Star Wars: Episode VII (December 18, 2015) ***SPOILERS***

[BenGrimm]

Wasn't nearly as hammy. Better acting. Better action.

I'll grant action. Modern FX allowed for some pretty awesome scenes with the Falcon.

Acting? Marginally better at best.

It was pretty hammy. From Finn asking Rey if she had a boyfriend, Han casually doing no look blast of stormtroopers, BB-8 doing a thumbs up, Hux's over the top Hitler speech, jokes about the Death Star, Kylo Ren having a good cry and so on.

As I said, I liked TFA, but it does not top ANH or Empire. I could see some putting it above Jedi at best (not me).

Very rarely have I thought remakes were better than the original, but if this is being categorized by everyone as a remake of A New Hope, it did most everything that movie did better. I can understand nostalgia and the whole first love thing though.

A New Hope is arguably John Williams' best work though. Right up there with his Harry Potter score for me.

So you think Ren is a better villain than Vader? The opening scene was better? Hux better than Tarkin?

 

[VolsSportsFan]

I'll grant action. Modern FX allowed for some pretty awesome scenes with the Falcon.

Acting? Marginally better at best.

It was pretty hammy. From Finn asking Rey if she had a boyfriend, Han casually doing no look blast of stormtroopers, BB-8 doing a thumbs up, Hux's over the top Hitler speech, jokes about the Death Star, Kylo Ren having a good cry and so on.

As I said, I liked TFA, but it does not top ANH or Empire. I could see some putting it above Jedi at best (not me).



So you think Ren is a better villain than Vader? The opening scene was better? Hux better than Tarkin?

All of this. There's a ton of cheese in TFA. It's good but no way I think it's better than ANH.

 

[Volwark]

Nobody in their right mind thinks The Force Awakens is better than a New Hope.

 

[vols 30]

The Force Awakens was better than A New Hope.

Not sure if serious

 

[CagleMtnVol]

TFA is both a sequel & a reboot for the franchise thus why it was so close to the original.

 

[BenGrimm]

TFA is both a sequel & a reboot for the franchise thus why it was so close to the original.

It didn't really need a 'rebbot' so to speak though. They played it safe and went with tried and true formula to placate fans.

There are certainly repetitive themes in SW that should be stuck to. Family, legacy, etc. They didn't really need a super Death Star.

 

[Volwark]

The real reason: they were lazy and couldn't come up with anything better.

 

[BenGrimm]

The real reason: they were lazy and couldn't come up with anything better.

I don't know about that. Even if they wanted to ignore the continuity of the EU there was plenty of ideas they could have drawn from.

They wanted to play it safe and make a movie that fans would be satisfied with and lay the found work for the new generation. Lazy? Perhaps.

 

[KnoxRealtorVOL]

In what way?!? It was basically A New Hope remixed with new characters.

I liked the movie but outside of updated FX I can't think of a single way it was better.

All of this. There's a ton of cheese in TFA. It's good but no way I think it's better than ANH.

Nobody in their right mind thinks The Force Awakens is better than a New Hope.

Not sure if serious

I'm curious to know from all of you, in what way is A New Hope better than TFA?

Score? Absolutely. But what else?

Acting? Nope.
Action? Nope.
Dialogue? Nope.
Special effects? Nope (understandable given the year)
Camerawork? Nope. (The three TIE Fighters against the backdrop of the sun in TFA, the X-Wings running along the water. Even if Lucas had the technology, he's not artistically capable of those kind of things)

You could make a case for A New Hope's "Death Star blow up" scene being better, but it's not really a fair comparison. The majority of the scene in TFA took place on the ground, with the air assault being supplementary. A more even comparison would be the assault in the Death Star in TFA vs. RotJ, in which case TFA wins by a mile due to the lack of fuzzy teddy bears killing stormtroopers with rocks.

The Force Awakens is better than A New Hope, it may be hard for those with extreme nostalgia to accept, but it's simply a better movie.

 

[Volwark]

30 years from now people will still be talking about a New Hope,and it will still have an impact on film and pop culture. The Force Awakens? Not so much. So nostalgia has nothing to do with it. RT, Meta Critic, tickets sales, and oscar nods all point to two things:

1. A New Hope is better than The Force Awakens
2. You're either trolling, insane, or stupid

 

[G0 BIG 0RANGE]

I'll grant action. Modern FX allowed for some pretty awesome scenes with the Falcon.

Acting? Marginally better at best.

It was pretty hammy. From Finn asking Rey if she had a boyfriend, Han casually doing no look blast of stormtroopers, BB-8 doing a thumbs up, Hux's over the top Hitler speech, jokes about the Death Star, Kylo Ren having a good cry and so on.

As I said, I liked TFA, but it does not top ANH or Empire. I could see some putting it above Jedi at best (not me).



So you think Ren is a better villain than Vader? The opening scene was better? Hux better than Tarkin?

I'm reserving an opinion on Ren until 8 & 9, but Vader wasn't a great villain until Empire, in my opinion. He was too subordinate to Tarkin, who is Grand Moff I know, but I felt like nobody but Palpatine should be telling Vader what to do. Hell, I may like Darth Maul more in his entry than Vader's. And I'm no fan of the prequels. Of course, Ren and Maul were written after Lucas knew where he was going with the story and the Sith/Dark Side, so it isn't fair to judge Vader in ANH so harshly.

I hope to read Tarkin soon. I hear it fleshes their relationship out better, but even then that is in a book, not the movie. I can't really say who I like better there.

The opening scene, as with much of the movie, was almost a direct remake of ANH. Special effects aside, I think it was just as badass as ANH. Except it didn't have R2. I really like BB8, but he isn't R2.

So yeah, I think TFA did most everything as good if not better than ANH.

 

[BenGrimm]

I'm curious to know from all of you, in what way is A New Hope better than TFA?

Score? Absolutely. But what else?

Acting? Nope.
Action? Nope.
Dialogue? Nope.
Special effects? Nope (understandable given the year)
Camerawork? Nope. (The three TIE Fighters against the backdrop of the sun in TFA, the X-Wings running along the water. Even if Lucas had the technology, he's not artistically capable of those kind of things)

You could make a case for A New Hope's "Death Star blow up" scene being better, but it's not really a fair comparison. The majority of the scene in TFA took place on the ground, with the air assault being supplementary. A more even comparison would be the assault in the Death Star in TFA vs. RotJ, in which case TFA wins by a mile due to the lack of fuzzy teddy bears killing stormtroopers with rocks.

The Force Awakens is better than A New Hope, it may be hard for those with extreme nostalgia to accept, but it's simply a better movie.

ANH has better characters and story. It really starts and ends there but let's talk about Lucas' artistic vision.

The opening crawl was unheard of and Lucas had to fight the writers and actors guilds to not have any credits at the start of the movie. That in itself was huge. Then it panned down to a Star Destroyer coming in from over head in a shot that seemed to go on forever. Now compare that to a silhouetted super Star Destroyer and strobe light Stormtrooper into of TFA?

Next you have the boarding of the Imperial and Darth Vader stepping through the smoke vs the New Order raiding a village full of people not fighting back. The only part there that is even remotely better was Ren stopping the blaster shot.

As for camera work, Star Wars followed in the foot steps of movies like Lawrence of Arabia with wide panoramic landscapes. For Sci-Fi this was huge. Yes new techniques have been developed that Abrams used quite well in TFA but not really anything you haven't seen in a dozen movies a year like Avengers for example. Showing Ties and X Wings fight in a planets atmosphere was cool but I don't think it's an indictment of Lucas.

Was the acting better? Marginally at best. Ford did OK but you could tell he was somewhat phoning it in.

Dialog? TFA had more one liners that's for sure. Is that better? ANH has quotable lines that will stick for generations to come. "Help us, Obiwan Kenobi. You're our only hope", "I find your lack of faith disturbing", "you'll never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy", "That's no moon", "I wanted to go to Toshi Station to pick up a new power converter"... And so on.

I'm going to stop there because keeping up this absurd discussion is making my like TAF less.

 

[G0 BIG 0RANGE]

I'm curious to know from all of you, in what way is A New Hope better than TFA?

Score? Absolutely. But what else?

Acting? Nope.
Action? Nope.
Dialogue? Nope.
Special effects? Nope (understandable given the year)
Camerawork? Nope. (The three TIE Fighters against the backdrop of the sun in TFA, the X-Wings running along the water. Even if Lucas had the technology, he's not artistically capable of those kind of things)

You could make a case for A New Hope's "Death Star blow up" scene being better, but it's not really a fair comparison. The majority of the scene in TFA took place on the ground, with the air assault being supplementary. A more even comparison would be the assault in the Death Star in TFA vs. RotJ, in which case TFA wins by a mile due to the lack of fuzzy teddy bears killing stormtroopers with rocks.

The Force Awakens is better than A New Hope, it may be hard for those with extreme nostalgia to accept, but it's simply a better movie.

I agree. Especially the absurdity of the Ewoks stoning Stormtroopers.

 

[G0 BIG 0RANGE]

30 years from now people will still be talking about a New Hope,and it will still have an impact on film and pop culture. The Force Awakens? Not so much. So nostalgia has nothing to do with it. RT, Meta Critic, tickets sales, and oscar nods all point to two things:

1. A New Hope is better than The Force Awakens
2. You're either trolling, insane, or stupid

A New Hope had the privilege of being unlike anything the world had seen before. So of course it has rock solid critical reviews, ticket sales, and Oscar nods for its ahead-of-its-time technology. People may not remember TFA like ANH decades from now, but that doesn't make it better movie. The same reason why nobody will ever forget Gone With The Wind or the Wizard of Oz, but I don't think they're good movies at all.

These are all opinions though, so no need to call people stupid for disagreeing.

 

[G0 BIG 0RANGE]

ANH has better characters and story. It really starts and ends there but let's talk about Lucas' artistic vision.

The opening crawl was unheard of and Lucas had to fight the writers and actors guilds to not have any credits at the start of the movie. That in itself was huge. Then it panned down to a Star Destroyer coming in from over head in a shot that seemed to go on forever. Now compare that to a silhouetted super Star Destroyer and strobe light Stormtrooper into of TFA?

Next you have the boarding of the Imperial and Darth Vader stepping through the smoke vs the New Order raiding a village full of people not fighting back. The only part there that is even remotely better was Ren stopping the blaster shot.

As for camera work, Star Wars followed in the foot steps of movies like Lawrence of Arabia with wide panoramic landscapes. For Sci-Fi this was huge. Yes new techniques have been developed that Abrams used quite well in TFA but not really anything you haven't seen in a dozen movies a year like Avengers for example. Showing Ties and X Wings fight in a planets atmosphere was cool but I don't think it's an indictment of Lucas.

Was the acting better? Marginally at best. Ford did OK but you could tell he was somewhat phoning it in.

Dialog? TFA had more one liners that's for sure. Is that better? ANH has quotable lines that will stick for generations to come. "Help us, Obiwan Kenobi. You're our only hope", "I find your lack of faith disturbing", "you'll never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy", "That's no moon", "I wanted to go to Toshi Station to pick up a new power converter"... And so on.

I'm going to stop there because keeping up this absurd discussion is making my like TAF less.

ANH did have more quotable lines, but is that because it's a better movie? Or because it came out of nowhere and took the world by storm creating nearly 40 years worth of followers. Casablanca and GWTW are quotable as hell too, but I don't care for them. Not saying I don't like ANH, it is probably tied for second with TFA for me.

 

[Volwark]

A New Hope had the privilege of being unlike anything the world had seen before. So of course it has rock solid critical reviews, ticket sales, and Oscar nods for its ahead-of-its-time technology. People may not remember TFA like ANH decades from now, but that doesn't make it better movie. The same reason why nobody will ever forget Gone With The Wind or the Wizard of Oz, but I don't think they're good movies at all.

These are all opinions though, so no need to call people stupid for disagreeing.

I'm sorry to be blunt, but some opinions are pretty stupid when they don't have much to back them up other than your own personal preference.

A New Hope got oscar nods for Best Picture, Best Supporting Actor, Best Director, and Best Screenplay.

None of which having to do with its technological achievements, and none of which The Force Awakens accomplished.

It's one thing to like The Force Awakens better than A New Hope. I mean there's people out there that actually like the PT better than the OT. But to outright say that The Force Awakens is better is - quite frankly - dumb.

 

[BigOrange15]

Very rarely have I thought remakes were better than the original, but if this is being categorized by everyone as a remake of A New Hope, it did most everything that movie did better. I can understand nostalgia and the whole first love thing though.

A New Hope is arguably John Williams' best work though. Right up there with his Harry Potter score for me.

A New Hope probably has the greatest soundtrack of all time and John Williams is probably the greatest movie score composer of all time...with all that said, I was extremely disappointed in the score for this movie. It was by far my biggest gripe with TFA.

 

[BigOrange15]

I'm sorry to be blunt, but some opinions are pretty stupid when they don't have much to back them up other than your own personal preference.

A New Hope got oscar nods for Best Picture, Best Supporting Actor, Best Director, and Best Screenplay.

None of which having to do with its technological achievements, and none of which The Force Awakens accomplished.

It's one thing to like The Force Awakens better than A New Hope. I mean there's people out there that actually like the PT better than the OT. But to outright say that The Force Awakens is better is - quite frankly - dumb.

I think this movie was close but it has been done before...by A New Hope, which was groundbreaking for it's time and a game changer as far as effects in movies. New Hope is still my favorite Star Wars film.

 

[Volwark]

I do think it's funny that the best defense people have for The Force Awakens is to bash or belittle A New Hope, the film which got most of us into Star Wars in the first place and has received the most accolades.

 

[G0 BIG 0RANGE]

I'm sorry to be blunt, but some opinions are pretty stupid when they don't have much to back them up other than your own personal preference.

A New Hope got oscar nods for Best Picture, Best Supporting Actor, Best Director, and Best Screenplay.

None of which having to do with its technological achievements, and none of which The Force Awakens accomplished.

It's one thing to like The Force Awakens better than A New Hope. I mean there's people out there that actually like the PT better than the OT. But to outright say that The Force Awakens is better is - quite frankly - dumb.

That's what an opinion is. A completely subjective belief, including personal preferences. There is no way of factually proving any movie is better than another. Sure, ANH garnered some high level Oscar nods, but so did Avatar. It damn near won best picture and it was awful (in my opinion). Lots of s****y movies, actors, directors, etc. have been nominated or won Oscars, so I take those awards with a grain of salt. Almost winning some overrated awards doesn't measure anything. Like I said, it's all opinion, no need to be a jerk.

 

[G0 BIG 0RANGE]

I do think it's funny that the best defense people have for The Force Awakens is to bash or belittle A New Hope, the film which got most of us into Star Wars in the first place and has received the most accolades.

Nobody is bashing ANH. I think everyone here loves it. Some of us just don't think it is better than Episode 7. I rank it 2nd with TFA or maybe slightly behind at 3rd. Blasphemy? Maybe, but who cares? It's just an opinion about a movie.

And Titanic and Ben Hur and The Return of the King won 11 Oscars. Does that make them the top 3 movies of all time? I sure as hell hope not.

 

[Volwark]

Nobody is comparing Avatar, Titanic, etc to Star Wars or The Force Awakens. That has nothing to do with it. Stop using strawman arguments.

And, yes, people did bash Star Wars to defend The Force Awakens, calling the acting "hammy" and the dialogue bad among other things. Not to mention trying to discredit it by using the weak "nostalgia" excuse.

 

[gordonr24]

I'll try to end this argument and inject some humor into this thread.

Kylo Ren as Matt in Undercover Boss at Starkiller Base.

Star Wars Undercover Boss: Starkiller Base - SNL - YouTube

 

[BigOrange15]

I'll try to end this argument and inject some humor into this thread.

Kylo Ren as Matt in Undercover Boss at Starkiller Base.

Star Wars Undercover Boss: Starkiller Base - SNL - YouTube

Hilarious.

 

[KnoxRealtorVOL]

That's what an opinion is. A completely subjective belief, including personal preferences. There is no way of factually proving any movie is better than another. Sure, ANH garnered some high level Oscar nods, but so did Avatar. It damn near won best picture and it was awful (in my opinion). Lots of s****y movies, actors, directors, etc. have been nominated or won Oscars, so I take those awards with a grain of salt. Almost winning some overrated awards doesn't measure anything. Like I said, it's all opinion, no need to be a jerk.

This all day.

Unless you want to make the argument that Avatar is one of the best movies of all time, then A New Hope was clearly littered with accolades mostly because of how groundbreaking it was. Sorry The Force Awakens came out in the same era as some of the most visually stunning films of all time.

I love ANH. It's terrific. But stack up ANH and TFA side by side right now, and show them to someone who has seen neither. Even if you juiced up ANH with today's special effects, it's not as good of a movie as TFA.

1. Empire
2. Force Awakens
3. A New Hope