Tennessee considers withholding monoclonal antibody treatment from vaccinated citizens

[AshG]

Are you actually trying to say 300 physicians is a proper sample size for the entire country?

I agree with you, it seems like an underpowered survey.

 

[tnmarktx]

Ok, what side effects and what questionable efficacy?

The side effects and questionable efficacy of the covid vaccine.

 

[tnmarktx]

UTMC would lose about 25% of their workforce which is why they haven’t and won’t really mandate vaccines

My wife says they are having a hard time filling positions as it is.

 

[CABVOL]

If you can draw a straight line to causation then sure, but you can’t. If that is the road you’re going down then why aren’t coal powered plants held liable for respiratory diseases in their fallout zone and contaminated watersheds that contribute to chronic health conditions?

If we, as a healthcare industry, began denying treatment to those that are directly responsible for what brought them to us in the first place, you and I and most all other healthcare professionals would be out of work. I see it daily as I am sure you do as well.
I don’t have to have empathy for the strung out heroin/meth addict that is swinging from the sprinkler system in my department, or the drunk driver that was in a wreck that I’m now having to battle with to treat them, but I do it because I believe in caring for and helping others with their medical care, even if their own personal choices are directly correlated to them ending up in my department.

If we pick and choose, whom chooses and where do we draw the line?

 

[tntar heel]

We have Biden choosing who gets antibodies based on nothing but politics and now you have Tennessee doing the same thing and you come on this website suggesting universal healthcare is an option to help?
View attachment 396216

This is the foot in the door for Government run healthcare. The president and advisor deciding what meds work best. States or individuals don't comply...get less of the 2nd option untll you accept mandates for a particular standard of care.

 

[volinbham]

I agree with you, it seems like an underpowered survey.

didn't look at the sample but as I understand it many physicians aren't members of the AMA - if they just sampled members it's not generalizable to all physicians (even if the sample size was sufficient)

 

[tntar heel]

If there really is the threat of an impending shortage, the first step should be increasing production (which would be quite simple, really) -- and this should be the focus of the fed government. Next, revise the criteria for MAb to include only those at higher risk for hospitalization/poor outcomes -- e.g. raise the minimum age from 12 to maybe 35/45, exclude fully-vaccinated individuals unless they have an immunocompromised condition, ... The latter should be the responsibility of the CDC/NIH/professional medical associations.

You mean sorta protect the most vulnerable... Hmmm. Novel idea.

 

[OHvol40]

The side effects and questionable efficacy of the covid vaccine.

Be specific about them and their prevalence please.

 

[Velo Vol]

If we, as a healthcare industry, began denying treatment to those that are directly responsible for what brought them to us in the first place, you and I and most all other healthcare professionals would be out of work.

The difference here being that the refusal to treat isn't for moral objections, it's because there's not enough medicine to go around.

 

[Septic]

One day well look back on these anti vax morons the same way we look at people who still smoke.

 

[volinbham]

The difference here being that the refusal to treat isn't for moral objections, it's because there's not enough medicine to go around.

triage is typically when you have multiple patients at a single point in time and you have to prioritize. I haven't seen data showing that people are waiting in line for MAb and they are triaging that lot. It's more about anticipated demand.

to the point of the example you quoted - the ER deals with triage all the time and they don't take personal choice into consideration when dolling out treatment; it's about medical need (as it should be).

 

[OHvol40]

If we, as a healthcare industry, began denying treatment to those that are directly responsible for what brought them to us in the first place, you and I and most all other healthcare professionals would be out of work. I see it daily as I am sure you do as well.
I don’t have to have empathy for the strung out heroin/meth addict that is swinging from the sprinkler system in my department, or the drunk driver that was in a wreck that I’m now having to battle with to treat them, but I do it because I believe in caring for and helping others with their medical care, even if their own personal choices are directly correlated to them ending up in my department.

If we pick and choose, whom chooses and where do we draw the line?

Agreed. There are instances such as women giving birth to drug dependent neonates, prisoners who have done terrible things, parents who have abused their children… that I absolutely do not want to deal with but I must, as do you and the rest of us. Included in this group is people who chose not to get the covid vaccine as part of a political statement and then show up to crowd our ICUs and covid units making the strain of being understaffed and over ratio that much worse and syphoning care from others who are more responsible.

My region has just recently reduced to maximum age for someone that can receive ECMO to 35. That means if you’re over 35 we no longer have the resources to provide this often life-saving treatment for you because most of these resources are going to unvaccinated covid patients.

If you experience this day after day, week after week then you start to become plain p*ssed off for the patients that could use the help, and any rationally knowledgeable person knows that the larger the unvaccinated/unprotected population is the faster these variants will develop and the longer these severe outbreaks will last.

 

[Velo Vol]

One day well look back on these anti vax morons the same way we look at people who still smoke.

Except a lot of smokers know what they're doing is unhealthful.

 

[CABVOL]

Agreed. There are instances such as women giving birth to drug dependent neonates, prisoners who have done terrible things, parents who have abused their children… that I absolutely do not want to deal with but I must, as do you and the rest of us. Included in this group is people who chose not to get the covid vaccine as part of a political statement and then show up to crowd our ICUs and covid units making the strain of being understaffed and over ratio that much worse and syphoning care from others who are more responsible.

My region has just recently reduced to maximum age for someone that can receive ECMO to 35. That means if you’re over 35 we no longer have the resources to provide this often life-saving treatment for you because most of these resources are going to unvaccinated covid patients.

If you experience this day after day, week after week then you start to become plain p*ssed off for the patients that could use the help, and any rationally knowledgeable person knows that the larger the unvaccinated/unprotected population is the faster these variants will develop and the longer these severe outbreaks will last.

Understand that sentiment completely. A couple of weeks ago, our affiliate hospital in Louisville had 10 ppl waiting on ECMO, simply because there were no beds available. I’ve wondered how many didn’t make it simply because they were unable to be treated.

It is extremely frustrating, for sure. Staff stretched thin already due to shortages and then this.

I was told today that in our small county (population wise), there were two big weddings this past weekend, one with 450 ppl in attendance. Looking for another uptick in covid pts by next week. Sigh

 

[allvol123]

One day well look back on these anti vax morons the same way we look at people who still smoke.

Lol, no we wont.

 

[volinbham]

Agreed. There are instances such as women giving birth to drug dependent neonates, prisoners who have done terrible things, parents who have abused their children… that I absolutely do not want to deal with but I must, as do you and the rest of us. Included in this group is people who chose not to get the covid vaccine as part of a political statement and then show up to crowd our ICUs and covid units making the strain of being understaffed and over ratio that much worse and syphoning care from others who are more responsible.

My region has just recently reduced to maximum age for someone that can receive ECMO to 35. That means if you’re over 35 we no longer have the resources to provide this often life-saving treatment for you because most of these resources are going to unvaccinated covid patients.

If you experience this day after day, week after week then you start to become plain p*ssed off for the patients that could use the help, and any rationally knowledgeable person knows that the larger the unvaccinated/unprotected population is the faster these variants will develop and the longer these severe outbreaks will last.

To CAB's point - the ER sees this not only day after day, week after week but month after month, year after year, decade after decade, etc. Bad choices are a major cause of HC utilization yet the anger at the unvaxxed exceeds anything I've ever seen compared to the long history of bad choices leading to excess demands on the system.

I get that people are frustrated by the pandemic - to me the anger at the unvaxxed is just misplaced frustration. The reality is that year 2 of the pandemic is running at the same rate as Year 1 even with improved treatments and effective vaccines. It was a pipe dream to expect this would just fade away. We have multiple examples of high vax rate geographies seeing major surges - blaming this on the unvaxxed is simply ignoring the reality of pandemics

 

[CABVOL]

To CAB's point - the ER sees this not only day after day, week after week but month after month, year after year, decade after decade, etc. Bad choices are a major cause of HC utilization yet the anger at the unvaxxed exceeds anything I've ever seen compared to the long history of bad choices leading to excess demands on the system.

I get that people are frustrated by the pandemic - to me the anger at the unvaxxed is just misplaced frustration. The reality is that year 2 of the pandemic is running at the same rate as Year 1 even with improved treatments and effective vaccines. It was a pipe dream to expect this would just fade away. We have multiple examples of high vax rate geographies seeing major surges - blaming this on the unvaxxed is simply ignoring the reality of pandemics

I’m all about personal choice. Working in this day in and day out, I, like many others in here, see the results every day. I was initially against getting the vaccine, but after doing my own research from unbiased sources, I made the decision the get vaccinated. I hv susceptible family members and decided it best for me to take the steps I needed to for them. Even though I changed my stance, I still believe it’s each person’s choice to decide what to put in their body.

That being said, we had a lady pass this weekend from covid. She told one of our nurses that she wanted to be vaccinated, but her kids talked her out of it. I hope they can live with that decision they made for their mother.

 

[volinbham]

I’m all about personal choice. Working in this day in and day out, I, like many others in here, see the results every day. I was initially against getting the vaccine, but after doing my own research from unbiased sources, I made the decision the get vaccinated. I hv susceptible family members and decided it best for me to take the steps I needed to for them. Even though I changed my stance, I still believe it’s each person’s choice to decide what to put in their body.

That being said, we had a lady pass this weekend from covid. She told one of our nurses that she wanted to be vaccinated, but her kids talked her out of it. I hope they can live with that decision they made for their mother.

I just find that the righteous indignant attitude about the unvaxxed to be irrational - I understand it as an outlet for frustration about the pandemic but the "follow the science™" crowd has really placed all their eggs in the "it's the unvaxxed's fault" basket which is not consistent with the science.

FTR - I'm vaxxed and was as soon as it was available to me.

 

[OHvol40]

To CAB's point - the ER sees this not only day after day, week after week but month after month, year after year, decade after decade, etc. Bad choices are a major cause of HC utilization yet the anger at the unvaxxed exceeds anything I've ever seen compared to the long history of bad choices leading to excess demands on the system.

I get that people are frustrated by the pandemic - to me the anger at the unvaxxed is just misplaced frustration. The reality is that year 2 of the pandemic is running at the same rate as Year 1 even with improved treatments and effective vaccines. It was a pipe dream to expect this would just fade away. We have multiple examples of high vax rate geographies seeing major surges - blaming this on the unvaxxed is simply ignoring the reality of pandemics

The unvaccinated are not to blame for this pandemic, but in my hospital system they occupy 85+% of beds for people being treated for covid as a primary diagnosis. It doesn’t take a lot of deductive reasoning to see what’s happening.

Add to that they expose all the healthcare workers, patients, and their families to it, including many immunocompromised, and the frustration only grows.

 

[kiddiedoc]

To CAB's point - the ER sees this not only day after day, week after week but month after month, year after year, decade after decade, etc. Bad choices are a major cause of HC utilization yet the anger at the unvaxxed exceeds anything I've ever seen compared to the long history of bad choices leading to excess demands on the system.

I get that people are frustrated by the pandemic - to me the anger at the unvaxxed is just misplaced frustration. The reality is that year 2 of the pandemic is running at the same rate as Year 1 even with improved treatments and effective vaccines. It was a pipe dream to expect this would just fade away. We have multiple examples of high vax rate geographies seeing major surges - blaming this on the unvaxxed is simply ignoring the reality of pandemics

The truth of the matter appears to be that this thing is going to continue until we have ample collective immunity. The wild card is the variants escaping vaccine protection. Thankfully, naturally-acquired immunity is holding up, for now. As painful at it is, that will be the endpoint, unless a better vaccine or therapeutic is developed.

 

[volinbham]

The unvaccinated are not to blame for this pandemic, but in my hospital system they occupy 85+% of beds for people being treated for covid as a primary diagnosis. It doesn’t take a lot of deductive reasoning to see what’s happening.

Add to that they expose all the healthcare workers, patients, and their families to it, including many immunocompromised, and the frustration only grows.

so they represent 85% of those being treated for Covid as a primary diagnosis - what % of beds does that account for?

glad to see you disagree with the official assessment of our government that this is a "pandemic of the unvaccinated"

 

[volinbham]

The truth of the matter appears to be that this thing is going to continue until we have ample collective immunity. The wild card is the variants escaping vaccine protection. Thankfully, naturally-acquired immunity is holding up, for now. As painful at it is, that will be the endpoint, unless a better vaccine or therapeutic is developed.

I see places like Israel and more recently Washington state as examples of high vaccination rates not correlating to rate of infection and ultimately in the case of Washington, deaths from Covid.

The Delta variant threw a monkey wrench into the works and that was not a result of the unvaxxed.

 

[OHvol40]

so they represent 85% of those being treated for Covid as a primary diagnosis - what % of beds does that account for?

glad to see you disagree with the official assessment of our government that this is a "pandemic of the unvaccinated"

The % of beds is not a static number, but they currently account for every covid+ designated unit bed. We just turned two storage rooms into covid+ patient rooms.

It’s not a pandemic of the unvaccinated, it’s a pandemic in which the majority of the seriously ill are unvaccinated, and a pandemic being exacerbated by the unvaccinated.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

The unvaccinated (who are not otherwise CONCLUSIVELY inoculated) that have “done the research” and “evaluated their risk” need to stop showing up at the ED with shortness of breath and sudden loss of taste & smell. You evaluated your risk, now keep your a** at home and take cough syrup and leave the ED beds for old ladies who broke their hips and heart attacks.

And this right here proves you aren’t in the medical field. Your lies have been exposed.

 

[Septic]

And this right here proves you aren’t in the medical field. Your lies have been exposed.

Lol BOT, gatekeeper of the medical professional opinions.