Sweeping Sexual Assault Suit Filed Against UT

[drylo]

https://www.seccountry.com/tennesse...xpect-more-scrutiny-in-wake-of-baylor-debacle

I clicked the link and regret it. I will summarize for others.

Some hack at SECCountry hopes that the high-horse media mob will lock in on Butch Jones as its next victim. He is trying to create a public hysteria that will lead to Butch getting fired.

Dumb.

 

[butchna]

Actually, pretty sure Briles didn't play any of the guys after they were charged. And pretty sure any of the guys that did play were either cleared or the matter had just been dropped.

Pretty sure you're wrong...otherwise Briles would still be the coach. Whole crux of his dismissal was misconduct. If he handled things right as you posit, what would constitute the "misconduct"?

 

[drylo]

Pretty sure you're wrong...otherwise Briles would still be the coach. Whole crux of his dismissal was misconduct. If he handled things right as you posit, what would constitute the "misconduct"?

I don't really disagree with you. But I'm pretty sure the facts are as I said. Feel free to correct me (with actual facts, though--not just conjecture).

Sam U never played a down at Baylor. Tevin Elliott was suspended upon being charged (if not before). Those are the two that have been convicted of something.

Oakman is currently facing charges for an incident that occurred while he was preparing for the draft.

Nobody else was ever charged, unless I'm mistaken.

Admittedly, Butch may have been even quicker to suspend because (and I'm more familiar with the UT facts) Butch has suspended upon any accusation (not just charges, etc.) in every case I'm aware of.

 

[volfan102455]

Actually, pretty sure Briles didn't play any of the guys after they were charged. And pretty sure any of the guys that did play were either cleared or the matter had just been dropped.

The key difference is Briles waited until "after they were charged". Being accused does not = being officially charged with a crime. At Tennessee the players stopped playing when "accused" and did not play until the situation was settled.

Interestingly enough that is what some on here have said that Coach Jones should have done - let the players continue to play with the team until charged.

If you read the report, at Baylor this extends well beyond the University and football staff as the report indicates that even members of the police department looked the other way.

And quite honestly there are other schools and situations that folks should be pointing their fingers at other than Tennessee - but Tennessee is the one still in the news - the incidents at Vandy and FSU are old news and both those coaches are still employed.

 

[ReaderVol]

Dumbo Fisher on the other hand kept Winston on the team. iirc Saban hasn't kicked his prize OT off the team yet either (I know it's not a sex crime but gun and drugs aren't small taters).

 

[ajvol01]

Actually, pretty sure Briles didn't play any of the guys after they were charged. And pretty sure any of the guys that did play were either cleared or the matter had just been dropped.

I understood Baylor players missed zero playing time.

As in zero disciplinary action.

 

[rtb1983]

3 months til football

What is this football you speak of?

 

[drylo]

I understood Baylor players missed zero playing time.

As in zero disciplinary action.

I laid the facts out above. Your statement isn't exactly true (though I think some players did not miss time after they were alleged to be involved in some kind of altercation/incident that didn't lead to any criminal charges).

 

[ajvol01]

I laid the facts out above. Your statement isn't exactly true (though I think some players did not miss time after they were alleged to be involved in some kind of altercation/incident that didn't lead to any criminal charges).

What disciplinary actions were taken?

What did I say that was untrue?

 

[KBVol]

Jones suspended every player with an accusation against him. Briles not only let his guys with accusations against them play. But accusers and accusers' families were discouraged from pursuing action/charges. There is no comparison.

This is spot on Kristy.

I'll just add that it's annoying as hell now to hear some people, including those in the media who ought to know better, who are very familiar with the two cases and the stark differences between them as you so well defined them, now ask questions about ours as if the two cases are practically one in the same. What the hell is wrong with people?

 

[KBVol]

This sums it up pretty well....


The problem with comparing Tennessee and Baylor’s allegations — Swain Event

 

[thetennlegend]

The tennessee and baylor stuff isnt even similar. It makes me sick that any ignorant hack can go blog on the internet. How about compare fsu to baylor and any other college hit with a lawsuit of this nature. Nope just tennessee. People have no clue they just want to tweet shi$.

 

[Remy]

This sums it up pretty well....


The problem with comparing Tennessee and Baylor’s allegations — Swain Event

My only issue is concluding Jones should be fired were it proved he called Bowles a traitor. Lots of things in the heat of the moment can be said, I personally could not cosign CBJ being terminated for that without a lot more detail of the verbal back and forth which took place.

 

[Volsfaninva917]

I laid the facts out above. Your statement isn't exactly true (though I think some players did not miss time after they were alleged to be involved in some kind of altercation/incident that didn't lead to any criminal charges).

Quit trolling. Shielded players from punishment, just did a little Google search. Butch has suspended every player with accusations immediately until said player is cleared. Briles much like Jimbo Fisher allows his players to play until hauled off in cuffs.

Art Briles built Baylor brash, bold, leaves tarnished legacy | College Football



But the program had become insulated to a fault, according to the investigation by the Pepper Hamilton law firm. It said football coaches hindered investigations while dealing on their own with accusers and parents of accusers, and failed to provide information to university officials. Football coaches at Baylor doled out insufficient discipline and shielded players from the punishments that would have been handed out to other students, the report said.

 

[doctorchoice]

This sums it up pretty well....


The problem with comparing Tennessee and Baylor’s allegations — Swain Event

What investigation is Seth Stokes talking about here? is it simply an internal review and when is it expected to be completed?

 

[Volsfaninva917]

What investigation is Seth Stokes talking about here? is it simply an internal review and when is it expected to be completed?

There is a federal investigation, just like at 200 some other schools. Its really nothing to worry over.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/schools-investigation-sexual-assault_us_55b19b43e4b0074ba5a40b77

 

[AM64]

There is a federal investigation, just like at 200 some other schools. Its really nothing to worry over.

124 Colleges, 40 School Districts Under Investigation For Handling Of Sexual Assault

This is worth a look:

https://public.tableau.com/profile/publish/CampusCrimeLargeColleges/Dashboard1#!/publish-confirm

It's for 2011 through 2013, but you can get the general idea. UT has an average violent crime rate of 0.33 - well down the list. A couple of high fliers for comparison: UC Berkley was 1.56, and Harvard was 1.18. That federal investigation has a lot more fertile ground to cover than at UT.

It is frustrating that a boneheaded wannabe writer can put this kind of drivel out for distribution - UT did handle issues while Baylor apparently did it's best to cover them up. KPD practices (implying collusion) were called into question regarding notice to Butch, but the same was never mentioned with regard to Saban's recent late night phone call. Without the Tennessean stirring the pot the UT case would be as forgotten in the media as the Vanderbilt rapes - the ones that did actually happen - with at least one guilty verdict to date.

 

[BaldBiker]

I laid the facts out above. Your statement isn't exactly true (though I think some players did not miss time after they were alleged to be involved in some kind of altercation/incident that didn't lead to any criminal charges).

I've scrolled back and forth through this thread and have still yet to come across these facts you say you laid out. So far all I can see is you saying something and calling it fact.....and then telling others to prove your facts wrong.

YOU HAVEN'T GIVEN ANY FACTS!!!

If I have somehow missed these allusive facts I apologize. Please re-post them with the links that verify what you are saying, because everything I'm reading says otherwise.

:hi:

 

[drylo]

I've scrolled back and forth through this thread and have still yet to come across these facts you say you laid out. So far all I can see is you saying something and calling it fact.....and then telling others to prove your facts wrong.

YOU HAVEN'T GIVEN ANY FACTS!!!

If I have somehow missed these allusive facts I apologize. Please re-post them with the links that verify what you are saying, because everything I'm reading says otherwise.

:hi:

*elusive

I'm on mobile and frankly don't care enough to go dig up a bunch of links. The facts are that nobody at Baylor played after being charged. I'm not clear on exactly what happened with guys that weren't charged (or before they were charged). Go look it up if you want to. Or just call me a troll like somebody else did. Either way, doesn't bother me.

 

[Volsfaninva917]

*elusive

I'm on mobile and frankly don't care enough to go dig up a bunch of links. The facts are that nobody at Baylor played after being charged. I'm not clear on exactly what happened with guys that weren't charged (or before they were charged). Go look it up if you want to. Or just call me a troll like somebody else did. Either way, doesn't bother me.

They went the FSU route, let them play until they're behind bars. They also got in the way to keep it from becoming a criminal investigation. In every account CBJ suspended the player in question and allowed the KPD to work it out. Those are all facts, quit stirring the pot.

 

[UT-Rex]

*elusive

I'm on mobile and frankly don't care enough to go dig up a bunch of links. The facts are that nobody at Baylor played after being charged. I'm not clear on exactly what happened with guys that weren't charged (or before they were charged). Go look it up if you want to. Or just call me a troll like somebody else did. Either way, doesn't bother me.

Butch Jones investigated and suspended players quickly (as the Tennenessean has proved, Jones was quickly making phone calls the following morning of one case / calling players + player parents/uncles, and those 2 players were immediately suspended within the week as I recall / what, in Nov 2014 was it ?).

Compare that, to the near 18-months that ESPN says Art Briles delayed his investigation:

"In 2013, the Waco Police Department wrote in a police report that it had informed Baylor officials about an off-campus incident involving former All-Big 12 tight end Tre'Von Armstead and former practice squad player Myke Chatman. Waco police also told the alleged victim they had contacted Baylor, but according to documents and interviews conducted by Outside the Lines, Baylor didn't begin looking into the allegations until Sept. 11, 2015.

Baylor kicked Armstead off its football team last fall (fall of 2015?) and expelled him from school in February (of 2016?) over the allegations, documents obtained by Outside the Lines show."

We're comparing disciplinary actions of Head Coaches (not alleged incidents, or final determinations of guilt by courts or other disciplinary boards) -- other info is still pending, but it's pretty clear Coach Jones took action against the accused players and Art Briles didn't (or, as is claimed, Art Briles took action to quiet the accusers). As far as I know, Butch Jones/his staff never contacted the accusers, only the players and the players' families.

Correct me if I'm mistaken.

 

[drylo]

They also got in the way to keep it from becoming a criminal investigation.

This makes no sense. The coaches can't prevent a police investigation. If it was reported to police, police investigated; if it wasn't, they didn't. That simple. Nothing to do with the coaches.

They went the FSU route, let them play until they're behind bars.

Not exactly, and not always. Charged =/= "behind bars." And some were suspended or booted even though they were never charged.

 

[butchna]

Butch Jones investigated and suspended players quickly (as the Tennenessean has proved, Jones was quickly making phone calls the following morning of one case / calling players + player parents/uncles, and those 2 players were immediately suspended within the week as I recall / what, in Nov 2014 was it ?).

Compare that, to the near 18-months that ESPN says Art Briles delayed his investigation:

"In 2013, the Waco Police Department wrote in a police report that it had informed Baylor officials about an off-campus incident involving former All-Big 12 tight end Tre'Von Armstead and former practice squad player Myke Chatman. Waco police also told the alleged victim they had contacted Baylor, but according to documents and interviews conducted by Outside the Lines, Baylor didn't begin looking into the allegations until Sept. 11, 2015.

Baylor kicked Armstead off its football team last fall (fall of 2015?) and expelled him from school in February (of 2016?) over the allegations, documents obtained by Outside the Lines show."

We're comparing disciplinary actions of Head Coaches (not alleged incidents, or final determinations of guilt by courts or other disciplinary boards) -- other info is still pending, but it's pretty clear Coach Jones took action against the accused players and Art Briles didn't (or, as is claimed, Art Briles took action to quiet the accusers). As far as I know, Butch Jones/his staff never contacted the accusers, only the players and the players' families.

Correct me if I'm mistaken.

Reads suspiciously like "facts".

 

[Volsfaninva917]

This makes no sense. The coaches can't prevent a police investigation. If it was reported to police, police investigated; if it wasn't, they didn't. That simple. Nothing to do with the coaches.



Not exactly, and not always. Charged =/= "behind bars." And some were suspended or booted even though they were never charged.

Actually both are accusations as noted in the article. You have yet to provide anything to support what you are presenting as fact in your attempt to tip toe around comparing the baylor and ut situation.

 

[ButchPlz]

Anyone comparing the Tennessee and Baylor situations is a complete bonehead.