Taliban Taking Over Afghanistan - Does anyone care?

Do you care?

  • No

    Votes: 40 23.3%
  • Hell No

    Votes: 47 27.3%
  • Yes, we should invade and send in Troops

    Votes: 25 14.5%
  • I like Pie

    Votes: 60 34.9%

  • Total voters
    172
In all fairness, when Trump announced the pull out over a year ago... if i were there I would be leaving.

When Biden announced it would be complete by August 31st. I would have been gone shortly after the announcement.

This was a bungled pull out. Biden and his advisors screwed the pooch. But one year ago, DT released 5,000 Taliban fighters in exchange for a cease-fire to help his flailing presidential campaign, despite strenuous objections from both the Pentagon and the Afghan government. President Ashraf Ghani warned that their release would be a “danger to the world.” There is a lot of blame to be had with this sh!t sandwich.

One thing to consider here are the unintended consequences of the actions from last year...

Did Trump releasing those prisoners earn enough goodwill with the Taliban that they are allowing our retreat relatively unopposed? Think about how pissed they would be if they had to jail break those former (probably current) fighters while we were withdrawing. So far, they have allowed us unimpeded access to the airport to evacuate our people even though they control the capital and the immediate area surrounding the airport.

There very well could have been enough "respect" for lack of a better term on the part of the Taliban to let us leave in peace. Like I said last night, they don't need to behead Americans in the streets if they've already won. But at the same time, if you introduced 5,000 fighters into the mix that recently got out of jails being overseen by Americans, the situation could have been very different.
 
I'm still trying to figure out how according to the poll, the majority of people don't care about Afghanistan, yet are still here saying how Biden has royally screwed this up. If you don't care, why does it matter?

What's hard to understand? People can not care about what happens with the Afgans but care deeply about our people still there and the ineptitude of our withdrawal.
 
What's hard to understand? People can not care about what happens with the Afgans but care deeply about our people still there and the ineptitude of our withdrawal.
The Taliban took over in a matter of days without even firing a shot. We've wasted 20 years and a trillion dollars. Time to cut losses and move on.
 
The Taliban took over in a matter of days without even firing a shot. We've wasted 20 years and a trillion dollars. Time to cut losses and move on.
Yep, and you can't buy the "will-power" that's needed to fight the Taliban. I may not like Joe Biden but, I agree... not our civil war to fight because we've done it long enough.
 
I'm still trying to figure out how according to the poll, the majority of people don't care about Afghanistan, yet are still here saying how Biden has royally screwed this up. If you don't care, why does it matter?
I would ask the same question about the Arizona audit thread.
 
Who's arguing for us to continue the fight?
No one, but we've been there for 20 years fighting a fight that was done after we decimated Al-Queda and Osama in 2011. Pretty much anything in the Middle East will be unfruitful, it's been unstable since Biblical times and will never change until the end of time.
 
One thing to consider here are the unintended consequences of the actions from last year...

Did Trump releasing those prisoners earn enough goodwill with the Taliban that they are allowing our retreat relatively unopposed? Think about how pissed they would be if they had to jail break those former (probably current) fighters while we were withdrawing. So far, they have allowed us unimpeded access to the airport to evacuate our people even though they control the capital and the immediate area surrounding the airport.

There very well could have been enough "respect" for lack of a better term on the part of the Taliban to let us leave in peace. Like I said last night, they don't need to behead Americans in the streets if they've already won. But at the same time, if you introduced 5,000 fighters into the mix that recently got out of jails being overseen by Americans, the situation could have been very different.

Lol
 
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The final 30 seconds is why I posted this…

I don't really disagree with you, I was just clarifying why it isn't cut and dry that we funded the Taliban. The fact I've always found ironic is the best Afghan officers now were trained in Moscow during the war with the Mujihadeen; and the most pro-US Afghan police chiefs have heavy ties to the opium trade. I'm just pissed that after 2 decades of sacrifice it ended in this disaster.
 
1. the official line (press conf in July) was that Taliban taking over was at best a remote possibility and the administration had very strong faith in the Afghani govt/military. This was a 100% whiff.

True - and valid. However, given the amount of equipment planned to be left behind, combined with forces we have trained for the better part of a decade +, its hard to imagine that the consensus in the IC was the Taliban would still take back the country in a matter of weeks.

2. we drew down the limited military we had prior to getting civilians out. Even if you had faith in #1 you'd think you'd hold ground until the time to leave. we chose to cede ground and retreat to Kabul militarily on flawed assumptions.

This simply isn't true. It just isn't VBH. Do you really think we withdrew all military out before we withdrew all civilians? We didn't retreat to Kabul either. We handed over bases one by one to the ANA. We fell back to Kabul because that was the last base to handover and the Embassy would be the new mission. Chracterizing this as a retreat is stupid. I would bet the mortgage that 95%+ of all civilians were withdrawn prior to a month ago. I know for an absolute fact all the government civilians and contractors I worked with were withdrawn months ago as their base was closed/handed over to ANA.

This is a tired line because we had roughly a 1000 people left (depending on reports) that we withdrew the military, ceded ground, and then just left everybody without a security blanket. The people that were left up to a week ago had a specific purpose/job and couldn't leave until the last bird took off.

The valid criticism here is that we did not leave enough security forces behind. The fact that we are having to send troops back in is unacceptable. However, the line that we had no security forces left and we just gave up and left civilians there because we were retreating to Kabul is patently false.

3. the IC, military and Biden (as he told us today) have extensive experience with the Afghani government and situation on the ground. It's hard to imagine they really had faith in what they were telling us (300K soldiers with the best equipment and a solid government will hold against Taliban or at least for some significant period of time).

After 20 years they absolutely had extensive experience with the Afghani government. And I would bet both the US and Afghan governments absolutely thought this would go different. As you said before, that was a whiff, and that is valid criticism. I don't find it hard at all to imagine they really had faith this would go different, and I don't find it hard to imagine that they got that epically wrong (because that is the reality of the situation right now).

4. so given #3 the plan should have been baked around the contingency that the Taliban is going to being a real impediment to the withdrawal (a notion Biden chided us for embracing).

So it sounds like you are saying everybody should have known the country was going to fall in a matter of weeks, we should have kept a full posture there, and not given up any ground.

Then why make plans to leave in the first place? Hell, why even leave in the first place? At some point you just have to do it.

I'm not complaining about the equipment - if you want the Afghani's to defend themselves you have to leave it for them.

A lot of people are, and it goes to my larger point that everyone will find something wrong.

I am complaining about the "surprise" that conditions got bad and that instead of focusing on getting civilians out we withdrew militarily first which was the catalyst for the "surprise" condition. We set the conditions for this to happen and when people questioned it we were told to shut up because it was all under control. There are any number of ways we could have done this better.

Again, this just isn't true. The surprise was that this happened so fast and the criticism is that we didn't leave enough security forces behind and had to send guys back in. The idea that we focused on the military first and left civilians behind is simply false.

This was a failure to build a suitable contingency. We have steadily drawn down in both civilian support and military footprint for the last couple of years. FOBs have been closing in a methodical and planned way. We should have kept a larger contingent force to make sure the handover went smoothly. Of course, then the the criticism would be we are never leaving, or maybe the Taliban would have still waited until they left. There are any number of scenarios.

At the end of the day, not a single person on this board can deny the fact that we are finally out, this administration actually did it, and evidently, the end result is the way the Afghan people wanted it.

“The only thing that we learn from history is that we learn nothing from history." - Ashwin Sanghi.
 
I don't really disagree with you, I was just clarifying why it isn't cut and dry that we funded the Taliban. The fact I've always found ironic is the best Afghan officers now were trained in Moscow during the war with the Mujihadeen; and the most pro-US Afghan police chiefs have heavy ties to the opium trade. I'm just pissed that after 2 decades of sacrifice it ended in this disaster.
I didn’t clarify. I was backing up what you were saying.
 
I'm still trying to figure out how according to the poll, the majority of people don't care about Afghanistan, yet are still here saying how Biden has royally screwed this up. If you don't care, why does it matter?

He screwed up the withdrawal. People are all for getting out. But not looking like an incompetent buffoon as you exit.
 
It's a very nice and sizable benefit of the doubt that you would no doubt be affording if it were Biden or Obama's work.

And every president since and including Bush knew this. Everyone was going to shoot holes in any failure to get something right. It's why although I didn't vote Biden nor do I support his agenda, he gets credit for actually pulling the trigger and getting us out. Administrations for the last 20 years wouldn't do it but he did.
 
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