Tennessee Not A Blip On The Radar

#76
#76
VKAman said:
I can't wait. SUCH a high probability of success. We might even be able to come within 10 points of beating Stanford!!!!!!
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Or... considering the tremendous talent gap between UT and UF now and the competitiveness of the game... The Vols might start actually winning against the top tier on a regular basis.

The key is finding talent. If it is talent that Rivals and everyone else has found and is clamouring over then fine. If it is a bunch of Montori Hughes' and Patrick Willis'... then that's fine too.
 
#77
#77
Yeah, forget Janzen Jackson. Dontavious Sapp is where it's at. I'm so glad he'll be around for 5 years.
 
#78
#78
sjt18 said:
I like Dooley but I am not convinced yet.

I am convinced that your assessment and any like it are premature.

Dooley, like Kiffin, has a plan that he believes in. Those plans are nearly opposites. I would argue that the goals of the two individuals were nearly opposite too. Dooley wants to build a program and stay around winning games for a long time. He has a vested interest in not only finding talent but finding guys who will not embarrass the school, flunk out, or get kicked off. Kiffin wanted to win fast, punch his ticket, then take his "dream job"... he really didn't care what happened to UT long term. He wanted guys who would make him look good NOW. He was willing to bend or even break the rules to get those players.

Dooley may fail. He may succeed. It is clear that he's determined to do it different from everyone else regardless.

FTR, there is no basis yet to say this staff can or cannot coach. The situation they inherited is worse than any I'm aware of at a major school since I've been watching CFB. No depth. No experience. Limited upperclassman talent. New staff.
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good post
 
#79
#79
VKAman said:
Because you're always so far up on your moral high horse that you continually start arguments that don't make any sense...
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Another strawman? What you just posted has absolutely nothing to do with the argument. As far as moral high horses... you might want to check the mirror. You seem to do ALOT of general condemnations for someone so sensitive about moral high horses.

So when you REALLY need playmakers, go after the 2-3*s. That's how you win championships. Look at all that Oregon success.
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So when you really need playmakers, go find guys who can make plays and that you can feel fairly confident about concerning character/academics... whether Rivals thinks so or not.

Loften and Dixon might well be helping right now...

Abrams-Ward might well have been a dominant player right now...

Ahmad Paige could be great right now...
 
#80
#80
VKAman said:
Yeah, forget Janzen Jackson. Dontavious Sapp is where it's at. I'm so glad he'll be around for 5 years.
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You don't even have the honesty to carry on a reasonable conversation... and you want to condemn others?

Who said to forget talent? Who said to forget JJ? Who said anything about Sapp?

Another Strawman Argument (read: deceptive/lie).
 
#81
#81
sjt18 said:
Or... considering the tremendous talent gap between UT and UF now and the competitiveness of the game... The Vols might start actually winning against the top tier on a regular basis.

The key is finding talent. If it is talent that Rivals and everyone else has found and is clamouring over then fine. If it is a bunch of Montori Hughes' and Patrick Willis'... then that's fine too.
Click to expand...

Seriously? You dog me for being excited about the future after a 12-10 loss at Bama and now you're calling THAT a moral victory against the "top tier?" And you're saying we would win if only we had more 2*s? Wow.......

Tell me who in the SEC has won with 2-3*s. Actually, just tell me someone who found "a bunch" of Hughes's and Willis's in the same class. You might find one or two per class. No one makes an entire class out of 2-3*s and wins the SEC...
 
#82
#82
VKAman said:
Yeah, forget Janzen Jackson. Dontavious Sapp is where it's at. I'm so glad he'll be around for 5 years.
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Janzen is not exactly the best name to use in your argument, as he has had two close encounters with being kicked off..... maybe Berry would be a better choice

and how about instead of running down Sapp, you hope he emerges as a solid contributor, and also realize that we are extremely lucky to have him on the team considering how few we have on scholarship and how hard it was to get guys to commit considering we had a new staff with about three weeks til NSD
 
#83
#83
sjt18 said:
Another strawman? What you just posted has absolutely nothing to do with the argument. As far as moral high horses... you might want to check the mirror. You seem to do ALOT of general condemnations for someone so sensitive about moral high horses.



So when you really need playmakers, go find guys who can make plays and that you can feel fairly confident about concerning character/academics... whether Rivals thinks so or not.

Loften and Dixon might well be helping right now...

Abrams-Ward might well have been a dominant player right now...

Ahmad Paige could be great right now...
Click to expand...

Who have I been condemning?

Loften is coming here. Most of the rest suck. Are you saying we should have stopped recruiting the best player in our 2011 class from the beginning and gone after some 2*s instead?
 
#84
#84
sjt18 said:
You don't even have the honesty to carry on a reasonable conversation... and you want to condemn others?

Who said to forget talent? Who said to forget JJ? Who said anything about Sapp?

Another Strawman Argument (read: deceptive/lie).
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It's just funny how you say I'm the one on a moral high horse and condemning people, not you, and then in the next breath you call me a liar for no particular reason. Sometimes I wonder if you're this hypocritical on purpose.
 
#85
#85
VKAman said:
Seriously? You dog me for being excited about the future after a 12-10 loss at Bama and now you're calling THAT a moral victory against the "top tier?"
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No. I dog you for hanging on to Kiffin like some jilted prom date.

IIRC, I have said that CLK was a first rate playcaller and schemer. The only thing I would question about that game was the decision to try Lincoln rather than giving JC another shot to get them closer.
And you're saying we would win if only we had more 2*s? Wow.......
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Nope. Not what I said. You have a real problem with either reading comprehension or honesty.

Tell me who in the SEC has won with 2-3*s. Actually, just tell me someone who found "a bunch" of Hughes's and Willis's in the same class. You might find one or two per class. No one makes an entire class out of 2-3*s and wins the SEC...
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No one yet has gone into FL, LA, AL, CA, OH, TX,... and taken enough of their top tier talent to win a BCS title within the last 10 years.

You know the definition of insanity, right? How much more insane to keep doing it the same way as EVERYONE else when EVERYONE else is also failing?

Dooley is trying a different way. He may fail. He may succeed. But he isn't insanely trying to do what has categorically proven to fail.
 
#86
#86
kjennin3 said:
Janzen is not exactly the best name to use in your argument, as he has had two close encounters with being kicked off..... maybe Berry would be a better choice

and how about instead of running down Sapp, you hope he emerges as a solid contributor, and also realize that we are extremely lucky to have him on the team considering how few we have on scholarship and how hard it was to get guys to commit considering we had a new staff with about three weeks til NSD
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No, genius, that was my exact point. Jackson is the kind of player sjt is suggesting we stop recruiting in favor of more 3*s. He's also the most talented player on our defense.

Are you kidding me? Sapp is lucky we were dumb enough to offer him. Had we not, he'd be playing at ECU. We're "lucky" to have those guys? Make a dumber statement please...
 
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#87
#87
VKAman said:
It's just funny how you say I'm the one on a moral high horse and condemning people, not you, and then in the next breath you call me a liar for no particular reason. Sometimes I wonder if you're this hypocritical on purpose.
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I said you lied because you keep lying by attempting to use straw men or distort what I have posted into something I didn't post... but that is more convenient for you to argue against.

If you don't want to be called out for being dishonest or lying then be more careful not to be dishonest or lie.
 
#89
#89
VKAman said:
No, genius, that was my exact point. Jackson is the kind of player sjt is suggesting we stop recruiting in favor of more 3*s. He's also the most talented player on our defense.

Are you kidding me? Sapp is lucky we were dumb enough to offer him. Had we not, he'd be playing at ECU. We're "lucky" to have those guys? Make a dumber statement please...
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lol.... so you would have rather us not offered anyone? say something dumber, please
 
#90
#90
VKAman said:
Who have I been condemning?
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Me. You picked up right where you left off last time we had a conversation... come to think of it, didn't you say you weren't going to respond to me anymore?

Loften is coming here. Most of the rest suck. Are you saying we should have stopped recruiting the best player in our 2011 class from the beginning and gone after some 2*s instead?
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No. Didn't say that. But thanks for finally asking rather than putting words in my mouth.
 
#91
#91
VKAman said:
Jackson is the kind of player sjt is suggesting we stop recruiting in favor of more 3*s.
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Nope. Not suggesting any such thing. JJ was not a character risk as a recruit. He comes from a good family. IIRC, he didn't have any problems in HS and had good grades.

He's precisely the kind of guy UT should recruit regardless of "stars".
 
#92
#92
sjt18 said:
No. I dog you for hanging on to Kiffin like some jilted prom date.

IIRC, I have said that CLK was a first rate playcaller and schemer. The only thing I would question about that game was the decision to try Lincoln rather than giving JC another shot to get them closer. Nope. Not what I said. You have a real problem with either reading comprehension or honesty.



No one yet has gone into FL, LA, AL, CA, OH, TX,... and taken enough of their top tier talent to win a BCS title within the last 10 years.

You know the definition of insanity, right? How much more insane to keep doing it the same way as EVERYONE else when EVERYONE else is also failing?

Dooley is trying a different way. He may fail. He may succeed. But he isn't insanely trying to do what has categorically proven to fail.
Click to expand...

Kiffin's playcalling isn't even my point. It's just funny that you (or others like you) talk on and on about how there are no moral victories, and then pick a game where we got thoroughly dominated on the line of scrimmage against one of the worst teams Florida has fielded recently to prove your point about how 3*s can compete with the "top tier."

You make this way too complicated. Talent wins. When did we win our last national title? Oh, right, when we were insanely talented. If freaking Fulmer could find enough players in Georgia and elsewhere, why can't anyone else? You're acting like my idea has been proven wrong, when it's been proven right EVERY SINGLE YEAR that the teams with the best players win.
 
#93
#93
First&Tenn said:
If they have character/academic issues? Yes.

It doesn't matter how good they are if they don't make it in or get kicked off of the team. NuKeese is a perfect example of this. He was a high risk/high reward player, and (unfortunately) we never saw any real reward. With only 65 on the roster, I hope our coaching staff is getting guys we can count on to be here 3 years from now. Our attrition rates for the last few Fulmer classes and the Kiffin class are largely responsible for the current state of the program.
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You make it sound like these guys are walking around with a sign around their necks that reads, "I Have Character Issues". As this other poster is pointing out, it's not always quite so easy to identify which recruits have character issues and which ones don't. A bunch of posters here like to post that all of UT's 3-star guys are "high-character" guys, but that's mostly just wishful thinking and rationalization for why our coaching staff can't land more highly recruited players.
 
#94
#94
Doolittle 1720 said:
How about Fla 3* with no offer from Fla? Should we take them?
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If that is the best player without character issues that you can get at a position of need, then absolutely yes.

sjt18 said:
With a full roster, it is a better risk to take. When you cannot reach 85 with your next full class... you have to measure your risks more.
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I'm starting to think that some of the folks who have inhabited this forum lately do not understand this concept. I guess they think that there is a posse of unappreciated, misunderstood 5* gangstas out there who Dooley could sign and suddenly have talent enough to knock out Oregon, Bama and UF next year.
 
#95
#95
sjt18 said:
I said you lied because you keep lying by attempting to use straw men or distort what I have posted into something I didn't post... but that is more convenient for you to argue against.

If you don't want to be called out for being dishonest or lying then be more careful not to be dishonest or lie.
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See, I can do this too. You're a liar. And if you don't want me to keep calling you a liar, well, there's nothing I can do about it...just stop lying all the dang time.
 
#97
#97
sjt18 said:
Another strawman? What you just posted has absolutely nothing to do with the argument. As far as moral high horses... you might want to check the mirror. You seem to do ALOT of general condemnations for someone so sensitive about moral high horses.



So when you really need playmakers, go find guys who can make plays and that you can feel fairly confident about concerning character/academics... whether Rivals thinks so or not.

Loften and Dixon might well be helping right now...

Abrams-Ward might well have been a dominant player right now...

Ahmad Paige could be great right now...
Click to expand...

I disagree. We don't JUST need warm bodies. We need warm bodies that can actually play. They need to be able to step in and play from day 1 if at all possible. 3-star guys aren't going to do that. All of you want to talk about getting 3-star guys and coaching them up. That's fine, but the 3-star guy that gets coached up needs to be the exception and not the rule because 3-star guys don't end up being star players as often as 4-star and 5-star guys, and the upper tier SEC competition is loading their teams with 4 and 5-star guys.

Just landing a bunch of unspectacular but solid guys that will fill out an 85-man roster is not going to work here. That will set us up for a lot more beatdowns in the future.
 
#98
#98
sjt18 said:
Me. You picked up right where you left off last time we had a conversation... come to think of it, didn't you say you weren't going to respond to me anymore?
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Uh, no...actually, one of the last times we talked, you jumped in on some recruiting conversation and made yourself look like an idiot for about 10 posts before you realized you had completely misunderstood the conversation and left.

But no, what you're claiming never happened. OMG you must be a LIAR!!!!!!!!!!
 
#99
#99
Vol423 said:
I disagree. We don't JUST need warm bodies. We need warm bodies that can actually play. They need to be able to step in and play from day 1 if at all possible. 3-star guys aren't going to do that. All of you want to talk about getting 3-star guys and coaching them up. That's fine, but the 3-star guy that gets coached up needs to be the exception and not the rule because 3-star guys don't end up being star players as often as 4-star and 5-star guys, and the upper tier SEC competition is loading their teams with 4 and 5-star guys.
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Yup. Bama is getting 4-5 star guys and coaching them up. We aren't going to keep up by using the Oregon approach.
 
#100
#100
Right now, the Vols cannot afford NCAA violations. The program is teetering on the edge of a lack of institutional control charge. Until Hamilton and Bruce Pearl are fired, or go many, many years without any further incident, that is just the way it is. If Dooley can create an attractive enough situation to lure solid citizen elite prospects to come to UTK then I am sure that he will take as many as he can get. Until that day arrives, he has to have guys who will (1) qualify academically, (2) be able to provide depth by playing quality reps at positions of need, and (3) not violate NCAA rules.
 
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