Team Issue…

[OrangeVolMan]

But Tennessee is an SEC team that should not have struggled against AP!
Georgia,Bama, LSU, Mizzou, would've thumped them.

You do t know that. UGA is up 8 on a 6-5 GA Tech team.

 

[kirbysmartsbowlcut12]

Everyone can say Milton is the problem but both the offense and defense is clearly lacking confidence.

There’s no heart, no fight, no energy surrounding this team.

Is there a distraction going on? Who knows but something is definitely not right with this staff that just won 11 games last year.

What's mainly not right is we no longer have a generational QB, 2 high NFL draft pick receivers, & an elite, high draft pick edge rusher. Hooker & the talent on offense basically masked all the other issues, elite talent often does. This season is what Heupel is when he doesn't have elite talent to overcome his marginal coaching/leadership abilities. There's a reason Danny White looked elsewhere after getting this job before he basically had to pivot to Heupel.

 

[SATX VOL]

This sums up the year for me too.
Key injuries and the bad calls and no calls really made this season difficult to watch at times.

It really did. It was the first year that there were times it felt pointless to watch. It made me ask myself “why do I even care. What’s the point of getting excited knowing they won’t let us win”. It was obvious and it got too me a little too much maybe .

 

[sjt18]

Remember, as a fan, per The unofficial official rulebook of being a fan in section 4...True fan requirements, "thou shall not question the coaches or AD for any decision for any reason."

Question for sure. Most of us have done it. But when the questions come from a place of absolute ignorance and judge things that the complainer simply has no way of observing or really knowing about... then they shouldn't get defensive when someone pushes back.

I'm critical of Banks. Others have claimed it has been all talent related. I am just not sure he is able to match wits with SEC caliber OCs... or even below. How often do announcers say things like, "The OC had the exact right call for that defense" when Banks' D is on the field? His game planning appears to be predictable. His playcalling appears to be predictable. Heupel promised aggression on both sides of the ball. At least when it comes to taking risks in coverage, Banks seems to just not be comfortable with pushing the limits.

I see his results. I see at least according to recruiting sites and "measurables" the type of talent available to him. And I "question" what he's getting done. I haven't seen Gibson, Conyer, Luttrell, Matthews, or John Slaughter practice. So I can't say that I know that Banks is playing the wrong players. They seem like talented guys but maybe they just aren't ready. And there's your difference. I'm trying hard NOT to talk out of my rear by saying something like, "Gibson should be starting NOW".

Also, people are making assumptions about Nico. Lots of 5* talents take a year or two to really catch up with the college game. Some never do.

The 5* QBs in the 2021 class were Ewers, Caleb Williams, Sam Huard, Vandagriff, Kyle McCord, and Ty Thompson.

Ewers is starting after a pretty slow beginning.

Williams has been great.

Huard couldn't cut it at Washington and currently plays at Cal Tech.

Vandagriff is a back up for UGA and may not even be a solid #2.

McCord starts for OSU.

Thompson is a back up at Oregon in his 3rd year with 31 attempts on the season. Nico has 26 in 4 games as a Fr.



Saying that Nico must start means you have to know two things. One is that Milton isn't performing as good as possible in the circumstances. I don't think he is but not for the more obvious reasons often talked about. I think he flat out just misses too many open receivers. I don't think he does pre-snap reads that great and am certain that he doesn't read the flow of coverage anywhere near the level of Hooker. Nothing against him. I just don't think he's a guy who makes the team better than the sum of its parts like HH.

But the other part you have to know is whether Nico has the talent, development, and knowledge to be better RIGHT NOW. None of us know that. The coaches either do or should or else their tenure won't be very long.

 

[sjt18]

What's mainly not right is we no longer have a generational QB, 2 high NFL draft pick receivers, & an elite, high draft pick edge rusher. Hooker & the talent on offense basically masked all the other issues, elite talent often does. This season is what Heupel is when he doesn't have elite talent to overcome his marginal coaching/leadership abilities. There's a reason Danny White looked elsewhere after getting this job before he basically had to pivot to Heupel.

That is the biggest pile of BS posted here lately. And if your AD doesn't look around before hiring someone... then fire him immediately. The bigger reason White turned to Heupel besides knowing that he had talent and leadership is that a "name" coach wasn't going to take over what Pruitt left without a Jimbo kind of contract. And as A&M fans now know... resumes don't guarantee results but contracts do guarantee ridiculous buyouts.

Best case, a talented young coach that White knows he can work with comes in and turns things around. Worst case, a talented young coach that White knows he can work with comes in and steadies the ship so it is easier to hire one of those "name" coaches.

Last year's team did NOT have elite talent when compared to the rest of the SEC. That "talent" didn't cover anything. The roster and even the two deep had big talent gaps. In some respects, they're still working to fill them. It was a middling roster... if that. It was an extraordinary demonstration of coaching talent and potential to get 11 wins out of that team.

This season is much more a reflection of where the roster is considering the train wreck it was when Heupel was hired. If not for last year... everyone would be praising an 8 win season with this QB, roster, and injuries. They have not overachieved this year. They did last year. That is what they're capable of. That is a reflection of Heupel's abilities.

Milton isn't a "difference maker" like Hooker. He doesn't see open WRs. He misses too many throws. He isn't decisive when running. He doesn't throw a catchable ball. Surrounded with UGA level talent or even if this Vol team had not experienced the number of injuries on O that it has... he's adequate. UT doesn't need "adequate" at the QB position right now. Nico shows some signs of being what the Vols need. It was still wise to let him develop for a year before throwing him in the deep end.

 

[VolFanNC09]

Milton isn't the only problem, but the season was really going to be tied to how he did at QB. Losing McCoy though I think was the biggest loss for Milton's confidence and cost us 1-2 games.

If Milton played well, we are a 10-2, 11-1 team, if he played average we were a 7-5 to a 9-3 team. The D got injured in the secondary and the OL played Ok considering only Ollie Lane played in all the games.

 

[Hairy Vols]

Year 3 and not even competitive in 2 games in a row is concerning to say the least.

I strongly disagree. I think we have nothing to worry about. We are lacking scholarships, we were a train wreck coming into the season 3 years ago.

If you’re implying there is concern with our head coach.. I couldn’t disagree more. If I look at the totality of his time here and breakdown where I thought we would be in 3 years. Even at 8-4 that is far better than I expected.

 

[Hairy Vols]

That is the biggest pile of BS posted here lately. And if your AD doesn't look around before hiring someone... then fire him immediately. The bigger reason White turned to Heupel besides knowing that he had talent and leadership is that a "name" coach wasn't going to take over what Pruitt left without a Jimbo kind of contract. And as A&M fans now know... resumes don't guarantee results but contracts do guarantee ridiculous buyouts.

Best case, a talented young coach that White knows he can work with comes in and turns things around. Worst case, a talented young coach that White knows he can work with comes in and steadies the ship so it is easier to hire one of those "name" coaches.

Last year's team did NOT have elite talent when compared to the rest of the SEC. That "talent" didn't cover anything. The roster and even the two deep had big talent gaps. In some respects, they're still working to fill them. It was a middling roster... if that. It was an extraordinary demonstration of coaching talent and potential to get 11 wins out of that team.

This season is much more a reflection of where the roster is considering the train wreck it was when Heupel was hired. If not for last year... everyone would be praising an 8 win season with this QB, roster, and injuries. They have not overachieved this year. They did last year. That is what they're capable of. That is a reflection of Heupel's abilities.

Milton isn't a "difference maker" like Hooker. He doesn't see open WRs. He misses too many throws. He isn't decisive when running. He doesn't throw a catchable ball. Surrounded with UGA level talent or even if this Vol team had not experienced the number of injuries on O that it has... he's adequate. UT doesn't need "adequate" at the QB position right now. Nico shows some signs of being what the Vols need. It was still wise to let him develop for a year before throwing him in the deep end.

One of the best breakdowns I’ve heard on this board. Thank you for that. Solid points all the way around.

 

[FollowTheLeader]

Question for sure. Most of us have done it. But when the questions come from a place of absolute ignorance and judge things that the complainer simply has no way of observing or really knowing about... then they shouldn't get defensive when someone pushes back.

I'm critical of Banks. Others have claimed it has been all talent related. I am just not sure he is able to match wits with SEC caliber OCs... or even below. How often do announcers say things like, "The OC had the exact right call for that defense" when Banks' D is on the field? His game planning appears to be predictable. His playcalling appears to be predictable. Heupel promised aggression on both sides of the ball. At least when it comes to taking risks in coverage, Banks seems to just not be comfortable with pushing the limits.

I see his results. I see at least according to recruiting sites and "measurables" the type of talent available to him. And I "question" what he's getting done. I haven't seen Gibson, Conyer, Luttrell, Matthews, or John Slaughter practice. So I can't say that I know that Banks is playing the wrong players. They seem like talented guys but maybe they just aren't ready. And there's your difference. I'm trying hard NOT to talk out of my rear by saying something like, "Gibson should be starting NOW".

Also, people are making assumptions about Nico. Lots of 5* talents take a year or two to really catch up with the college game. Some never do.

The 5* QBs in the 2021 class were Ewers, Caleb Williams, Sam Huard, Vandagriff, Kyle McCord, and Ty Thompson.

Ewers is starting after a pretty slow beginning.

Williams has been great.

Huard couldn't cut it at Washington and currently plays at Cal Tech.

Vandagriff is a back up for UGA and may not even be a solid #2.

McCord starts for OSU.

Thompson is a back up at Oregon in his 3rd year with 31 attempts on the season. Nico has 26 in 4 games as a Fr.



Saying that Nico must start means you have to know two things. One is that Milton isn't performing as good as possible in the circumstances. I don't think he is but not for the more obvious reasons often talked about. I think he flat out just misses too many open receivers. I don't think he does pre-snap reads that great and am certain that he doesn't read the flow of coverage anywhere near the level of Hooker. Nothing against him. I just don't think he's a guy who makes the team better than the sum of its parts like HH.

But the other part you have to know is whether Nico has the talent, development, and knowledge to be better RIGHT NOW. None of us know that. The coaches either do or should or else their tenure won't be very long.

You have too much time on your hands...

 

[sjt18]

You have too much time on your hands...

You'd be surprised how untrue that is.... It doesn't take that much time to think, reason, and type a couple of paragraphs.

 

[NMVol]

The more I think about it the more it strikes me that the receiving corps was down this year in comparison to last and Joe took the shade.

 

[GetYouSomeofThat]

What's mainly not right is we no longer have a generational QB, 2 high NFL draft pick receivers, & an elite, high draft pick edge rusher. Hooker & the talent on offense basically masked all the other issues, elite talent often does. This season is what Heupel is when he doesn't have elite talent to overcome his marginal coaching/leadership abilities. There's a reason Danny White looked elsewhere after getting this job before he basically had to pivot to Heupel.

How long have you been a Vol fan?

 

[JustinVol]

We’d

What's mainly not right is we no longer have a generational QB, 2 high NFL draft pick receivers, & an elite, high draft pick edge rusher. Hooker & the talent on offense basically masked all the other issues, elite talent often does. This season is what Heupel is when he doesn't have elite talent to overcome his marginal coaching/leadership abilities. There's a reason Danny White looked elsewhere after getting this job before he basically had to pivot to Heupel.

So what exactly should he have done?

 

[docterjaws]

Why fight when coach won’t make a QB change for the betterment of the team? There’s zero chance the locker room still wants Joe out there lol

your so full of it. everyone in the locker room loves and supports Joe Milton - he is a great guy and and athlete but he is not a H hooker. BUT NEITHER IS NICO!!!!!! right now - let the coaches decide who give them a better chance to win. IT AIN'T NCO

 

[sjt18]

Milton isn't the only problem, but the season was really going to be tied to how he did at QB. Losing McCoy though I think was the biggest loss for Milton's confidence and cost us 1-2 games.

If Milton played well, we are a 10-2, 11-1 team, if he played average we were a 7-5 to a 9-3 team. The D got injured in the secondary and the OL played Ok considering only Ollie Lane played in all the games.

McCoy was significant but the musical chairs on the OL was even worse. I think folks forget that Mays missed all those games early. He likely would have been the difference in the UF game. Odd to say that about a Center but he was huge.

 

[sjt18]

Why fight when coach won’t make a QB change for the betterment of the team?

And you KNOW that the team wanted Nico thrown out there how? You were at practice I suppose when he demonstrated a complete mastery of the O and proved he was better?

If it were for the "betterment of the team" then Nico would have become the starter. But for a LOT of possible reasons Heupel... who is a lot more qualified than you... determined that it wasn't. Short term- He probably just wasn't ready physically or mentally. You don't even know if he would have been a better option than Gaston Moore at this particular point of his development.

Long term- they've invested a year of development in Nico. He's about 25 lbs heavier now. He's had a full year of absorbing the O and learning how to prepare/study film. He's been able to learn from Milton who is a smart guy and also from Milton's mistakes.

In short, Heupel didn't play Nico more than likely because he's not stupid and reactionary.

There’s zero chance the locker room still wants Joe out there lol

There has never been one ounce of proof for that. All indications are that it would have been far more damaging to the program now and in the future had they pulled the plug on Milton and then Nico had floundered... as they apparently and realistically figured he would at times.

 

[Smokey7]

You do t know that. UGA is up 8 on a 6-5 GA Tech team.

Have a feeling Georgia could've beat Tech a lot more if they wanted. They're loaded top to bottom.

 

[Smokey7]

Banks is doing fine. Maybe Martinez is the only change needed.

 

[Volador]

Why fight when coach won’t make a QB change for the betterment of the team? There’s zero chance the locker room still wants Joe out there lol

Just curious, do you have proof of this or just juxtaposing? I tend to think that the team has lost faith in the offensive play callers and did NOT use our talent on the field correctly (that would piss me off as a player). Joe throws as accurate of a short pass as any QB in the league but yet, the coaches continually forced him to drop back, where he clearly is not ready for that role. Play to Joe's strengths was NOT in our game plan this year. Example, his running ability. Was it the 7th game that Joe finally ran the ball? Was that Joe's decision not to run or, the coaches? So many questions, but no more time to answer them....!!

 

[UTK]

your so full of it. everyone in the locker room loves and supports Joe Milton - he is a great guy and and athlete but he is not a H hooker. BUT NEITHER IS NICO!!!!!! right now - let the coaches decide who give them a better chance to win. IT AIN'T NCO

It is Nico. Period. Some coaches get caught up in being to loyal to one guy. Hopefully CJH learns from it. He played Small more than Sampson too and that was a mistake as well.

 

[sjt18]

Banks is doing fine. Maybe Martinez is the only change needed.

Banks is the one calling plays and being predictable. He is ultimately the author of game plans and in game adjustments. Banks is the one who decides whether the DBs play tight or loose. It isn't personal. The guy is just outclassed almost every week.

Franklin had him as "co" DC at Penn State. There was kind of a row when he was hired because he wasn't the play caller. He blew it off when asked about it since he had called plays at a lower level before. Now... you're seeing it. Vandy's OC outwitted him. Think about that.

Martinez is a position coach. He primarily teaches technique and recruits. Maybe he needs to go... but he's not the biggest problem.

 

[Majors]

We need to go and get Will Muschamp as DC and bring Derek Mason as well

I’d be on board with Muschamp as long as Garner is kept.

 

[casual-observer]

If the offense were doing better, the defense would do better. And if the defense were doing better, the offense would do better.

For whatever reason the defense looks pretty good until 3rd down, but then they just can't get off the field.

The offense gets on the field, can't convert on third down, and usually goes three and out. Can't stay on the field.

Fix third down and you might fix this team.

This.

2023 Tennessee SEC ranking:

-> 5th in 3rd Down Conversions (not bad)
-> 13th in 4th Down Conversions
-> 12th in Red Zone Conversions

-> 10th in Opponent First Downs
-> 12th in Opponent 3rd Down Conversions
-> 12th in Opponent Red Zone Conversions

-> 14th in Time of Possession

This much work on a defense only holds up in your scoring fiddy.

 

[Smokey7]

Banks is the one calling plays and being predictable. He is ultimately the author of game plans and in game adjustments. Banks is the one who decides whether the DBs play tight or loose. It isn't personal. The guy is just outclassed almost every week.

Franklin had him as "co" DC at Penn State. There was kind of a row when he was hired because he wasn't the play caller. He blew it off when asked about it since he had called plays at a lower level before. Now... you're seeing it. Vandy's OC outwitted him. Think about that.

Martinez is a position coach. He primarily teaches technique and recruits. Maybe he needs to go... but he's not the biggest problem.

Maybe a lot of it is talent too.

 

[sjt18]

Maybe a lot of it is talent too.

I disagree. He has had talent. He had a talent advantage vs Vandy and still gave up 24 points. Teams with a lot less talent play aggressive against WRs at the LOS.

I'm not claiming the talent has been elite or that it doesn't need to be better. I'm looking at what he's done with what he's had and drawing my opinion... which I think is backed up by what we see.