State of Tennessee Wins the Injunction

#252
#252
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
An Antitrust Exemption doesn't prevent the courts from determining the players are employees, however.

In fact, a "salary cap" or "compensation limit" certainly implies they would be employees.

That changes everything and while they can unionize and collective bargain for wages, they can also bargain to have the student portion removed, since they've got a job that doesn't have anything to do with Geology or Political Science or History. Does the school make the maintenance employees attend college? I can smell the lawsuit from here.

Past that, are the tennis team, volleyball team, swim team, THAT much different from football and basketball? Aren't they employees too? Shouldn't they be paid also? I can smell that lawsuit from here also.

Yes, an Antitrust Exemption helps the NCAA but Justice Kavanaugh laid it out clearly: the student athlete model is broken.
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Congress can designate by statute that student athletes are not employees. They have that authority. That provision is actually part of some of the bills being proposed. In fact, I can almost guarantee that you will see that designation made as to high school students at some point if things continue in their current direction. The question is, will they politically be able to get that provision passed at the college level? I'm thinking no, given how much money the colleges are making, but that is what the NCAA is playing at, it's their only hope, and if they were able to pull it off, they'd survive and have rule making/enforcing authority again. Once again, I think if they were able to get an exemption there would be conditions like some sort of profit sharing arrangement that would be part of the bill. Otherwise it's not going to pass.
 
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#254
#254
dobre_shunka said:
Coaches are employees and subject to the terms of their contract which may prevent or limit outside earnings like NIL.

Not sure about current UT coaches, but after Doug Dickey did a mattresses commercial from inside Neyland, UT started to add a clause in future coaching contracts limiting coaches to endorsing only official university partners like First Tennessee, Natural Gas, etc.
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So no AFLAC commercials for Heupel?
 
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#255
#255
turbovol said:
A good return? You have no idea what you're getting with a high-school player. There have been studies showing that half the top 100 prospects do not make a major impact in college, for various reasons. And there will be absurd bidding wars for some top prospects--maybe a lot of them--because nobody wants to get left out. There will be escalation---guaranteed. We've got fans of our women's BB program who say it doesn't recruit well because it's not spending enough money on bribes---aka--NIL offers. It's no different than the facilities wars in the SEC: One program upgrades its weight room or locker room, and the other major programs in the conference then HAVE to follow suit and build something better....and on and on it goes. Tennessee fans apparently have deluded themselves into thinking that NIL is this ticket to success. Uh, no: Of course we'll get into it whole hog if it becomes standard practice---but it's not going to change the pecking order in the conference. As soon as one school enriches a prospect or two who turn out to be good players who help that school win games, the pot-bellied boosters at other schools will stand around at gatherings, whiskey in hand--and say: "We gotta grow our NIL money." We're not going to outspend/out-bribe bama, georgia, texas and a&M, oklahoma and all the rest in other conferences and get better prospects. Everyone will get and lose their share. We might start beating bama because Saban is no longer in Tuscaloosa, but it won't be because of NIL. And that will be true for everybody, because all the fans/boosters at all the majors at bat-$hit crazy, and nobody's going to gain an advantage.
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What are you on about dude? TN has plenty of money to compete with ANYONE on ANY day. We are one of the top revenue producers in this conference and have been since its inception. We have multiple filthy rich boosters as well as uhh you know the Haslams? That name ring a bell? Not to mention a total monopoly in our own state. There is no other top school in our state(sorry candy) so we pretty much have carte blanche when it comes to support from our government and policy makers while the gumps have to compete with Auburn within their own state government for support. I mean dude Spyre is the biggest NIL collective in the country 😂. Like what more proof do you need? Now that Jimmy Haslam is legally allowed to contact a recruit and pay him directly the way I see it it’s just about over for anyone not named Tennessee.
 
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#260
#260
turbovol said:
A good return? You have no idea what you're getting with a high-school player. There have been studies showing that half the top 100 prospects do not make a major impact in college, for various reasons. And there will be absurd bidding wars for some top prospects--maybe a lot of them--because nobody wants to get left out. There will be escalation---guaranteed. We've got fans of our women's BB program who say it doesn't recruit well because it's not spending enough money on bribes---aka--NIL offers. It's no different than the facilities wars in the SEC: One program upgrades its weight room or locker room, and the other major programs in the conference then HAVE to follow suit and build something better....and on and on it goes. Tennessee fans apparently have deluded themselves into thinking that NIL is this ticket to success. Uh, no: Of course we'll get into it whole hog if it becomes standard practice---but it's not going to change the pecking order in the conference. As soon as one school enriches a prospect or two who turn out to be good players who help that school win games, the pot-bellied boosters at other schools will stand around at gatherings, whiskey in hand--and say: "We gotta grow our NIL money." We're not going to outspend/out-bribe bama, georgia, texas and a&M, oklahoma and all the rest in other conferences and get better prospects. Everyone will get and lose their share. We might start beating bama because Saban is no longer in Tuscaloosa, but it won't be because of NIL. And that will be true for everybody, because all the fans/boosters at all the majors at bat-$hit crazy, and nobody's going to gain an advantage.
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No, UT fans have not “deluded” themselves into thinking NIL is the “ticket to success”. Whether anybody likes it or not, what we know is that your program will get left behind if you aren’t competitive in that arena. It’s now the price of entry at the adult table. If you don’t play the game, you’ll be sitting with the 5 year olds in the kitchen. If folks don’t adjust to it, well there are a bunch of Division 3 schools looking for fans. It’s NFL Lite and should be taken as such. Just have to wrap your head around the fact that the players will be getting paid above the table and not in McDonalds sacks. As for me, I don’t particularly care for any of this but I’ve come to accept it as the model going forward.
 
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#261
#261
ddubb76 said:
Major capitalists supporter however I don’t think 17-18 year old kids need that kind of money given to them especially if they are coming from not having any money. Some will do fine and probably help their families out of financial woes and maybe be decently responsible with it. Most will not. A lot will get in trouble, develop unsustainable spending habits once the nil realizes that they are not the product worth being paid(as in disappointments) or some will develop attitudes that they don’t need to develop their craft better. You will have some that will have their parents or custodians taken advantage of them or even abusing them to get them in. It’s a huge mess and I talk to a few nfl and ex nfl players and they are worried about these issues. Again, I don’t want to or be told how much I can make, but these situations will arise and I don’t think most 17-20 year olds are ready for it
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It's not a need. It's a right.
 
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#262
#262
unfrozencvmanvol said:
Nothing about this is constitutional, the Supreme Court's decision is based on the federal Antitrust laws, which were were written by Congress and can be changed by Congress.
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Congress isn't going to legislate the Sherman Antitrust Act out of existence. The implications of that would let the late 1890's style robber barons make a comeback in every facet of society. Do you really want Apple, Samsung, and Motorola to be able to collude to drive every other cell phone manufacturer out of the market, then charge $5,000 per phone?

I sure don't.
 
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#263
#263
madbamahater said:
Congress can write new laws, but they will be deemed unconstitutional by the Supreme Court.
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Maybe. A virus-bacterium combo disease infects the government. Where big money is a factor Kickbacks Congress bow to lobbyists who pay them. The Supreme Court is proving to be corrupt, just puppets of the ultra-rich. I hope the UT and CFB wins this thing in the end, but I'd not bet my house on it.
 
#265
#265
turbovol said:
A good return? You have no idea what you're getting with a high-school player. There have been studies showing that half the top 100 prospects do not make a major impact in college, for various reasons. And there will be absurd bidding wars for some top prospects--maybe a lot of them--because nobody wants to get left out. There will be escalation---guaranteed. We've got fans of our women's BB program who say it doesn't recruit well because it's not spending enough money on bribes---aka--NIL offers. It's no different than the facilities wars in the SEC: One program upgrades its weight room or locker room, and the other major programs in the conference then HAVE to follow suit and build something better....and on and on it goes. Tennessee fans apparently have deluded themselves into thinking that NIL is this ticket to success. Uh, no: Of course we'll get into it whole hog if it becomes standard practice---but it's not going to change the pecking order in the conference. As soon as one school enriches a prospect or two who turn out to be good players who help that school win games, the pot-bellied boosters at other schools will stand around at gatherings, whiskey in hand--and say: "We gotta grow our NIL money." We're not going to outspend/out-bribe bama, georgia, texas and a&M, oklahoma and all the rest in other conferences and get better prospects. Everyone will get and lose their share. We might start beating bama because Saban is no longer in Tuscaloosa, but it won't be because of NIL. And that will be true for everybody, because all the fans/boosters at all the majors at bat-$hit crazy, and nobody's going to gain an advantage.
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I’m pretty sure I’m a lot older than you, and I am seeing this from a different perspective, but college football has changed, whether we like it or not.. so we can either embrace it or get left in the dust, which do you prefer?
 
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#266
#266
89 VOLS grad said:
No one said UT shouldn't do all they can and have the set up for all that can give all the money they can to get the best athletes! What some people mean is that the NIL money these teenagers are getting is insane and needs to be capped and controlled better! How would you feel as a coach working 100 hours a week with a weekly check of less than 10% of what a smart mouthed and disrespectful player was making who didn't even do much to benefit the team?
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How do you feel about minor league baseball? It’s very similar to this. Coaches and most players get paid squat, but a handful of stars sign contacts with signing bonuses of hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars. Those hired guns bide their time in the minor leagues getting some experience until they reach their potential and then move on. And of course there are some who don’t turn out to be superstars as well.

College football has always been the minor leagues of the NFL; it‘s now in the process of adjusting its business model from the athletes being “amateur” (i.e. not paid) to professional.

What I’m very curious about is how this NIL ruling affects other sports, like college baseball. In the past many of the best players would be drafted and not consider college at all. Now if a school‘s collective, say LSU’s, wanted to throw first round draft pick money at a couple of prospects, they could actually expect to keep them in college. Since there are fewer schools who are actually competitive in this sport and even fewer that are willing to throw huge bucks at a baseball prospect, that school could dominate the sport at the collegiate level.
 
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#267
#267
Sara Clark said:
Right about now, other states are wishing they had joined in this lawsuit.
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Idk. I think the plan was always if this one came up short another state would launch another suit. You’ll see several states use this now to get the same measures in place. NCAA still has some power in some other states as far as nil but that only holds up until there is a similar outcome.
 
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#269
#269
unfrozencvmanvol said:
Congress can designate by statute that student athletes are not employees. They have that authority. That provision is actually part of some of the bills being proposed. In fact, I can almost guarantee that you will see that designation made as to high school students at some point if things continue in their current direction. The question is, will they politically be able to get that provision passed at the college level? I'm thinking no, given how much money the colleges are making, but that is what the NCAA is playing at, it's their only hope, and if they were able to pull it off, they'd survive and have rule making/enforcing authority again. Once again, I think if they were able to get an exemption there would be conditions like some sort of profit sharing arrangement that would be part of the bill. Otherwise it's not going to pass.
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Congress can, but that's unlikely for college IMO. College Football and College Basketball are multi-million dollar businesses now, not really "student" oriented endeavors.

We all wanted Saturdays on TV and March Madness to be big games, on TV, etc and we got it. We wanted this, as fans and the schools wanted their program to be "high profile" and we got it.

What we didn't get was the emphasis on "this is about education." We want 'balls to the wall' pro level competition. We got the pro competition aspect and feel, stadiums, facilities, and now pro pay for the athletes.

Congress CAN declare college athletes amateurs. Congressmen are used to telling lies.
 
#271
#271
ddubb76 said:
Major capitalists supporter however I don’t think 17-18 year old kids need that kind of money given to them especially if they are coming from not having any money. Some will do fine and probably help their families out of financial woes and maybe be decently responsible with it. Most will not. A lot will get in trouble, develop unsustainable spending habits once the nil realizes that they are not the product worth being paid(as in disappointments) or some will develop attitudes that they don’t need to develop their craft better. You will have some that will have their parents or custodians taken advantage of them or even abusing them to get them in. It’s a huge mess and I talk to a few nfl and ex nfl players and they are worried about these issues. Again, I don’t want to or be told how much I can make, but these situations will arise and I don’t think most 17-20 year olds are ready for it
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They're not getting seedy stacks of bills from the back of a van! They're entering commercial business agreements brokered by professionals in a collective. They don't meet the terms and they can lose an opportunity...which we used to call life lessons. The idea of poor and confused kids from a Boy's Club getting herded into a nefarious club is a little disingenuous. Working at a sports medicine facility, I'm seeing parents bring their elementary kids in to get trained and developed. You become a FBS level prospect these days and there's been an investment from parents to gurus. We're talking BRAND from middle school on. More and more states are signing on where they cash in by high school...so a few thousand dollars in an account will be old hat by the time a local Krystal's films their first spot. Nothing guarantees a cartoon villain doesn't make a play for a naive talent, but they out themselves in short order and the response is brutal. A self-policing occurs by osmosis. We saw Gervon Dexter sign a bad deal with one outfit that attempted to cut into his NFL earnings. That got squashed, because it was fraudulent. The Jaden Rashada incident fell on it's own sword when a Gators collective fell on it's own sword by overpromising and skipping town. Somehow I still believe.he's getting more than books and a meal card at Arizona State. Money finds a way and the world goes on.
 
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#272
#272
Voltopia said:
The NCAA's greed? I think you're confusing the NCAA with the schools. The NCAA wasn't the one negotiating billion dollar TV contracts and paying coaches 10 million dollars a year.

I'm glad that Tennessee didn't let the NCAA push them around, but saying they're the ones wholly responsible is -- well, it's a neat little sleight of hand, I'll give it that.
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What I think oftentimes is overlooked is the NCAA is an organization created and run by the schools. In theory it is an attempt to self govern in order to have a level playing field for all members and ensure proper treatment of the student athletes. Unfortunately, it’s failed to deliver on its mission and there’s going to be a volcanic shift in the administration of college athletics.
 
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#273
#273
SGidds said:
How do you feel about minor league baseball? It’s very similar to this. Coaches and most players get paid squat, but a handful of stars sign contacts with signing bonuses of hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars. Those hired guns bide their time in the minor leagues getting some experience until they reach their potential and then move on. And of course there are some who don’t turn out to be superstars as well.

College football has always been the minor leagues of the NFL; it‘s now in the process of adjusting its business model from the athletes being “amateur” (i.e. not paid) to professional.

What I’m very curious about is how this NIL ruling affects other sports, like college baseball. In the past many of the best players would be drafted and not consider college at all. Now if a school‘s collective, say LSU’s, wanted to throw first round draft pick money at a couple of prospects, they could actually expect to keep them in college. Since there are fewer schools who are actually competitive in this sport and even fewer that are willing to throw huge bucks at a baseball prospect, that school could dominate the sport at the collegiate level.
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Universites in big conference have something startup minor leagues reminiscent of old sandlots can never obtain...a STAGE. Built in audience, venue, atmosphere and fan loyalty. You can't manufacture that...many have tried. It's able to hold up under the auspice of amateurism, and if you want to go start a competitor? Good luck! Colleges aren't going away. Long time Mississippi State baseball fans arent't going to flock to the Texas League type a couple of counties over. The local sports performance center is never going to stage women's gymnastics competition against similar facilities from all over the world. They implode on first attempt. Errybody out of the fallout shelter!
 
#274
#274
unfrozencvmanvol said:
Congress can designate by statute that student athletes are not employees. They have that authority. That provision is actually part of some of the bills being proposed. In fact, I can almost guarantee that you will see that designation made as to high school students at some point if things continue in their current direction. The question is, will they politically be able to get that provision passed at the college level? I'm thinking no, given how much money the colleges are making, but that is what the NCAA is playing at, it's their only hope, and if they were able to pull it off, they'd survive and have rule making/enforcing authority again. Once again, I think if they were able to get an exemption there would be conditions like some sort of profit sharing arrangement that would be part of the bill. Otherwise it's not going to pass.
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Sorry to reply twice, but PLEASE let's not invite Congress further into our High Schools. I probably don't want my grandkids educated like kids from NYC in school. There's nothing wrong with that in America, as long as both views are Constitutional.

High School football in some TX schools have stadiums bigger than colleges and a ton of money flowing around. High school football in some areas of the country is guys wearing their jersey on Friday and a lame pep rally before the last class.

Congress SUCKS at governing, but Congress REALLY SUCKS at governing local issues like High School.

(I'm SayYouWant..... and I approved this message.)
 
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