nobody said bonds wasn't one of the best all around players i just said i think mays is the best.
 
#137
#137
VolBuck24 said:
The fact that Rose has the hitting record qualifies him as a pure hitter and nobody said bonds wasn't one of the best all around players i just said i think mays is the best.
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Rose's hits record is nothing but pure at bats which speaks to longevity much more than hitting prowess.

Fair enough on Mays, but I'd take Bonds on the all around any day, and I don't like Bonds, but do Mays.
 
#138
#138
I am no fan of baseball. Just wanting to get your opinions.

Is it just me or has baseball sold it's soul to make up lost ground after the strike? It just seems like this whole debacle was allowed to happen simply because the sport needed to have some excitement and good story lines after the strike.
 
#139
#139
KB5252 said:
I am no fan of baseball. Just wanting to get your opinions.

Is it just me or has baseball sold it's soul to make up lost ground after the strike? It just seems like this whole debacle was allowed to happen simply because the sport needed to have some excitement and good story lines after the strike.
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there is no doubt that some of the blind eye treatment was about the long ball filling seats.

That said, the players' union also helped screw this goat.
 
#140
#140
BigPapaVol said:
Rose's hits record is nothing but pure at bats which speaks to longevity much more than hitting prowess.

Fair enough on Mays, but I'd take Bonds on the all around any day, and I don't like Bonds, but do Mays.
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I do like Bonds, but they could very well be 1-2 in this category.
 
#142
#142
BigPapaVol said:
Rose's hits record is nothing but pure at bats which speaks to longevity much more than hitting prowess.

Fair enough on Mays, but I'd take Bonds on the all around any day, and I don't like Bonds, but do Mays.
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I'm not a Bonds fan either, but if you're talking about the best all around players of all time, he has to top that list. As for Rose, I agree his record is due to longevity. However, the man was a flat out ball player. On that alone, he is in my top 15 of all time.
 
#143
#143
orangetanker11 said:
I'm not a Bonds fan either, but if you're talking about the best all around players of all time, he has to top that list. As for Rose, I agree his record is due to longevity. However, the man was a flat out ball player. On that alone, he is in my top 15 of all time.
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I didn't say he wasn't a ballplayer. He was a competitor and was the heart of the Big Red Machine, but he was not one of the best hitters of all time, nor even close.

I forgot to mention he's now an overly loud, redneck, POS Don Quixote type who's mad at the powers that be in baseball because he was too stupid to avoid gambling on games in which he had a hand in the outcome.
 
#144
#144
orangetanker11 said:
I'm not a Bonds fan either, but if you're talking about the best all around players of all time, he has to top that list. As for Rose, I agree his record is due to longevity. However, the man was a flat out ball player. On that alone, he is in my top 15 of all time.
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Mays makes as good an argument as any to be atop that list though. He has less homeruns i know but 4 more gold gloves with 12 (tied for most by an OF with clemente), a higher batting average, and more hits in the same amount of seasons. I am a bonds fan and thinks he deserves to be in the top 2 but Mays is right there with him. FWIW this debate could have been avoided had Griffey remained healthy but that's how it goes.
 
#145
#145
BigPapaVol said:
I didn't say he wasn't a ballplayer. He was a competitor and was the heart of the Big Red Machine, but he was not one of the best hitters of all time, nor even close.

I forgot to mention he's now an overly loud, redneck, POS Don Quixote type who's mad at the powers that be in baseball because he was too stupid to avoid gambling on games in which he had a hand in the outcome.
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He still should be in the HOF as a player though.
 
#148
#148
BigPapaVol said:
but he and Shoeless Joe remain excluded for a very specific reason.
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If Jackson hadn't received a dishonorable discharge from the game with so much left in the tank, there might not be any discussion about best hitter.
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#150
#150
this guy may not have the numbers to compete with ruth, bonds, etc. but if i had to pick one guy that i would want on my team first pick on the playground, i would choose Calvin Edwin Ripken, Jr.
 
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