Tennessee Not A Blip On The Radar

#101
#101
Vol423 said:
I disagree. We don't JUST need warm bodies. We need warm bodies that can actually play. They need to be able to step in and play from day 1 if at all possible. 3-star guys aren't going to do that. All of you want to talk about getting 3-star guys and coaching them up. That's fine, but the 3-star guy that gets coached up needs to be the exception and not the rule because 3-star guys don't end up being star players as often as 4-star and 5-star guys, and the upper tier SEC competition is loading their teams with 4 and 5-star guys.
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If I am not mistaken, it is also okay to coach up 4* and 5* players, and the upside is greater. Some posters on here expect all our 3* players to be coached up to 5* and compete with 4* and 5* at other sec schools because at other schools they don't coach their players up.
 
#102
#102
VKAman said:
Yup. Bama is getting 4-5 star guys and coaching them up. We aren't going to keep up by using the Oregon approach.
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haha...are you seriously comparing our recruiting to Bama's? do you realistically think we should be recruiting on the same level as them right now?
 
#103
#103
sjt18 said:
Nope. Not suggesting any such thing. JJ was not a character risk as a recruit. He comes from a good family. IIRC, he didn't have any problems in HS and had good grades.

He's precisely the kind of guy UT should recruit regardless of "stars".
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Pretty sure Ambles had more "problems" in HS than Darren Myles did...should we have blocked him from coming here?
 
#104
#104
Vol423 said:
You make it sound like these guys are walking around with a sign around their necks that reads, "I Have Character Issues". As this other poster is pointing out, it's not always quite so easy to identify which recruits have character issues and which ones don't. A bunch of posters here like to post that all of UT's 3-star guys are "high-character" guys, but that's mostly just wishful thinking and rationalization for why our coaching staff can't land more highly recruited players.
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With the information that is available to recruiters these days, its very easy to look at recruits' histories to come to a fairly educated guess on character.

"Well this guy never goes to class, when I met him, he had a severe attitude problem, and he absolutely dots the "I" in team. Naw, no problem here!!!"
:eek:k:
 
#105
#105
VKAman said:
Yup. Bama is getting 4-5 star guys and coaching them up. We aren't going to keep up by using the Oregon approach.
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We're not going to be comepting with Bama in a meaningful way for a long time. Right now the Vols should legitimately be categorized in the bottom half of the division. They need to be worried about competing with Kentucky, SC and UGA over the next few years. Building a roster that can comete with UF and Bama, assuming neither of those schools starts a downward cycle, is going to take the better part of a decade.
 
#106
#106
VolunteerHillbilly said:
Right now, the Vols cannot afford NCAA violations. The program is teetering on the edge of a lack of institutional control charge. Until Hamilton and Bruce Pearl are fired, or go many, many years without any further incident, that is just the way it is. If Dooley can create an attractive enough situation to lure solid citizen elite prospects to come to UTK then I am sure that he will take as many as he can get. Until that day arrives, he has to have guys who will (1) qualify academically, (2) be able to provide depth by playing quality reps at positions of need, and (3) not violate NCAA rules.
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3 is the most important. Pretty sure the NCAA isn't knocking on Florida's door for having too many players arrested.
 
#107
#107
kjennin3 said:
haha...are you seriously comparing our recruiting to Bama's? do you realistically think we should be recruiting on the same level as them right now?
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We should at least be trying if we ever again expect to compete, and I honestly can't see that right now. Not being on anyone's radar gives me reason for concern.
 
#108
#108
If everybody had made it into school and performed at their capabilities for the 2007 class, which was ranked 3rd nationally btw, we would have a roster full of awesomeness! You can look at that class and its nothing but 4* and 5*'s. What good are they now if they don't perform or even make it into school?
 
#109
#109
VolunteerHillbilly said:
Right now, the Vols cannot afford NCAA violations. The program is teetering on the edge of a lack of institutional control charge. Until Hamilton and Bruce Pearl are fired, or go many, many years without any further incident, that is just the way it is. If Dooley can create an attractive enough situation to lure solid citizen elite prospects to come to UTK then I am sure that he will take as many as he can get. Until that day arrives, he has to have guys who will (1) qualify academically, (2) be able to provide depth by playing quality reps at positions of need, and (3) not violate NCAA rules.
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So, you're trying to say that no team can land 4-star and 5-star guys without committing NCAA violations?
 
#110
#110
Kevinyaheard said:
With the information that is available to recruiters these days, its very easy to look at recruits' histories to come to a fairly educated guess on character.

"Well this guy never goes to class, when I met him, he had a severe attitude problem, and he absolutely dots the "I" in team. Naw, no problem here!!!"
:eek:k:
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Oh, really? Then the almighty Phil Fulmer that everybody on here wants to claim was purer than new fallen snow was INTENTIONALLY loading our entire team with a bunch of low character guys for the last ten years? He must have been - after all, this information is common knowledge.
 
#111
#111
sjt18 said:
Nope. Not suggesting any such thing. JJ was not a character risk as a recruit. He comes from a good family. IIRC, he didn't have any problems in HS and had good grades.

He's precisely the kind of guy UT should recruit regardless of "stars".
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Eric Gordon had extremely questionable grades...should we have just not taken the risk and ignored the guy who's now our best corner?
 
#112
#112
Doolittle 1720 said:
We should at least be trying if we ever again expect to compete, and I honestly can't see that right now. Not being on anyone's radar gives me reason for concern.
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what makes you think we are not trying? and these fives star guys are the elite of the elite... coaches have been talking to them since they were freshman in hs, developing relationships, and so on... our guys havent had nearly the interaction as the other guys have... and if you think three coaches in three years doesnt turn some guys off, then you would be mistaken
 
#113
#113
Vol423 said:
Oh, really? Then the almighty Phil Fulmer that everybody on here wants to claim was purer than new fallen snow was INTENTIONALLY loading our entire team with a bunch of low character guys for the last ten years? He must have been - after all, this information is common knowledge.
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I think that Philip Fulmer took alot more chances than he should have honestly. Hey smart guy, why do you think they call it the FULMER CUP?:crazy::crazy::crazy:
 
#114
#114
Fijivol72 said:
this staff has shown me nothing on the recruiting front, people keep saying how great they did last year and I keep telling people that Kiffin made the class because of EE's who could not transfer if they wanted to. Can't coach, can't recruit, welcome to the WAC and I am not backing off of this position so bring it on all you Dooley lovers.
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How much success will it take for you to say" I was wrong?"
 
#115
#115
The thing about this is, many people who are fine with us loading up with 3*s also believe we'll win something meaningful in the near future. If we can't compete on the trail with the UFs and Bamas, we can't compete on the field.
 
#116
#116
Kevinyaheard said:
I think that Philip Fulmer took alot more chances than he should have honestly. Hey smart guy, why do you think they call it the FULMER CUP?:crazy::crazy::crazy:
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Because they were Florida grads and they sure as hell weren't going to name it the Florida Cup.
 
#117
#117
volwarrior33 said:
The thing about this is, many people who are fine with us loading up with 3*s also believe we'll win something meaningful in the near future. If we can't compete on the trail with the UFs and Bamas, we can't compete on the field.
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We almost beat Florida though! Just a few more 3*s and we'd be like Oregon!
 
#118
#118
VKAman said:
Eric Gordon had extremely questionable grades...should we have just not taken the risk and ignored the guy who's now our best corner?
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I'm not just saying poor grades, I'm saying a mixture of things. Guys can't help it if they aren't that bright, but if they just don't go to class and have people take their tests its a totally different animal. How smart will it look if he gets kicked off the team for grade issues??
 
#119
#119
volwarrior33 said:
The thing about this is, many people who are fine with us loading up with 3*s also believe we'll win something meaningful in the near future. If we can't compete on the trail with the UFs and Bamas, we can't compete on the field.
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Absolutely true.
 
#120
#120
Vol423 said:
So, you're trying to say that no team can land 4-star and 5-star guys without committing NCAA violations?
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I'm saying you don't go after the Bryce Browns of the world when you are under severe NCAA scrutiny. Take all the stand up 5* kids you can get, but if you can't get any don't risk the future of the program for 2 or 3 prospects. Even assuming that there are some elite prospects with questionable enough character issues that the marquee programs will not offer them, I seriously doubt that UTK is going to land enough of them to close the talent gap. It's better to rebuild slow and steady. Restore the program to a level where you don't have to sweat games against Kentucky and VU. Establish dominance over SC and UGA to position the Vols are a legtimate challenger to the Gators. Then think about what it'll take to win the conference. None of this is going to happen overnight. I'd say its a five or six year process if everything goes the right way.
 
#123
#123
VolunteerHillbilly said:
I'm saying you don't go after the Bryce Browns of the world when you are under severe NCAA scrutiny. Take all the stand up 5* kids you can get, but if you can't get any don't risk the future of the program for 2 or 3 prospects. Even assuming that there are some elite prospects with questionable enough character issues that the marquee programs will not offer them, I seriously doubt that UTK is going to land enough of them to close the talent gap. It's better to rebuild slow and steady. Restore the program to a level where you don't have to sweat games against Kentucky and VU. Establish dominance over SC and UGA to position the Vols are a legtimate challenger to the Gators. Then think about what it'll take to win the conference. None of this is going to happen overnight. I'd say its a five or six year process if everything goes the right way.
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There's a difference between taking risks on guys with questionable character/grades and outright cheating to get them. Only one of those two things will get you in real trouble with the NCAA.
 
#124
#124
Doolittle 1720 said:
We should at least be trying if we ever again expect to compete, and I honestly can't see that right now. Not being on anyone's radar gives me reason for concern.
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As long as the coaches are signing the best players that they can get who will get into school and not pose an unneccesary risk of breaking NCAA rules then they are trying. Do you really think that the staff is blowing off 5* prospects because they just want to sign a bunch of 2-3* guys to show that they can do it the hard way?

volwarrior33 said:
The thing about this is, many people who are fine with us loading up with 3*s also believe we'll win something meaningful in the near future. If we can't compete on the trail with the UFs and Bamas, we can't compete on the field.
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We will not compete with Bama and UF for a long time unless it falls under the blind squirrel finding a nut category. The sooner you accept this, the better it will be for your cardiovascular health.
 
#125
#125
VKAman said:
There's a difference between taking risks on guys with questionable character/grades and outright cheating to get them. Only one of those two things will get you in real trouble with the NCAA.
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This is true, only cheating will get you in trouble with the NCAA. Although, take too many chances on those kind of guys and it will get you #3, #9, and #10 ranked recruiting classes in 4 years while you fight for mediocrity and a near .500 record over that span.... At least we aren't in TROUBLE THOUGH!!! :p
 
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