Supreme Court kills affirmative action in university admissions

[85SugarVol]

Do you believe it would be morally right for a private company to do it?

I guess that would depend on whether you believe private, for profit entities have a moral obligation. I don’t tend to think they do.

Was it morally right to downgrade Asian applicants?

 

[AM64]

I guess that would depend on whether you believe private, for profit entities have a moral obligation. I don’t tend to think they do.

Was it morally right to downgrade Asian applicants?

If you believe that treating people morally is treating everyone with the same dignity and respect ... and that seems to reasonably fit the definition, then discrimination for any reason would seem immoral. Having said that, being charitable to those in need is to be human, but it doesn't mean turning away a better qualified person.

 

[lawgator1]

I guess that would depend on whether you believe private, for profit entities have a moral obligation. I don’t tend to think they do.

Was it morally right to downgrade Asian applicants?

Yeah, but how long until the GOP annoints Asian students as trying to take over the country through institutions like Ivy League Schools? 'bout time for a new boogeyman for you guys.

 

[C-south]

Yeah, but how long until the GOP annoints Asian students as trying to take over the country through institutions like Ivy League Schools? 'bout time for a new boogeyman for you guys.

 

[85SugarVol]

Yeah, but how long until the GOP annoints Asian students as trying to take over the country through institutions like Ivy League Schools? 'bout time for a new boogeyman for you guys.

I don’t know what this is supposed to mean? Is this you still “not defending it”?

I still hold no committable offers from Republicans or the GOP.

 

[85SugarVol]

The Atlantic -
The Hypocrisy of Mandatory Diversity Statements

Can a publicly funded school mandate a diversity statement?

 

[luthervol]

I guess that would depend on whether you believe private, for profit entities have a moral obligation. I don’t tend to think they do.

Was it morally right to downgrade Asian applicants?

I never said they had a moral obligation. I asked if it was moral for a private business owner.

 

[W.TN.Orange Blood]

Yeah, but how long until the GOP annoints Asian students as trying to take over the country through institutions like Ivy League Schools? 'bout time for a new boogeyman for you guys.

First time hearing this garbage. Since when does GOP annoints anyone? You trying to use Asian Americans as an insult to all people of america now? Is that the new thing w/the loony left?

 

[85SugarVol]

I never said they had a moral obligation. I asked if it was moral for a private business owner.

Why the song and dance here?

 

[luthervol]

Why the song and dance here?

I could ask you the same.
But it's because I do not assign as much relevance to the line between public and private as many in the PF do.

 

[85SugarVol]

I could ask you the same.
But it's because I do not assign as much relevance to the line between public and private as many in the PF do.

You brought morality into this though. Not me.

You said there were those that felt a “moral obligation” to elevate black applicants.
I simply asked if it was moral to downgrade Asian applicants.

 

[McDad]

You brought morality into this though. Not me.

You said there were those that felt a “moral obligation” to elevate black applicants.
I simply asked if it was moral to downgrade Asian applicants.

You can do this for a week and a half and end up no further along in understanding, agreement, or consistency.

 

[luthervol]

You brought morality into this though. Not me.

You said there were those that felt a “moral obligation” to elevate black applicants.
I simply asked if it was moral to downgrade Asian applicants.

This is actually the way the conversation went.

I believe there will always be those who feel the moral obligation to right injustices.

I'm comfortable going there.

I believe there will also always be those willing to take every possible advantage of injustices.

Morality and Justice have nothing to do with it.

Private entities (like the ones engaging in your hiring and promotion) should be able to choose who they do business with.
Glad we can agree there.

Let me ask you a personal question -
You believe it morally right to elevate Black applicants. Was it morally right to downgrade Asian applicants?

Do you believe it would be morally right for a private company to do it?

And I don't think you will find where I ever said it was morally right to elevate black applicants. That was simply a conclusion you jumped to.

 

[luthervol]

You can do this for a week and a half and end up no further along in understanding, agreement, or consistency.

That's because he is already making inaccurate accusations.

 

[85SugarVol]

This is actually the way the conversation went.





And I don't think you will find where I ever said it was morally right to elevate black applicants. That was simply a conclusion you jumped to.

Then my apologies. What did you actually mean by “moral obligation to right injustice” in the AA thread about elevating black applicants?

You meant something different?

 

[n_huffhines]

Had they done this 5 years ago my son might have applied to MIT but he’d been brainwashed by his teachers to believe white privilege would work against him. And he was valid victorian at his HS. His Hispanic friend however did apply and now has an EE degree from MIT.

Jesus, dude

 

[n_huffhines]

If you believe that treating people morally is treating everyone with the same dignity and respect ... and that seems to reasonably fit the definition, then discrimination for any reason would seem immoral. Having said that, being charitable to those in need is to be human, but it doesn't mean turning away a better qualified person.

I am pretty ambivalent to the SCOTUS ruling, but it's fair to point out there is more to admissions/hiring than just finding the most qualified (on paper, which is entirely flawed) students/employees. An obvious and totally acceptable example would be Stanford giving a full-ride scholarship to a football player who falls into the bottom 1 percentile of students. If you want the best visual artists, you're probably going to have to let in some kids that didn't do so well in math.

And as somebody who went to a university where the large majority of students were white, from the same region of the country, and of the same religion, a lack of diversity really sucks and it's boring. I feel the same way about places where I've worked. Diversity is a good value. It's attractive to other top students and top professors who you might be trying to attract to your university. I know it's super hard for BYU to recruit black football players when less than 1% of the school is black.

And now we're back to just the "most qualified" and the most favored getting in. Try as you might, it's never going to be solely based on merit, and even if it were, the measurements of merit are entirely flawed.

JFK's Harvard admission essay:

 

[85SugarVol]

I do not assign as much relevance to the line between public and private as many in the PF do.

I wanted to ask about this too.

We have private Christian schools. I don’t know your personal feelings about those.

We do not have public Christian schools. Would you have any personal feelings about those? I’m not in favor of them.

 

[C-south]

I am pretty ambivalent to the SCOTUS ruling, but it's fair to point out there is more to admissions/hiring than just finding the most qualified (on paper, which is entirely flawed) students/employees. An obvious and totally acceptable example would be Stanford giving a full-ride scholarship to a football player who falls into the bottom 1 percentile of students. If you want the best visual artists, you're probably going to have to let in some kids that didn't do so well in math.

And as somebody who went to a university where the large majority of students were white, from the same region of the country, and of the same religion, a lack of diversity really sucks and it's boring. I feel the same way about places where I've worked. Diversity is a good value. It's attractive to other top students and top professors who you might be trying to attract to your university. I know it's super hard for BYU to recruit black football players when less than 1% of the school is black.

And now we're back to just the most qualified and the most favored getting in. Try as you might, it's never going to be solely based on merit, and even if it were, the measurements of merit are entirely flawed.

JFK's Harvard admission essay:

View attachment 560775

Your white guilt is overwhelming.

 

[CobbVol]

Yeah, but how long until the GOP annoints Asian students as trying to take over the country through institutions like Ivy League Schools? 'bout time for a new boogeyman for you guys.

Here is your guy:

 

[luthervol]

I wanted to ask about this too.

We have private Christian schools. I don’t know your personal feelings about those.

We do not have public Christian schools. Would you have any personal feelings about those? I’m not in favor of them.

I obviously think public schools should have no religious affiliations.
I view private Christian schools the same as private Jewish schools, Muslim schools, Hindu schools etc.....(talk about indoctrination) ... not a big fan in general.
I think a Religions of the World private school might be great.....have all religions represented and learn about them all.

 

[luthervol]

Then my apologies. What did you actually mean by “moral obligation to right injustice” in the AA thread about elevating black applicants?

You meant something different?

I was just speaking in generalities. It's human nature for many to see a perceived injustice and feel morally obligated to address it.

If people feel the college application and acceptance process is unjust, many will feel a moral obligation to address it.

When Asians felt the process was unjust, they rightfully felt the need to address it.

If people view Harvard's legacy admissions as unjust, they will eventually adress it.

Many universities give preference to legacies. Is it right to elevate applicants based on where their parents attended school?

 

[AM64]

I am pretty ambivalent to the SCOTUS ruling, but it's fair to point out there is more to admissions/hiring than just finding the most qualified (on paper, which is entirely flawed) students/employees. An obvious and totally acceptable example would be Stanford giving a full-ride scholarship to a football player who falls into the bottom 1 percentile of students. If you want the best visual artists, you're probably going to have to let in some kids that didn't do so well in math.

And as somebody who went to a university where the large majority of students were white, from the same region of the country, and of the same religion, a lack of diversity really sucks and it's boring. I feel the same way about places where I've worked. Diversity is a good value. It's attractive to other top students and top professors who you might be trying to attract to your university. I know it's super hard for BYU to recruit black football players when less than 1% of the school is black.

And now we're back to just the most qualified and the most favored getting in. Try as you might, it's never going to be solely based on merit, and even if it were, the measurements of merit are entirely flawed.

JFK's Harvard admission essay:

View attachment 560775

We definitely agree on that point. Admission criteria to a school should very much reflect the applicant's abilities in the intended area of study - not much reason to evaluate artistic talent in a prospective engineer or to evaluate engineering talent in applicants with other plans in mind. I'm very much a college football fan, but in all honesty I still think any openings to athletes should be based on academic rather than athletic potential. In the instance you gave above, to me it is wrong for a school to award scholarships (even athletic scholarships) to students with little academic potential, or to babysit them until they graduate or leave for other reasons. You might suppose students on athletic scholarships are few enough in number they don't take positions away from real students ... the monetary side of athletic scholarships, facilities, and especially coaching costs is another matter for most colleges and universities though.

I can't say I'm impressed with JFK's admission essay. Sounds a lot like butter them up and then remind them that his father also has a lot to offer ... but without being so crass as to say so.

 

[EasternVol]

Looks like the black elite he/she is still upset & trying to make a point falling on deaf ears.

Didn't anyone ever tell you to not believe everything you read?

 

[EasternVol]

Yeah, but how long until the GOP annoints Asian students as trying to take over the country through institutions like Ivy League Schools? 'bout time for a new boogeyman for you guys.

The GOP courts the minorities that will benefit from the ruling so no, at least not today. If the party continues its MAGA degeneration though, maybe eventually.