Star Watching (merged)

#226
#226
sjt18 said:
I think it is much more likely that several of them end up satisfying the star watchers by getting a 4th or 5th star.

I don't think the staff is taking commits right now from guys they don't believe have the talent to win championships. This staff isn't a bunch of rookies who don't know football. They also know their jobs depend on getting to a championship level before fan patience runs out (3-4 years).

It would be career suicide for them to take commits from guys who they consider second tier. Maybe you do that in January or on NSD... but not in July-August before they play their senior season.
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Several? Like more than half? Do you really think that's likely...
 
#227
#227
VKAman said:
Kiffin didn't build his entire class on guys no one has picked up on...I think that's the point Sab is trying to make.
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Neither is Dooley. Several have very, very good offer lists.
But yeah, I'm bashing Dooley because I don't think we will have the #1 class. Keep up the genius thinking.
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I'm sorry... but where did I suggest that?

IMO, you are bashing Dooley primarily because he isn't Kiffin and is nothing like Kiffin. I think you are so enamoured with Kiffin's style and approach that you dismiss the possibility that DD might get the job done in a different way.
 
#228
#228
I say again. DEPTH,DEPTH, AND MORE DEPTH. Still time to get some big fish. They will come, be patient. Its killing me too, I just have to believe they will come.
 
#229
#229
sjt18 said:
I think it is much more likely that several of them end up satisfying the star watchers by getting a 4th or 5th star.

I don't think the staff is taking commits right now from guys they don't believe have the talent to win championships. This staff isn't a bunch of rookies who don't know football. They also know their jobs depend on getting to a championship level before fan patience runs out (3-4 years).

It would be career suicide for them to take commits from guys who they consider second tier. Maybe you do that in January or on NSD... but not in July-August before they play their senior season.
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Bill Dance can't catch record bass in a catfish pond.
 
#232
#232
sjt18 said:
Neither is Dooley. Several have very, very good offer lists.

I'm sorry... but where did I suggest that?

IMO, you are bashing Dooley primarily because he isn't Kiffin and is nothing like Kiffin. I think you are so enamoured with Kiffin's style and approach that you dismiss the possibility that DD might get the job done in a different way.
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Another "several." If "several" means "less than half," you might have a point.

And no, I just don't see how the class to this point is "getting the job done." I don't care about Kiffin's approach, but when I say that his class at this point was better than Dooley's is and that probably won't change by Signing Day, I'm a "Dooley basher" because no one else wants to admit it.
 
#233
#233
VKAman said:
Several? Like more than half? Do you really think that's likely...
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I think Posey, Coleman, Saulsberry, Smith, and Randolph all have a good shot if they build on their JR years.

Even though Worley was liked by CLK and this staff, I doubt he rises to a 4*.

I honestly think Downs and Crowder have 4* talent but probably 2* development due to having grown up in TN football (rather than a state like GA) and because of competition. I doubt either moves up.

When Power gets rated he'll probably be a 3* unless he has a really good season this year.

Harris has me scratching my head a little but CLT knows LB talent.

Carson? I just honestly don't know. He looked pretty good in the clip I saw... but I just don't know.
 
#234
#234
Anyone who doesn't think a couple of these guys aren't projects (IMO Saulsberry, Harris, Carson, Powers etc.) are delusional. Whether we want to believe it or not, there are kids from last class and this upcoming class that will likely never even see the field.
 
#236
#236
Character=Respect! Players with character, respect authority figures i.e. coaches. This makes it easier to teach and coach them. Not to mention the fact that those same players will work harder in order not to disappoint their coaches. On the other hand you can't teach someone who thinks they're great already i. e. some 5* and 4* recruits. I'll take 3* with potential and let the coaches coach em up. We will get more effort and drive to be better from them. JMO GBO!!!!!!!!!!!
 
#237
#237
sjt18 said:
I think Posey, Coleman, Saulsberry, Smith, and Randolph all have a good shot if they build on their JR years.

Even though Worley was liked by CLK and this staff, I doubt he rises to a 4*.

I honestly think Downs and Crowder have 4* talent but probably 2* development due to having grown up in TN football (rather than a state like GA) and because of competition. I doubt either moves up.

When Power gets rated he'll probably be a 3* unless he has a really good season this year.

Harris has me scratching my head a little but CLT knows LB talent.

Carson? I just honestly don't know. He looked pretty good in the clip I saw... but I just don't know.
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It just doesn't happen often. For one, almost all of the guys that move up to 4*s move up from 5.7 (high) 3*s. We only have two of those. On top of that, there are always a lot more guys who "could" move up than there are guys that actually do. Zach Fulton is an example.

I just would be really surprised if we have more than three 4*s on our current commit list, and I would say that even if Kiffin had these same guys. The reality is that most of them don't move up.
 
#238
#238
I understand the argument, but it's a little early to be having this conversation, IMO. Come January, we will know much more. I definitely wouldn't compare it to Kiffins recruiting. When you throw out Myles, B. Brown, Nuke and Edwards, his class would have been lucky to have been top 20. Janzen Jackson could have and maybe should have been gone. Then we would probably not have been in the top 25. That is one thing I can say about the class Dooley is building so far. With about 60 - 70% of the current commits being EE's, I would be surprised to have a lot of issues from these kids. Maybe there are some things Dooley's see's in some of these high star players that he doesn't like and doesn't want to go after. Maybe he feels like if they are gone after a year anyways, they are not worth the trouble. Just speculating of course.
 
#239
#239
VKAman said:
I'm a "Dooley basher" because no one else wants to admit it.
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Admit what? He hasn't coached a game yet. The only "finished product" he's produced in recruiting was pretty impressive. He put together a very good staff. He's a whole season away from NSD and because you ASSUME that he won't do well... you bash.

You started bashing from the very start and haven't let up. What are we supposed to admit? You've made up your mind without having tangible reasons... Why should any rational person just "admit" that you are right until we have a good reason?
 
#240
#240
sjt18 said:
Admit what? He hasn't coached a game yet. The only "finished product" he's produced in recruiting was pretty impressive. He put together a very good staff. He's a whole season away from NSD and because you ASSUME that he won't do well... you bash.

You started bashing from the very start and haven't let up. What are we supposed to admit? You've made up your mind without having tangible reasons... Why should any rational person just "admit" that you are right until we have a good reason?
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Dont resort to using common sense, it wont get you far here.
 
#242
#242
EricFreakingBerry said:
Anyone who doesn't think a couple of these guys aren't projects (IMO Saulsberry, Harris, Carson, Powers etc.) are delusional. Whether we want to believe it or not, there are kids from last class and this upcoming class that will likely never even see the field.
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Power is not a project. He's either an immediate player or scrimmage fodder.

Some players will always be projects regardless of stars- see Askew.

Some players in EVERY class will never see the field. That's just the reality of it.
 
#244
#244
Sabanocchio said:
And no one who is anybody wants him.

You guys can spout off any statistics you want but you can look at an offer list and tell a helluva lot about a prospect.

Some of our commitments have offer lists belying their star rating and that's great. Most pretty accurately reflect them.

I've said my piece. I'll let the excuse-makers continue to fill the discussion with reasons we should all feel warm and fuzzy.
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I'm sure our coaches know a lot more than you do about who to recruit and when to offer them a scholly...

I mean, unless you are some great undiscovered football mind, than you really have no room to talk. You are getting all of your info from TOS, you don't have a clue son.

He made second team ahead of a 4star recruit, to me that says he is at least a 4*. but I don't count the stars like you obvisously do.

You say you're not doing it, but by posting this long thread about this kid not having great offers and what not, that's exactly what youre doing.

Maybe he's not been on a lot of lists because a lot of teams dont have the lack of depth that we do.

We've got to fill in some holes. Why not wait til signing day before you bash the class. You dont want to count the stars.. eheh, I mean chickens before they hatch now do ya?!

I have complete faith that this staff to which we are paying millions of dollars knows what they want in a football player.
 
#245
#245
perhaps we are getting less talented kids who will work harder and play harder in order to show and encourage the more talented kids the proper attitude and therefore help them perform more to their potential.
 
#247
#247
I guess I just don't understand how it's not possible to be cautious, maybe even pessimistic, after the coaching turnover without all the proclamations to fire Dooley now.

We all have to agree it would be difficult for nearly anyone to recruit here right now. Putting together the class he has so far shows recruiting *potential* but nothing more in my opinion. We're going to struggle and it's going to come down to the product on the field before we can even think about top classes/championships.
 
#248
#248
I like the position we are in with Martin, walls, countess, clear, Richardson, kerbyson, aj Johnson, Townsend, Morris, arnett, Wright, Gosha.... so Hardy instead of spouting off back it up.
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#250
#250
VKAman said:
It just doesn't happen often. For one, almost all of the guys that move up to 4*s move up from 5.7 (high) 3*s. We only have two of those. On top of that, there are always a lot more guys who "could" move up than there are guys that actually do. Zach Fulton is an example.

I just would be really surprised if we have more than three 4*s on our current commit list, and I would say that even if Kiffin had these same guys. The reality is that most of them don't move up.
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I'm not saying you are wrong... just saying those guys can have a season that would push them up.

Mitigating against what you say this year though is the fact that Rivals is understaffed and late.

Regardless of any of this... this year BETTER be a year that coaches trust their eyes and not their ears. If they're waiting on Rivals then they'll be in rough shape. Rivals has been the standard the others have been compared to. Not so much this year.
 
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