Student Loan Forgiveness, Free College

#101
#101
Velo Vol said:
How does it goose demand, other than requiring degrees for government jobs?
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it hides the cost.

same way car loans (especially 84 month loans) hide the cost of buying a car and increase the demand for cars. increased demand = upward pressure on prices.
 
#102
#102
volinbham said:
it hides the cost.

same way car loans (especially 84 month loans) hide the cost of buying a car and increase the demand for cars. increased demand = upward pressure on prices.
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OK, I was thinking job market demand for degreed candidates, not enrollment demand.
 
#103
#103
n_huffhines said:
Suggestions for reducing the cost of education:

Gut administration
Gut athletic departments (sports get no $ from the university/taxes and profitable sports should help to fund the universities)
No more new buildings/classrooms to accommodate growth (handle the influx with online classes)
Put limits on textbook expenses
Increase professor load through more online courses
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Take away sports and you’d have a riot on your hands. The SJW crowd would call that racist faster than you can blink.
 
#104
#104
Let’s be honest. Student loan debt forgiveness will simply burden the taxpayer (i.e. wealth distribution in yet another form), allowing people to expunge one debt only to go out and load up on more debt elsewhere. Sorry, we are so trying to trick f*** Society, the economy....and people just keep blindly signing up for more. Politician worship, sad.
 
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#105
#105
lawgator1 said:
I'd try to achieve the same economy-spurring growth in a slightly different way.

First, rather than just forgive government student loans, I'd let people enroll in a repayment plan with no interest. As long as they did not default, they could pay off with no interest. Would be much less expensive and would not require nearly as much funding through higher taxes.

Second, I'd increase the tax on the wealthiest by 1 to 5 %, structured similarly.

Third, I'd reduce middle class taxes by a 70 % of amount we generated by the increased taxes on the wealthiest, using the other 30 % to reduce the national debt.
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in other words... punish success.
 
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#106
#106
volinbham said:
But it's not $40K - the link you posted is $28K and change and that includes room and board. The degree itself is under $18K.

It's like saying a $20K car is really $30K because I need food and a place to live!
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How about accrued interest?
 
#109
#109
Velo Vol said:
It depends.

The real issue I see here is the cost of college. That's what's driving up debt. Proposals like the one above are treating the symptoms and not the disease.

textbook-prices-630x900.jpg
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Wow, the two things Barry got the government into. Color me astounded.
 
#110
#110
Velo Vol said:
How does it goose demand, other than requiring degrees for government jobs?
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It gooses demand (college enrollment demand) by guaranteeing the loan, combined with its long-running PR campaign of essentially saying you're screwed if you don't get a college degree.
 
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#111
#111
Velo Vol said:
Competition cutting which way? Competition to be higher on the school rankings?

If there was competition on the tuition front, prices wouldn't be double+ the inflation rate.
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The government guarantee makes the loans essentially risk-free and more likely to be offered. The increased liquidity brings more people into the student loan market, who take out the loans to go to college. The larger student pool gets the colleges more aggressive in trying to attract students, leading them to build shiny buildings all over campus, bloat the administration, etc. That makes tuition more expensive, and the increased cost is covered by borrowing even more money, and the cycle starts again.

The colleges and the lenders are basically being offered risk-free money because of the guarantee. It isn't "competition" in the normal sense you'd think of - one where numerous providers enter the market, prices go down as quality goes up, etc. It's artificial competition and phony demand, because the government, by decree, is coming into the market and removing all the risk in the system. Classic moral hazard.

Same thing happened during the housing bubble.
 
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#114
#114
Forgiving loans is cheaper than trying to collect the money. We spend four dollars for every dollar that is collected.
 
#116
#116
Rishvol said:
Community college is free in multiple states. It's just getting a certificate is frowned upon in the circles of "higher thinking"
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Many look at community college as something bad. Angela Duckworth author of the book Grit, which is a pretty good read, mentioned a study that said those that graduated with a community college associates degree were typically more successful in business and life. The theory was that they were typically harder workers because they had a job while going to school and had to manage life, on the other hand many that went to a 4 year college accrued high amounts of student loans and partied during their 18-22 year old years without having a job. Most of the 4 year college were fully funded by their parents while in college.
 
#117
#117
itsme said:
Many look at community college as something bad. Angela Duckworth author of the book Grit, which is a pretty good read, mentioned a study that said those that graduated with a community college associates degree were typically more successful in business and life. The theory was that they were typically harder workers because they had a job while going to school and had to manage life, on the other hand many that went to a 4 year college accrued high amounts of student loans and partied during their 18-22 year old years without having a job. Most of the 4 year college were fully funded by their parents while in college.
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Community College is absolutely the best option for anyone going into higher education. It is practically the same content as the first two years of an university.
 
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#119
#119
itsme said:
Many look at community college as something bad. Angela Duckworth author of the book Grit, which is a pretty good read, mentioned a study that said those that graduated with a community college associates degree were typically more successful in business and life. The theory was that they were typically harder workers because they had a job while going to school and had to manage life, on the other hand many that went to a 4 year college accrued high amounts of student loans and partied during their 18-22 year old years without having a job. Most of the 4 year college were fully funded by their parents while in college.
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At least in the United States, there's a stigma associated with community college, perhaps even more so than the one associated with trade/technical schools. It needs to go away.

They are both by-products of the PR campaign waged by the government, high school guidance counselors, parents, society at-large, etc. that if you don't graduate from a 4-year university in something, you're going to be a failure.
 
#123
#123
BigOrangeTrain said:
And thats just craziness imo.
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Many of them are very fond of the Honore de Balzac quote "Behind every fortune there is a crime." I think that provides a pretty good insight into their worldview. A crime is behind not just a few, or some fortunes...it's behind every fortune.

I think the attitude they have comes from several different things - there's the "you didn't build that" crowd @SpaceCoastVol mentioned, which actually was taken out of context by the GOP but still shines a light into how Obama and his constituency thought about the relationship between private enterprise and government (i.e., government is the straw that stirs the drink, not private enterprise). If nobody made any money, where would the government get its money?

There's the "privilege" crowd, which will always explain someone's wealth in terms of they had access to things others didn't have access to.

There's the "zero sum game" crowd, which thinks that every dollar of wealth a rich person has came at the expense of a poor person.

And finally I think some just fall into the pure envy crowd. This crowd isn't upset that some people are that poor. They're upset because some people are that rich. Notice how Bernie, Pocahontas, Chiquita Khrushchev, etc. all talk about income inequality way more often than they talk about poverty. I want poor people to be less poor and raise their standard of living. I really don't give a sh it how much a hedge fund manager makes, or the gap between the lowest earners and the highest. You don't want the wealthy to control the political process? Great, I don't either. The only way to do that is make the government smaller so they have less power to sell. But they don't want to do that, because it doesn't fit their agenda.
 
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