Taiwan: We have to bomb TSMC in order to save it

#27
#27
scooty_vol said:
China would just rebuild it. They don't have the red tape that America has. They need something built, they build it. Damn that speckled owl.
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Also, we act like there is no transfer of information going on between Taiwan and the mainland. Taiwanese go back and forth to China all the time... which is to be expected since they are the same country/One China.

So you think that if the United States has Taiwanese helping us try to build our chip manufacturing that the Chinese are not doing the same right now?

Plus, bombing TSMC wouldn't just impact China. It would impact the world. And the people advocating for this nonsense are fully aware of this.

Taiwan’s dominance of the chip industry makes it more important

Taiwan produces over 60% of the world’s semiconductors and over 90% of the most advanced ones. Most are manufactured by a single company, Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Corporation (TSMC). Until now, the most advanced have been made only in Taiwan.
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#30
#30
LouderVol said:
if its so easy for them why haven't they done this themselves on the mainland?

China doesn't have the technology. Heck I think a computer virus that wiped out all of the tech's software and memory would be just as good as a bomb. Leave them the hardware and let them scratch their heads.
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That is a good point, I've always wondered if China has the technology to create semiconductors. I always thought they wouldn't be that hard to copy semiconductors, would it?
 
#34
#34
scooty_vol said:
That is a good point, I've always wondered if China has the technology to create semiconductors. I always thought they wouldn't be that hard to copy semiconductors, would it?
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they have the tech to make some. the issue is to make computers as powerful as they are today you have to make the chips smaller. China, and most of the world, has the tech to make them to a certain size, but not smaller. There are a number of nations who can make smaller than what China can, but Taiwan and either the Netherlands or Belgium, are the only ones who can make the best.

The European country was the one who invented the tech for the current best semiconductors, but they didn't have the manufacturing for it. Taiwan did. They only gave them the tech in a limited way to keep the IP from falling into the wrong hands. Whichever European country created the tech is ramping up their manufacturing, but they have a long way to go. That's why Taiwan makes 90% of the best as quoted elsewhere.

The US has been trying to get the tech too, our military, but the european country is refusing to sell. so we are now actually paying them/giving tax breaks or something, as long as they are able to maintain the stranglehold on the tech, and also don't sell it to anyone else. so if we can't buy it, we are making sure no one else can buy the tech to make it. The chips themselves we don't have that policy of, just the manufacturing. Although I have read we are back dooring the actual chips themselves too. My understanding is we are offering above asking price for far more chips than they can produce. Basically we are trying to strangle the ensure they only sell to us. This hasn't been 100% effective, but my understanding is that we are getting more of the chips than we otherwise would. I think we were even asking straight up how many do we have to buy for you to make this in America, and we will pay it. and I was hearing some stupid numbers, starting with a "T"

I very much doubt any Taiwanese citizen has access to anything important enough to recreate the tech in China.

this is part of the reason the Chinese are looking into quantum computing so much, as that helps "reset" the miniaturization issue. you still need powerful semiconductors, but you can make it work with what the Chinese have.
 
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#37
#37
hog88 said:
If this article does anything it points to our weakness. Maybe instead of wasting money on useless green energy projects we invest in our own super high tech chip plants here?
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That’s why I stated how much do politicians have invested in NVDA and AMD. Both semiconductor in Santa Clara, CA. Both have substantial stock projections in the coming years with all the AI. And can’t discount Googles influence to Washington…deal signed in Sept of 2022 to manufacture in MN for the US Commerce Dept.
 
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#38
#38
Rasputin_Vol said:
WTF do you mean "attack"? Taiwan is part of China. Even the United States recognizes this. How can you "attack" something that you already possess?
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This is the same level of stupidity you’ve used to sell Russias’s “special-military-operation-definitely-not-a-war” and it isn’t going to gain any traction here either.
 
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#42
#42
Rasputin_Vol said:
My loyalties lay with peace and justice.
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#43
#43
LouderVol said:
they have the tech to make some. the issue is to make computers as powerful as they are today you have to make the chips smaller. China, and most of the world, has the tech to make them to a certain size, but not smaller. There are a number of nations who can make smaller than what China can, but Taiwan and either the Netherlands or Belgium, are the only ones who can make the best.

The European country was the one who invented the tech for the current best semiconductors, but they didn't have the manufacturing for it. Taiwan did. They only gave them the tech in a limited way to keep the IP from falling into the wrong hands. Whichever European country created the tech is ramping up their manufacturing, but they have a long way to go. That's why Taiwan makes 90% of the best as quoted elsewhere.

The US has been trying to get the tech too, our military, but the european country is refusing to sell. so we are now actually paying them/giving tax breaks or something, as long as they are able to maintain the stranglehold on the tech, and also don't sell it to anyone else. so if we can't buy it, we are making sure no one else can buy the tech to make it. The chips themselves we don't have that policy of, just the manufacturing. Although I have read we are back dooring the actual chips themselves too. My understanding is we are offering above asking price for far more chips than they can produce. Basically we are trying to strangle the ensure they only sell to us. This hasn't been 100% effective, but my understanding is that we are getting more of the chips than we otherwise would. I think we were even asking straight up how many do we have to buy for you to make this in America, and we will pay it. and I was hearing some stupid numbers, starting with a "T"

I very much doubt any Taiwanese citizen has access to anything important enough to recreate the tech in China.

this is part of the reason the Chinese are looking into quantum computing so much, as that helps "reset" the miniaturization issue. you still need powerful semiconductors, but you can make it work with what the Chinese have.
Click to expand...

That's very interesting. I don't keep up enough with it. I just assumed China has already stolen the technology to produce them
 
#44
#44
hog88 said:
If this article does anything it points to our weakness. Maybe instead of wasting money on useless green energy projects we invest in our own super high tech chip plants here?
Click to expand...

That seems to get back to our "investment" problem. Good things take time, and people are investing for short term profits. I can't see now how you could convince investors (individual or those controlling huge funds) to support long term projects like nuclear plants, oil refineries, or advanced semiconductor manufacturing. Some things (like oil refining) are turned off as far as investors are concerned by government policy, some (like needed nuclear power generation) are just too long term with uncertain paths, and advanced chip manufacturing need doesn't seem to be on the radar ... nobody sees the need right now since chips are currently available (one kind seems like another to most people). Much of this is all extremely capital intensive with no hope of return for an extended period of time, and that's just not in tune with our "investment" market thinking.
 
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#45
#45
scooty_vol said:
That's very interesting. I don't keep up enough with it. I just assumed China has already stolen the technology to produce them
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not the best/newest. my understanding is that they are about a generation behind. but that generation is fairly new, so its not like they have had a full cycle to fall behind. We are trying to make that happen, but its still up in the air.
 
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#46
#46
scooty_vol said:
That's very interesting. I don't keep up enough with it. I just assumed China has already stolen the technology to produce them
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This is a case where the Chinese have apparently not been able to duplicate the technology. Either they haven't been able to steal the technology, or they haven't been able to get it working. They had been in the same situation regarding advanced jet engines - they stole the technology but couldn't manage to reproduce the parts apparently. Monkey see, monkey do only gets them so far. The more basic run of the mill stuff has been provided to them by our globalists, but we're now talking tech beyond what they find in an Apple plant or in tearing down and reverse engineering a Boeing plane.
 
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#47
#47
AM64 said:
That seems to get back to our "investment" problem. Good things take time, and people are investing for short term profits. I can't see now how you could convince investors (individual or those controlling huge funds) to support long term projects like nuclear plants, oil refineries, or advanced semiconductor manufacturing. Some things (like oil refining) are turned off as far as investors are concerned by government policy, some (like needed nuclear power generation) are just too long term with uncertain paths, and advanced chip manufacturing need doesn't seem to be on the radar ... nobody sees the need right now since chips are currently available (one kind seems like another to most people). Much of this is all extremely capital intensive with no hope of return for an extended period of time, and that's just not in tune with our "investment" market thinking.
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It boils down to the government getting the **** out of the way.
 
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#48
#48
hog88 said:
It boils down to the government getting the **** out of the way.
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In a lot of cases, but even that won't flip the investment problem. I have no clue how to turn that around; as a country, we've just become so focused on the short term that we won't even stop to think about longer term needs.
 
#49
#49
AM64 said:
In a lot of cases, but even that won't flip the investment problem. I have no clue how to turn that around; as a country, we've just become so focused on the short term that we won't even stop to think about longer term needs.
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I agree, the "you're only as good as your last quarter" mentality is killing us.
 
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#50
#50
AM64 said:
In a lot of cases, but even that won't flip the investment problem. I have no clue how to turn that around; as a country, we've just become so focused on the short term that we won't even stop to think about longer term needs.
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We lack the number of engineers.
 
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