Taiwan: We have to bomb TSMC in order to save it

[865er]

they have the tech to make some. the issue is to make computers as powerful as they are today you have to make the chips smaller. China, and most of the world, has the tech to make them to a certain size, but not smaller. There are a number of nations who can make smaller than what China can, but Taiwan and either the Netherlands or Belgium, are the only ones who can make the best.

The European country was the one who invented the tech for the current best semiconductors, but they didn't have the manufacturing for it. Taiwan did. They only gave them the tech in a limited way to keep the IP from falling into the wrong hands. Whichever European country created the tech is ramping up their manufacturing, but they have a long way to go. That's why Taiwan makes 90% of the best as quoted elsewhere.

The US has been trying to get the tech too, our military, but the european country is refusing to sell. so we are now actually paying them/giving tax breaks or something, as long as they are able to maintain the stranglehold on the tech, and also don't sell it to anyone else. so if we can't buy it, we are making sure no one else can buy the tech to make it. The chips themselves we don't have that policy of, just the manufacturing. Although I have read we are back dooring the actual chips themselves too. My understanding is we are offering above asking price for far more chips than they can produce. Basically we are trying to strangle the ensure they only sell to us. This hasn't been 100% effective, but my understanding is that we are getting more of the chips than we otherwise would. I think we were even asking straight up how many do we have to buy for you to make this in America, and we will pay it. and I was hearing some stupid numbers, starting with a "T"

I very much doubt any Taiwanese citizen has access to anything important enough to recreate the tech in China.

this is part of the reason the Chinese are looking into quantum computing so much, as that helps "reset" the miniaturization issue. you still need powerful semiconductors, but you can make it work with what the Chinese have.

The US is still a leader in researching and designing semiconductors but like everything we else we opt to let an Asian country produce them to save a buck. It would take time to get the infrastructure in place, has already started, but we are more than capable of producing the best semiconductors available. We are definitely not behind in the technology.

 

[AM64]

We lack the number of engineers.

When I got dumped from my last engineering job, getting rid of US engineers was in full bloom. Companies couldn't dump us fast enough and use H-1B to hire cheap replacement foreign engineers. Most of us in that boat would or did tell HS grads to forget it - engineering degrees weren't worth the hard work and the cost because the chances of longevity in an engineering career were slim. Those days were a sad commentary on how the country viewed the future or paid attention to the present and how short sighted US companies could be ... and then they discovered globalization.

 

[Orangeburst]

Not who can make the chips..it is who can make the machines that make the chips. I have read some fascinating articles lately about US efforts to saturate the chip makers with orders, cutting off chip tech access to CCP, etc.

 

[AM64]

The US is still a leader in researching and designing semiconductors but like everything we else we opt to let an Asian country produce them to save a buck. It would take time to get the infrastructure in place, has already started, but we are more than capable of producing the best semiconductors available. We are definitely not behind in the technology.

We have the ability and raw resources; the question is whether we have the desire to do what we used to do. Perhaps more importantly is whether those at the top of corporate America are willing to sacrifice short term profits and whether they have the guts, wisdom, and foresight to regenerate what we used to be ... and would boards of directors and investors back them. My guess is that unless the CEO actually built the company from scratch, the answer from corporate America is a hard "NO"; the hired guns running places now are worthless.

 

[Hunerwadel]

I really cannot believe we are at this point.

US Threatens To ‘Blow Up’ Taiwan’s Semiconductor Manufacturing Firm If China Invades The Island; Taipei Unhappy

Congressmen say shite all the time.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Here

 

[85SugarVol]

View attachment 551642

View attachment 551643

And? You brought it here. You posted it.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

And? You brought it here. You posted it.

And I still don't understand what your point is.

I posted a ZH story in China thread and a few days later, another story pops up on another website dealing with the same thing and I post it.

What are you trying to say or suggest?

 

[85SugarVol]

And I still don't understand what your point is.

I posted a ZH story in China thread and a few days later, another story pops up on another website dealing with the same thing and I post it.

What are you trying to say or suggest?

I’m not playing any more reindeer games with you.

You posted an article saying Taiwan wouldn’t “let” the US blow up its plants.
I made a joke about it here.
You claimed ignorance.

Carry on.

 

[LittleVol]

Maybe the PRC will just let Taiwan Semi pack up their ASML equipment and move it over to India, North America, S Korea, and Vietnam. Surely the CCP doesn’t plan to keep stealing western technology.

Of course you destroy the extreme ultraviolet lithography machines if the CCP tries to take them. It’s a no-brainer. They’ve gotten away with IP theft for way too long.

The correct policy is to make Xi Jinping (and the world) know that is how it will play out. Factories don’t need to be flattened by dropping bombs on them. The ASML equipment just needs to be obliterated instead of allowing the CCP to put their filthy paws on it.

I believe that is part of the issue. The sensitvity of the manufacturing plants, and they just can't pack it up and leave to....Southwest US.

 

[LittleVol]

If this article does anything it points to our weakness. Maybe instead of wasting money on useless green energy projects we invest in our own super high tech chip plants here?

We are. "The Chips Act"

 

[Septic]

Smh, pick your loyalties. It's simple the USA or the Commumist world. Your choice. Most of us are tired of your anti-US crap and really wonder where your loyalties lie.

I don't wonder at all, he hates America.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

I believe that is part of the issue. The sensitvity of the manufacturing plants, and they just can't pack it up and leave to....Southwest US.

I know that the high end ASML circuit board printers won’t be evacuated. It was sarcasm.

 

[Vol423]

Smh, pick your loyalties. It's simple the USA or the Commumist world. Your choice. Most of us are tired of your anti-US crap and really wonder where your loyalties lie.

If you're wondering where his loyalties lie, then you haven't been paying attention.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

if its so easy for them why haven't they done this themselves on the mainland?

China doesn't have the technology. Heck I think a computer virus that wiped out all of the tech's software and memory would be just as good as a bomb. Leave them the hardware and let them scratch their heads.

Chinese Netizens Mock U.S. Sanctions Following Huawei Chip Breakthrough

Was Huawei’s reinvigoration spurred by US sanctions?

www.tomshardware.com

A new Huawei phone has defeated US chip sanctions against China

SMIC, China's top chipmaker, has manufactured a 7-nanometer processor for Huawei's Mate 60 Pro—despite US chip sanctions against China

qz.com

 

[LouderVol]

Chinese Netizens Mock U.S. Sanctions Following Huawei Chip Breakthrough

Was Huawei’s reinvigoration spurred by US sanctions?

www.tomshardware.com

A new Huawei phone has defeated US chip sanctions against China

SMIC, China's top chipmaker, has manufactured a 7-nanometer processor for Huawei's Mate 60 Pro—despite US chip sanctions against China

qz.com

I welcome China back to 2018.

"We hear the Kirin 9000S is manufactured by SMIC using these machines on its 2nd generation 7nm fabrication process. However, it is thought the process has poor yields and thus high costs at this time."

"Huawei released the phone online last week but didn’t reveal key specifications such as the processor design or the wireless connection speeds. China’s chip stocks started rallying on the speculation that the Shenzhen-based Huawei had engineered a triumphant return for its 5G smartphones using domestic chips. "
meanwhile, here in America we are pushing out 10G phones, and China is just now getting BACK to 5G technology.

and in your second article, they even mention that China is still having to increase its orders for chips from the few Western sources it can still get them. So its not like these articles are saying this break thru is even enough for their own usage.

Sanctions were never intended to stop them, but slow them down, maintain our edge. Your articles say nothing to refute that the sanctions didn't have the intended effect, if anything they say they did work.

Let me know when their quantum chips come out, that WOULD be a huge step forward and would probably place them ahead of the West in chip production.

 

[norrislakevol]

I welcome China back to 2018.

"We hear the Kirin 9000S is manufactured by SMIC using these machines on its 2nd generation 7nm fabrication process. However, it is thought the process has poor yields and thus high costs at this time."

"Huawei released the phone online last week but didn’t reveal key specifications such as the processor design or the wireless connection speeds. China’s chip stocks started rallying on the speculation that the Shenzhen-based Huawei had engineered a triumphant return for its 5G smartphones using domestic chips. "
meanwhile, here in America we are pushing out 10G phones, and China is just now getting BACK to 5G technology.

and in your second article, they even mention that China is still having to increase its orders for chips from the few Western sources it can still get them. So its not like these articles are saying this break thru is even enough for their own usage.

Sanctions were never intended to stop them, but slow them down, maintain our edge. Your articles say nothing to refute that the sanctions didn't have the intended effect, if anything they say they did work.

Let me know when their quantum chips come out, that WOULD be a huge step forward and would probably place them ahead of the West in chip production.

China will always be behind the U.S., Europe, Canada, and Australia in terms of technology advances. The Chinese aren't free thinkers. They have the copy and steal mindset and that will never change.

 

[tnmarktx]

I really cannot believe we are at this point.

US Threatens To ‘Blow Up’ Taiwan’s Semiconductor Manufacturing Firm If China Invades The Island; Taipei Unhappy

Depending on what's factual about what would happen if China controlled semiconductors, as immoral as it is and sounds, it could be a preferred option as opposed to China's control.

 

[Wireless1]

China will always be behind the U.S., Europe, Canada, and Australia in terms of technology advances. The Chinese aren't free thinkers. They have the copy and steal mindset and that will never change.

You can't be forced to be innovative. If your whole life has been do as you're told, and never been given the opportunity to be "free" you never get outside your box. It's also a problem with AI.

 

[norrislakevol]

You can't be forced to be innovative. If your whole life has been do as you're told, and never been given the opportunity to be "free" you never get outside your box. It's also a problem with AI.

Exactly. People who think like robots can only do so much.

 

[Orangeburst]

China will always be behind the U.S., Europe, Canada, and Australia in terms of technology advances. The Chinese aren't free thinkers. They have the copy and steal mindset and that will never change.

if you cant build it or they can steal it, what difference does it make not hilliary

 

[Gandalf]

My loyalties lay with peace and justice.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

China will always be behind the U.S., Europe, Canada, and Australia in terms of technology advances. The Chinese aren't free thinkers. They have the copy and steal mindset and that will never change.

 

[norrislakevol]

LOL!!! The U.S. is superior to their military....period. Just stop.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

China will always be behind the U.S., Europe, Canada, and Australia in terms of technology advances. The Chinese aren't free thinkers. They have the copy and steal mindset and that will never change.

You sound silly. D you really think you can cap a country like China's ability to innovate? Especially with a significant number of Taiwanese living and working in China right now? Do you think Taiwanese have not helped them? Do you not think the Russians haven't helped them? The Indians? Iranians? Arab states?

You can't shutdown innovation with sanctions and c*ckblocking in 2023, you morons. Are you a boomer or something?

US Gov't Begins Probe Into Huawei's Breakthrough Chip | ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

The spokesperson continued, "Let's be clear: export controls are just one tool in the US government's toolbox to address the national security threats presented by the PRC. The restrictions in place since 2019 have knocked Huawei down and forced it to reinvent itself — at a substantial cost to the PRC government."