State of Emergency: The Third World Invasion and Conquest of America

#178
#178
therealUT said:
I am all for building walls on both our borders, as long as the immigration quota is raised significantly and the turn around time on immigration requests is reduced from 6 months to around a week or two. Until that happens, I am pro illegal immigration.
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Hypothetical - if your unit was sent to the border, would you obey orders and enforce the law?
 
#181
#181
CSpindizzy said:
So you're saying although you disagree with the law, you believe it should be honored...correct?
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I am saying that as a military officer, I do not have the choice, as long as I wish to attain my rank and position. I do. However, I am stating that I believe that Congress should legislate a lot of common sense into immigration law. The reason so many come illegally from Mexico is because they would never be admitted legally. The turn around on the applications right now is anywhere between 6 and 18 months, and one of the requirements is there must be a specific job waiting on the other end. On top of that, the limit on visas is around 85,000!
 
#182
#182
Give the person a college degree and a large amount of technical knowledge and see how fast his path to the US is.
 
#183
#183
CSpindizzy said:
Give the person a college degree and a large amount of technical knowledge and see how fast his path to the US is.
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The US is not short on skilled labor. We are incredibly short on unskilled labor.
We might not agree on exactly what the quota should be set at, but, you must agree that 6 months is too long for an employer to have to wait for an employee and that 85,000 visas per year is too low.
 
#184
#184
Oh I'm not saying I agree or disagree. I'm merely saying that if the person is highly skilled, his path is much shorter.
 
#186
#186
therealUT said:
The US is not short on skilled labor. We are incredibly short on unskilled labor.
We might not agree on exactly what the quota should be set at, but, you must agree that 6 months is too long for an employer to have to wait for an employee and that 85,000 visas per year is too low.
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I don't think we are that short on unskilled labor. We may be short on enough people with a good work etihc willing to do trivial work, but I do not think we are lacking in numbers of workers
 
#187
#187
So why should businesses suffer when there is a lack of work ethic? Why shouldn't they be able to hire those with the skills they need to complete the job?
 
#188
#188
I'll go one further. Let's use textiles for example. My prior company closed half it's plant last year and this year after selling out to their Brazilian partner. The Brazilians shut us down immediately and only kept our distribution centers so they would have a direct import point. Why?? Because the Clinton law that Bush could have overturned allowed all textile import quotas and tariffs to expire at the end of 2005.

Second, Fruit of the Loom closed a 900 employee plant in NE GA because they needed to cut cost. since offices are in KY, they didn't close a costlier and less productive plant there. Why?? Because it is cheaper for them, with the current US gov't incentives in place, to close out american jobs, ship the production overseas, and reimport the finished goods. Our government makes it more attractive for American companies to screw American workers.

Point - There are multitudes of skilled and non-skilled, highly ethical houlry wage workers available that want to work, and will work hard. They are available all over the textile belt. Some of the best laborers I've ever seen are now jobless, and pushed out of any remaining american jobs by illegals. What's more, these illegals are allowed to possess on of 3 to 5 documents that they present to HR when getting hired. Most of these docs are forged. Corporate America is not allowed to question the validity of the docs as that would be discrimination. So, the argument that companies ought to be severly waxed for hiring them is negated by the fact that the government will raid them for hiring people that they are subsequently not allowed to question on legal status. Corporate America and the American worker are screwed by our governments practices and policies.
 
#189
#189
GVF said:
I'll go one further. Let's use textiles for example. My prior company closed half it's plant last year and this year after selling out to their Brazilian partner. The Brazilians shut us down immediately and only kept our distribution centers so they would have a direct import point. Why?? Because the Clinton law that Bush could have overturned allowed all textile import quotas and tariffs to expire at the end of 2005.

Second, Fruit of the Loom closed a 900 employee plant in NE GA because they needed to cut cost. since offices are in KY, they didn't close a costlier and less productive plant there. Why?? Because it is cheaper for them, with the current US gov't incentives in place, to close out american jobs, ship the production overseas, and reimport the finished goods. Our government makes it more attractive for American companies to screw American workers.

Point - There are multitudes of skilled and non-skilled, highly ethical houlry wage workers available that want to work, and will work hard. They are available all over the textile belt. Some of the best laborers I've ever seen are now jobless, and pushed out of any remaining american jobs by illegals. What's more, these illegals are allowed to possess on of 3 to 5 documents that they present to HR when getting hired. Most of these docs are forged. Corporate America is not allowed to question the validity of the docs as that would be discrimination. So, the argument that companies ought to be severly waxed for hiring them is negated by the fact that the government will raid them for hiring people that they are subsequently not allowed to question on legal status. Corporate America and the American worker are screwed by our governments practices and policies.
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True to a point. The point is this: wages should be set by the market, not by the government. As the world becomes smaller, through technology, shipping costs decrease and therefore, foreign labor costs decrease. It has gotten to the point where it is cheaper to pay foreign labor a couple dollars per day and pay for the shipping, rather than pay Americans $5.15/hr (will be $7.25) for 40 hours, then $7.75/hr (will be $10.90) for each hour above 40.
People do not start up businesses for the sole purpose of providing jobs (and, therefore, a living) to others. People go into business to make money for themselves. Therefore, they are going to use the most cost effective means of getting their product to the market, then set the price (their margin) in line with that of the market.
 
#190
#190
How do you figure they are not allowed to question a potential employee? When I'm hired there is a sheet that actually shows legal forms of ID that have to be presented. If the forms of ID are lower in 'quality' they have to be mixed with other IDs as well.

I don't see where a company does not have the ability to vett potential employees to verify their legal status. There are criminal background checks and the forms of ID needed to verify status.
 
#191
#191
CSpindizzy said:
So why should businesses suffer when there is a lack of work ethic? Why shouldn't they be able to hire those with the skills they need to complete the job?
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Where did I say businesses should suffer? Where did I say they could not hire who they wanted?
 
#194
#194
CSpindizzy said:
How do you figure they are not allowed to question a potential employee? When I'm hired there is a sheet that actually shows legal forms of ID that have to be presented. If the forms of ID are lower in 'quality' they have to be mixed with other IDs as well.

I don't see where a company does not have the ability to vett potential employees to verify their legal status. There are criminal background checks and the forms of ID needed to verify status.
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We've been through that. Recently. Can't do it. When Immigration is rumored to be around, they all disappear. Statistics will show that approxiamtely 90% of all "Latin" immigrants are not legal, and neither is their paperwork.
 
#195
#195
Then if this is questionable then our whole documentation system for even Americans is questionable. So why should we bother with any documentation if the fraud rate is so high? How can we trust anyone who applies for a job?
 
#196
#196
therealUT said:
True to a point. The point is this: wages should be set by the market, not by the government. As the world becomes smaller, through technology, shipping costs decrease and therefore, foreign labor costs decrease. It has gotten to the point where it is cheaper to pay foreign labor a couple dollars per day and pay for the shipping, rather than pay Americans $5.15/hr (will be $7.25) for 40 hours, then $7.75/hr (will be $10.90) for each hour above 40.
People do not start up businesses for the sole purpose of providing jobs (and, therefore, a living) to others. People go into business to make money for themselves. Therefore, they are going to use the most cost effective means of getting their product to the market, then set the price (their margin) in line with that of the market.
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That also is true, and in the process of all that, the government policies now in effect opening all our markets to free and unrestricted trade is not bringing the rest of the world to our standard of living. It is bringing us to theirs. We are moving from capitalism to world socialism where only those in power are well off, and the rest will be iron curtain poor. As the decades go by, and we continue to ship our hard manufacturing overseas, our economy will dwindle. Hard manufacturing is the backbone of a strong economy and a strong nation. A service based economy, as we are moving to, won't cut it in the long run. The time of the Greeks and Romans will come nigh. When you become fat, lazy, and indifferent, your days are numbered.
 
#197
#197
CSpindizzy said:
Then if this is questionable then our whole documentation system for even Americans is questionable. So why should we bother with any documentation if the fraud rate is so high? How can we trust anyone who applies for a job?
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My documentation system is not questionable. I have a certifide birth certificate from the state of Georgia, a vaild drivers license, and passport. I had to pass that test. They get licenses for not even being able to read road signs. there is politically correct double standard in America, and if you are born here in middle class, of European decent, you are screwed and will bear most of the cost of the nation while everyone else gets it free.
 
#198
#198
Does everyone here realize that the unemployment, as of the end of July, for the US is only 4.8%? Assuming that every person in America was accounted for in that formula, kids, the elderly, not just those seeking employment, at most the available unemployed work force is 14 million. Yet, you have the AFL (Union lobby) stating that around 15.5 million Americans are unemployed and actively seeking employment. The truth lies somewhere in the middle, however, I would speculate that we need the work that is provided by the 12 million (work force of around 7 to 8) illegal immigrants in the US.
Closing the borders and keeping the immigrants from taking work in the US (which is what will happen as I doubt Congress will do much to push through great changes in the legal immigration process) will lead to a lot of layoffs for lower middle class and middle class Americans. There will be less need for supervisors, as corporations follow the cheap labor force out of the country.
 
#199
#199
GVF said:
That also is true, and in the process of all that, the government policies now in effect opening all our markets to free and unrestricted trade is not bringing the rest of the world to our standard of living. It is bringing us to theirs. We are moving from capitalism to world socialism where only those in power are well off, and the rest will be iron curtain poor. As the decades go by, and we continue to ship our hard manufacturing overseas, our economy will dwindle. Hard manufacturing is the backbone of a strong economy and a strong nation. A service based economy, as we are moving to, won't cut it in the long run. The time of the Greeks and Romans will come nigh. When you become fat, lazy, and indifferent, your days are numbered.
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Our industries are moving oversees because nobody is going to pay factory workers at the legislated and Union mandated rates, when they can get the same labor for a lot less in other parts of the world. There will always be poverty, it is a fact of life. There will always be those people who work hard from day 1 and make something of themselves, and there will be those who don't. However, every time a body tries to legislate a small group out of poverty (ie, raising the minimum wage,) the result is that a larger group ends up impoverished.
 
#200
#200
therealUT said:
Our industries are moving oversees because nobody is going to pay factory workers at the legislated and Union mandated rates, when they can get the same labor for a lot less in other parts of the world. There will always be poverty, it is a fact of life. There will always be those people who work hard from day 1 and make something of themselves, and there will be those who don't. However, every time a body tries to legislate a small group out of poverty (ie, raising the minimum wage,) the result is that a larger group ends up impoverished.
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But...foreign auto makers, Euro and Asian alike, are building plants by the dozen with all the auxillary mfg. that accompanies them in the U.S. Especially, here in the southern non-union sector where textiles has fallen. And, they are making good profits. They pay extremely well. I am a manager, and a line worker at BMW makes more than me. You start out sweeping floors at $14/hr. All benefits are 100% company paid. Why can our own companies not do the same??
 
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