State of Tennessee Wins the Injunction

[greenbacknative]

Dear Pat forde.... eat some fecal matter. You Hack !!!

 

[Woodlawn VOL]

No one said UT shouldn't do all they can and have the set up for all that can give all the money they can to get the best athletes! What some people mean is that the NIL money these teenagers are getting is insane and needs to be capped and controlled better! How would you feel as a coach working 100 hours a week with a weekly check of less than 10% of what a smart mouthed and disrespectful player was making who didn't even do much to benefit the team?

In time it will work itself out. Folks aren’t going to pay crazy money without a good return. Things will balance on their own if it is given a chance. Look at A@M just throwing crazy money to anybody doesn’t guarantee automatic success. Still more to it than that. And what about A@M? Why in Haiti wasn’t the NCAA investigating them 2 years ago going all wild with the cash. I will tell you why, they feared going up against all that oil money. They aren’t interested in justice, they just go after the ones they either want to or they think they can bully. They are low class cherry pickers of the first degree. They are corrupt six ways to Sunday. GBO

 

[unfrozencvmanvol]

Congress regulates industries where the people that do the work can't get paid for it?
I'd be interested in hearing just what those are.

I've said multiple times, like five at least, in this thread alone that I think some sort of profit sharing arrangement would be one of Congress's conditions, but yes, if the NCAA were given an antitrust exemption they could regulate players payments based on the fact that playing CFB is voluntary, not compulsory. If you join a club/organization you are subject to its rules, even if those rules involve limits on the amount and method of your compensation. Where the players are winning in court now though is by arguing the NCAA is the only game in town for 18 to 21 year olds, i.e. a monopoly and that their attempts to price fix thus violate antitrust. If Congress gives them an exemption though, that would eliminate the current legal problem with regulating payment.

 

[volfanhill]

The Ncaa will be on us like stink on **** to find the least little offense in the future in all sports. We need to stay squeaky clean until the are put out of business, if that happens. It is the DNA for bureaucrats to exact revenge on people who beat or embarrass them.

They've been told to F off many times by many programs. They are a toothless body. I mean hell we got caught doing some seriously egregious crap and very minor penalties by comparison

 

[cgrish]

I'm just talking about NCAA-conferences getting together so everyone understands the rules and on the same page, which everyone is not right now. Not talking about restricting anything. Just clarifying the rules so the NCAA doesn't pick and choose the rules they want to enforce.

There are no rules to discuss, its pay for play to the highest bidder, or the students choice. Nothing to discuss.

 

[cgrish]

Not that my take matters in the least, but it seems to me they shouldn't.

That being said, the sanctimonious jackasses will probably push this as far as they can instead of cutting their losses.

The way I understand it. NCCA has no jurisdiction at all concerning nil at this time.

 

[MountainDooley]

No one said UT shouldn't do all they can and have the set up for all that can give all the money they can to get the best athletes! What some people mean is that the NIL money these teenagers are getting is insane and needs to be capped and controlled better! How would you feel as a coach working 100 hours a week with a weekly check of less than 10% of what a smart mouthed and disrespectful player was making who didn't even do much to benefit the team?

If you’re that worried about the coaches, you should cap their earning potential and tell them it’s for their own good.

Someone or something is worth whatever some else is willing to pay for it. What gives you the right to place limits on that? I’m sure there are several others who agree with your ideology. It’s pretty big in Russia and China.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

Dangerous territory doing that, at that point it looks like a witch hunt and would probably end up back in court. And they don’t need that publicity. It only makes them look like the uneven justice cherry pickers they are. The NCAA’s leverage power is at a all time low. If Tennessee wins and NCAA keeps trying to rail strong arm tactics I think the sec and big 10 will just break away because it will only be a matter of time before they would have to look at other schools with the same veracity. GBO

Agreed. The ACC, Big 12, and AAC will probably go with them.

 

[cgrish]

According to Knox News, here is a list of options that could happen:

View attachment 622300

Nothing wrong with private jet, concerning nil. Boosters are mentioned in judges ruling in the case, that ncaa has no jurisdiction on these matters at this time.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

I've said multiple times, like five at least, in this thread alone that I think some sort of profit sharing arrangement would be one of Congress's conditions, but yes, if the NCAA were given an antitrust exemption they could regulate players payments based on the fact that playing CFB is voluntary, not compulsory. If you join a club/organization you are subject to its rules, even if those rules involve limits on the amount and method of your compensation. Where the players are winning in court now though is by arguing the NCAA is the only game in town for 18 to 21 year olds, i.e. a monopoly and that their attempts to price fix thus violate antitrust. If Congress gives them an exemption though, that would eliminate the current legal problem with regulating payment.

An Antitrust Exemption doesn't prevent the courts from determining the players are employees, however.

In fact, a "salary cap" or "compensation limit" certainly implies they would be employees.

That changes everything and while they can unionize and collective bargain for wages, they can also bargain to have the student portion removed, since they've got a job that doesn't have anything to do with Geology or Political Science or History. Does the school make the maintenance employees attend college? I can smell the lawsuit from here.

Past that, are the tennis team, volleyball team, swim team, THAT much different from football and basketball? Aren't they employees too? Shouldn't they be paid also? I can smell that lawsuit from here also.

Yes, an Antitrust Exemption helps the NCAA but Justice Kavanaugh laid it out clearly: the student athlete model is broken.

 

[madbamahater]

Time for lawmakers to step in and end the NIL and portal madness before it is too late.

Congress can write new laws, but they will be deemed unconstitutional by the Supreme Court.

 

[Voluble2]

What exactly has UT won? The chance to out-bribe all the other majors for high-school prospects? Good luck with that. Vol fans seem to have deluded themselves into thinking that NIL in recruiting is going to give us some sort of competitive advantage. Seriously? You think Georgia, Bama, OSU, Florida, Michigan and all the rest are going sit around whistling Dixie while we buy a national title team? Ha, ha. A&M just spent $76 million to fire a coach. Every major and their fans are insane, and nobody is getting a competitive advantage. It's a fool's game, a corrupt game, and it will turn high-school prospects into cynical mercenaries.

The judge's ruling is nonsense. His legal point about anti-trust is only relevant because the schools were stupid and opted to drag NIL into recruiting. It wasn't conceived to be used to bribe prospects. Had none of the schools formed collectives and starting throwing money at pimply prospects--half of whom won't even pan out in college--none of this would be an issue.

At the end of the day, it will be a huge waste of money--and there will be a lot of 3rd-string safeties laughing at all the money their making for spending one hour a month walking around a shopping mall and signing 5 autographs. Damn: Everybody thought they'd be good players, but turns out, they weren't.

But if you guys want to cash out your 401K's to try and help our collective sign that tight end from Indiana--who says that if we just boost our bribe by 25 percent, we'll jump into his top 5, well go for it. If it doesn't work out, you'll still have your cars to sleep in.

All of that sounds better than violating a person's rights for our amusement.

 

[Woodlawn VOL]

The majority of players still want a education despite what some portray on here. Just let NIL work itself out, the NIL is giving other lower sports opportunities too, maybe not as big as some but opportunities none the less. Keep grades and rules in place and violations of misconduct as they have always been. This is the type of system the power 5 needs to move to with another governing body if the NCAA can’t accept it.

 

[DaddyChad]

Did you have a bad day?

Oh he had a very bad day. On the bright side he does get to go on nonsensical bitch tirades over NIL in every thread now. Pretty much all the dude does is complain about NIL.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

The majority of players still want a education despite what some portray on here. Just let NIL work itself out, the NIL is giving other lower sports opportunities too, maybe not as big as some but opportunities none the less. Keep grades and rules in place and violations of misconduct as they have always been. This is the type of system the power 5 needs to move to with another governing body if the NCAA can’t accept it.

It's not what WE want or THEY want that matter. If the courts determine players are employees, as the Supreme Court heavily implied they would in Alston, they are not student athletes but "student professional employees" or some such.

Sure, I hope this takes forever in the courts but the NCAA seems determined to speed up the process by "flexing" on programs about NIL until they're sued out of business.

Replacing the NCAA will not be easy when the SCOTUS plainly said their business model was in violation of the Sherman Act.

Without amateur status, the "student athlete" idea crumbles to "professional athlete" quickly.

 

[butchna]

On the subject of the NCAA: Their intentions, motivations, thought process et al…maybe at one time it was a noble venture on their part, with the truest of intentions but that recessed well before they lost the grip on football’s broadcasting rights imo. As the money gradually expanded to millions, hundreds of millions and now billions, that beauracracy’s currency became power and control in mostly nitpicky, micromanaged fashion. What’s outed them with their contradictory statement vs actions stems from the moment they latched on to power coaches and gave them free passes for their bag games. You can attempt to characterize it as legit recruiting but every kid on a roster with a Dodge Charger and a mom/dad/family set up in a nice house with a cush job screams otherwise. That’s suddenly not enough and we’re seeing the weaponized response. Why? Simple, and I’ll allow for healthy skepticism but it requires an astronomical leap of faith for me to believe that the NCAA has utilized blinders with Bama, UGA, (sometimes Florida), Ohio State amongst a select few out of simple admiration for the program/HC. SOMETHING made it worth their while and it’s been threatened. That’s why they picked a fight they can’t win…they had no choice. Better Charge of the Light Brigade than your card being declined at Chipotle’s

 

[turbovol]

In time it will work itself out. Folks aren’t going to pay crazy money without a good return. Things will balance on their own if it is given a chance. Look at A@M just throwing crazy money to anybody doesn’t guarantee automatic success. Still more to it than that. And what about A@M? Why in Haiti wasn’t the NCAA investigating them 2 years ago going all wild with the cash. I will tell you why, they feared going up against all that oil money. They aren’t interested in justice, they just go after the ones they either want to or they think they can bully. They are low class cherry pickers of the first degree. They are corrupt six ways to Sunday. GBO

A good return? You have no idea what you're getting with a high-school player. There have been studies showing that half the top 100 prospects do not make a major impact in college, for various reasons. And there will be absurd bidding wars for some top prospects--maybe a lot of them--because nobody wants to get left out. There will be escalation---guaranteed. We've got fans of our women's BB program who say it doesn't recruit well because it's not spending enough money on bribes---aka--NIL offers. It's no different than the facilities wars in the SEC: One program upgrades its weight room or locker room, and the other major programs in the conference then HAVE to follow suit and build something better....and on and on it goes. Tennessee fans apparently have deluded themselves into thinking that NIL is this ticket to success. Uh, no: Of course we'll get into it whole hog if it becomes standard practice---but it's not going to change the pecking order in the conference. As soon as one school enriches a prospect or two who turn out to be good players who help that school win games, the pot-bellied boosters at other schools will stand around at gatherings, whiskey in hand--and say: "We gotta grow our NIL money." We're not going to outspend/out-bribe bama, georgia, texas and a&M, oklahoma and all the rest in other conferences and get better prospects. Everyone will get and lose their share. We might start beating bama because Saban is no longer in Tuscaloosa, but it won't be because of NIL. And that will be true for everybody, because all the fans/boosters at all the majors at bat-$hit crazy, and nobody's going to gain an advantage.

 

[MemphisVol77]

Coaches can also receive NIL an top of their salaries

I think some college basketball coaches at schools without pre-existing contracts for apparel branding still get to pocket the shoe endorsements.

I know that was pretty common place through the 90's into the 2000's.

 

[turbovol]

On the subject of the NCAA: Their intentions, motivations, thought process et al…maybe at one time it was a noble venture on their part, with the truest of intentions but that recessed well before they lost the grip on football’s broadcasting rights imo. As the money gradually expanded to millions, hundreds of millions and now billions, that beauracracy’s currency became power and control in mostly nitpicky, micromanaged fashion. What’s outed them with their contradictory statement vs actions stems from the moment they latched on to power coaches and gave them free passes for their bag games. You can attempt to characterize it as legit recruiting but every kid on a roster with a Dodge Charger and a mom/dad/family set up in a nice house with a cush job screams otherwise. That’s suddenly not enough and we’re seeing the weaponized response. Why? Simple, and I’ll allow for healthy skepticism but it requires an astronomical leap of faith for me to believe that the NCAA has utilized blinders with Bama, UGA, (sometimes Florida), Ohio State amongst a select few out of simple admiration for the program/HC. SOMETHING made it worth their while and it’s been threatened. That’s why they picked a fight they can’t win…they had no choice. Better Charge of the Light Brigade than your card being declined at Chipotle’s

Most all major programs have been investigated and punished at one time or another over the last 20 years. Bama got hammered 20 years ago. This martyr complex that some here have--that the NCAA just wants to pick on us---is not valid. They investigated FSU for the same issue just before us, I believe. Is it very difficult if not impossible to enforce the rules in major-college football given how absurdly hyper-competitive it is and how crazy and demanding the fans are, which puts the coaches and their staffs under a TON of pressure, which leads to corner-cutting and rule-breaking or bending....you bet it is. The fans are crazy, and they get pissed when investigators scrutinize their program and whine that everybody else is the real cheater...You can bet your ass there'll be infinitely more problems going forward with everybody throwing cash at prospects and their money-grubbing families. You ain't seen nothing yet. Hate on the NCAA if you wish, but who do you think is going to keep a lid on it?

 

[SmokinBob]

NCAA is already moving on from being able to police the students to going after administrations. Anything to keep them relevant I guess.

NCAA Committee on Infractions exploring change to possibly penalize ADs, presidents and others

The committee is discussing levying suspensions on more school officials in infractions cases, including compliance officers, athletic directors, university presidents and chancellors.

sports.yahoo.com

Not just ADs…but Chancellors…and Presidents….methinks the NCAA committee has gotten to big for it’s britches and needs to be laid to rest.

 

[VolArmy74]

I'm always surprised at the number of communists/socialists who follow the Vols when these threads pop up. If you're for the government trying to tell people what they are allowed to earn for their N.I.L., you're a socialist and you want the government to take over businesses.

NIL has zero to do with anything but whatever company x is willing to pay player y. It has nothing to do with salary caps or anything else, even if the players are declared employees and profit sharing comes to pass. That would still exist as a completely separate thing. Do you think the NBA ever told Jordan that he couldn't make over a certain amount from Nike? Did the PGA tell that to Tiger Woods? No, and it would be ridiculous if they tried.

I'm also even more stupefied that people think it's their business what those athletes earn or how on Earth it affects their enjoyment of the team or sport. I don't care if every Vols player makes 50,000 or 500,000 a game. If they are on the field in a Tennessee jersey, I'm a fan.

 

[SmokinBob]

For those not following closely, this is not a court case victory. It is a prior injunction victory, a "judge, what do we do while this case is going through the system, is it okay for us to use NIL freely in the interim?" "Judge: yep, that's fine, TN and VA. NCAA, you don't do anything to get in their way for now."

But the court case itself is still to come. It could take months. Maybe years. And whatever the outcome, it could probably be appealed. Meaning even more months or years.

But for now, Nico is free and clear, UT is free and clear, the whole damn states of Tennessee and Virginia are free and clear while the case proceeds.

Let's assume for a moment that the final court decision will match the tone and direction of this prior injunction (as seems very likely to happen). Namely, that the NCAA can not, in any way, anywhere, ever, touch players and NIL cooperatives.

So what happens then?

Well, the NCAA would like the US Congress to step in and establish law. But Congress are (a) notoriously slow, (b) very risk averse when it comes to actually leading the nation, and (c) badly divided. So they're never going to save the NCAA's day.

The only thing left for the NCAA to do is lead/host a summit of the member institutions (the colleges and conferences) to try to build some wall between the pristine, debutante world of college athletics, and the grubby, hands-on, dirty world of professional sports.

How?

I think the current model can continue to work indefinitely. For decades to come. I mean, the world where NIL collectives are not formally, legally, or financially linked to a university, though in practice the two work together as needed. Student athletes are still student athletes, on campus. Off campus, in their dealings with others, they're free to be professionals, and to be paid for being college stars (their "NIL").

And everyone knows that barrier is about as solid as a chicken wire fence. Nevertheless, the formal separation keeps one thing one thing, and the other thing the other thing.

And they co-exist. As they do right now. In other words, we muddle through, for as far as the eye can see.

That's where I think we're honestly going, at the end of today. Nothing wrong with that.

Go Vols!


p.s. The NCAA isn't going anywhere. They play a LOT of different roles for college sports, recruiting enforcement being only one. If the NCAA didn't exist, we'd have to create one, to do all that other stuff.

This

 

[JCHateSteve]

This case could drag on for years. Rght now, Tennessee and Virginia can tell recruits the NCAA can't mess with your NIL here, no matter how much they want to.

Meanwhile, UGA's president is the chair of the NCAA Board of Governors. The same organization trying to keep you from getting paid.

 

[dobre_shunka]

Coaches can also receive NIL an top of their salaries

Coaches are employees and subject to the terms of their contract which may prevent or limit outside earnings like NIL.

Not sure about current UT coaches, but after Doug Dickey did a mattresses commercial from inside Neyland, UT started to add a clause in future coaching contracts limiting coaches to endorsing only official university partners like First Tennessee, Natural Gas, etc.

 

[ddubb76]

If you’re that worried about the coaches, you should cap their earning potential and tell them it’s for their own good.

Someone or something is worth whatever some else is willing to pay for it. What gives you the right to place limits on that? I’m sure there are several others who agree with your ideology. It’s pretty big in Russia and China.

Major capitalists supporter however I don’t think 17-18 year old kids need that kind of money given to them especially if they are coming from not having any money. Some will do fine and probably help their families out of financial woes and maybe be decently responsible with it. Most will not. A lot will get in trouble, develop unsustainable spending habits once the nil realizes that they are not the product worth being paid(as in disappointments) or some will develop attitudes that they don’t need to develop their craft better. You will have some that will have their parents or custodians taken advantage of them or even abusing them to get them in. It’s a huge mess and I talk to a few nfl and ex nfl players and they are worried about these issues. Again, I don’t want to or be told how much I can make, but these situations will arise and I don’t think most 17-20 year olds are ready for it