Tennessee Not A Blip On The Radar

[NashVol11]

This is true, only cheating will get you in trouble with the NCAA. Although, take too many chances on those kind of guys and it will get you #3, #9, and #10 ranked recruiting classes in 4 years while you fight for mediocrity and a near .500 record over that span.... At least we aren't in TROUBLE THOUGH!!!

The vast majority of the blame for that belongs on Fulmer, who stopped evaluating players and started straight-up Rivals watching. At least Kiffin could tell which 4*s (Aubrey Phillips, Tajh Boyd, etc.) were trash.

 

[Volnidas]

I like Dooley but I am not convinced yet.

I am convinced that your assessment and any like it are premature.

Dooley, like Kiffin, has a plan that he believes in. Those plans are nearly opposites. I would argue that the goals of the two individuals were nearly opposite too. Dooley wants to build a program and stay around winning games for a long time. He has a vested interest in not only finding talent but finding guys who will not embarrass the school, flunk out, or get kicked off. Kiffin wanted to win fast, punch his ticket, then take his "dream job"... he really didn't care what happened to UT long term. He wanted guys who would make him look good NOW. He was willing to bend or even break the rules to get those players.

Dooley may fail. He may succeed. It is clear that he's determined to do it different from everyone else regardless.

FTR, there is no basis yet to say this staff can or cannot coach. The situation they inherited is worse than any I'm aware of at a major school since I've been watching CFB. No depth. No experience. Limited upperclassman talent. New staff.

He's really not doing anything different. Coaches have tried the whole recruiting 3 stars and coaching them up strategy in the SEC, it just hasn't worked. Mississippi State and Arkansas have been abiding by this strategy forever how many SEC championships have they won?

 

[NashVol11]

He's really not doing anything different. Coaches have tried the whole recruiting 3 stars and coaching them up strategy in the SEC, it just hasn't worked. Mississippi State and Arkansas have been abiding by this strategy forever how many SEC championships have they won?

Crazy talk. Dooley is starting a revolution.

 

[kjennin3]

He's really not doing anything different. Coaches have tried the whole recruiting 3 stars and coaching them up strategy in the SEC, it just hasn't worked. Mississippi State and Arkansas have been abiding by this strategy forever how many SEC championships have they won?

i just dont understand these statements...people act as if Dooley is only recruiting three stars and nothing else... people also act like we are the same program we were in the 90s.. program stability is kind of a big deal to these kids, and that is something we dont have right now...give Dooley a year or two to create long term relationships with kids before you determine exactly what his recruiting srategy is

 

[Volnidas]

i just dont understand these statements...people act as if Dooley is only recruiting three stars and nothing else... people also act like we are the same program we were in the 90s.. program stability is kind of a big deal to these kids, and that is something we dont have right now...give Dooley a year or two to create long term relationships with kids before you determine exactly what his recruiting srategy is

I feel even with instability Dooley should be doing a better job recruiting then he has. We still have a lot more to offer then Ole Miss who by the way is ranked 10th on rivals. But for the reason you mentioned I'm willing to give him 3 years to prove himself, but most great recruiters prove they're great recruiters as soon as they step on campus. Dooley might be different we'll see.

 

[kjennin3]

I feel even with instability Dooley should be doing a better job recruiting then he has. We still have a lot more to offer then Ole Miss who by the way is ranked 10th on rivals. But for the reason you mentioned I'm willing to give him 3 years to prove himself, but most great recruiters prove they're great recruiters as soon as they step on campus. Dooley might be different we'll see.

i get what you are saying... i just dont think its as dire as people make it out to be...wish we had UF's class or Bama's... but just dont think its realistic right now...but we will see in three years if Dooley was the right hire or not... and no matter how much praise or complaining about him will change that

 

[Volnidas]

i get what you are saying... i just dont think its as dire as people make it out to be...wish we had UF's class or Bama's... but just dont think its realistic right now...but we will see in three years if Dooley was the right hire or not... and no matter how much praise or complaining about him will change that

Agreed that we can't do anything now but give Dooley 3 years. Wish we could fast forward and know if he's the right guy, so we could either be happy with him or move on. But I do think our recruiting is in a dire situation right now. I'm not asking for a Bama of UF type class which would be ridiculous, but I don't think it's ridiculous to expect a Auburn, Ole Miss or UGA type class at the moment.

 

[kjennin3]

Agreed that we can't do anything now but give Dooley 3 years. Wish we could fast forward and know if he's the right guy, so we could either be happy with him or move on. But I do think our recruiting is in a dire situation right now. I'm not asking for a Bama of UF type class which would be ridiculous, but I don't think it's ridiculous to expect a Auburn, Ole Miss or UGA type class at the moment.

just curious, and not trying to hate at all, what guys that are committed do you not really like... im not crazy about Harris, Power, and Young (when he commits), but thats about it...i think everyone else is either a pretty high quality prospect or at least fills a need position and will contribute in a few years

 

[Volnidas]

just curious, and not trying to hate at all, what guys that are committed do you not really like... im not crazy about Harris, Power, and Young (when he commits), but thats about it...i think everyone else is either a pretty high quality prospect or at least fills a need position and will contribute in a few years

I would actually name the same 3 you just did. The reason I'm so worked up today about our recruiting class is because we have decided to take Young's commitment. I wasn't thrilled with class, but I was happy with til today. If we don't count Young we had 15 commits, which left us with 10 spots. I believed we were going to be every selective with those 10 spots and fill them with better players then Young. I feel like Buie and Seymour and both better players then Young, why not see if Buie and Seymour commit somewhere else before we offer him. We could have gotten Young later in the process if we struck out with other guys.

 

[kjennin3]

I would actually name the same 3 you just did. The reason I'm so worked up today about our recruiting class is because we have decided to take Young's commitment. I wasn't thrilled with class, but I was happy with til today. If we don't count Young we had 15 commits, which left us with 10 spots. I believed we were going to be every selective with those 10 spots and fill them with better players then Young. I feel like Buie and Seymour and both better players then Young, why not see if Buie and Seymour commit somewhere else before we offer him. We could have gotten Young later in the process if we struck out with other guys.

totally agree on Seymour or Buie...like them alot more than Young..but hope the coaches show me why they are collegiate coaches and why im on a message board

 

[Vols188]

I think we will be on the top guys list in a couple of years

 

[Volnidas]

totally agree on Seymour or Buie...like them alot more than Young..but hope the coaches show me why they are collegiate coaches and why im on a message board

I hope the coaches prove me wrong and make me look like an idiot, but I just can't over look the fact that not a single SEC coach thought Young was worthy of a offer. Those coaches also get payed to evaluate talent. Which means Dooley is either better at spotting talent than the other SEC coaches or he's taking talent that isn't SEC caliber.

 

[Vol Main]

I see the coaching staff as accepting that 5* aren't coming this year and so the goal is to get 27 guys who can qualify and ten to fifteen of which can play. /QUOTE]

I disagree with this perception. My take is that Dooley regards every commit as someone who will actually contribute to a winning team effort on the field. He'll want some of the super-talented players. He will also want every player to to be capable of meeting some need and fulfilling some role. I really don't think that Dooley will recruit anyone without believing he'll play.

 

[sjt18]

Kiffin's playcalling isn't even my point. It's just funny that you (or others like you) talk on and on about how there are no moral victories,

Please cite where I said there were no "moral victories". I think there ARE losses that you can build off of and losses that do nothing but damage. A young UT team that is really outclassed physically that is in the position to beat UF late and does not quit has accomplished more and has a better place to build from than the one that collapsed vs Oregon.

and then pick a game where we got thoroughly dominated on the line of scrimmage against one of the worst teams Florida has fielded recently to prove your point about how 3*s can compete with the "top tier."

UT wasn't thoroughly dominated on the LOS. In fact, that as much as anything is what kept it close. Yes they were beaten at times on both sides of the ball but UT contained UF's run game and protected Simms enough.

You make this way too complicated. Talent wins.

No. I really don't. You have to have talent to win. You have to have coaching to win. AND when there is little or no gap in those between you and your opponent you have to have intangibles.

YOU have a habit of complicating what I say. I have not said that talent is not required to win. I HAVE said there are other ways to find talent than to take out a subscription on Rivals.

When did we win our last national title? Oh, right, when we were insanely talented. If freaking Fulmer could find enough players in Georgia and elsewhere, why can't anyone else?

He found them without the benefit of Rivals, Scout, ESPN, etc, etc, etc.

You're acting like my idea has been proven wrong, when it's been proven right EVERY SINGLE YEAR that the teams with the best players win.

No. I have stated something very clearly that is very true. In the last 10 years, all of the BCS champions have come from states with high levels of HSFB and high concentrations of talent. Schools from outside those states have tried in vain to raid those states for enough talent to beat teams from within those states.

Eight teams have won at least one NC since 01. Over 110 have failed. Roughly 62 BCS level schools have tried to raid states like FL, LA, TX, and CA for the talent to win a NC. ALL have failed.

Have I now been clear enough? Do you think that 62 teams over 10 years trying to do the same thing but failing isn't enough proof to take a step back and say, "Hey, maybe I should try something a little different."?

 

[sjt18]

See, I can do this too. You're a liar. And if you don't want me to keep calling you a liar, well, there's nothing I can do about it...just stop lying all the dang time.

You can do whatever you like... that doesn't make it true. You continually and apparently intentionally twist my words so you can make successful points. Any way you cut it... that is dishonest.

 

[sjt18]

I disagree. We don't JUST need warm bodies. We need warm bodies that can actually play. They need to be able to step in and play from day 1 if at all possible. 3-star guys aren't going to do that.

I didn't say anything about getting just warm bodies... good grief, the disease is spreading.

Three star players with talent step in and play just like 5* players with talent.

King did. Bohannon did. Fulton has. Propst is getting quality PT on special teams. Z Rogers, A Johnson, S Frazier,... all contributed as Fr. All 3* players.

All of you want to talk about getting 3-star guys and coaching them up. That's fine, but the 3-star guy that gets coached up needs to be the exception and not the rule because 3-star guys don't end up being star players as often as 4-star and 5-star guys,

That isn't true. They don't become stars at as high of a percentage but just as many if not more becomes great players.

and the upper tier SEC competition is loading their teams with 4 and 5-star guys.

True. So understand my point. TN isn't loaded with 4* and 5* players, right? TN and over 60 other BCS teams have tried, and failed, for 10 years to raid the states with lots of talent for enough talented players who could stay on the field to win a championship.

UT can keep trying it that way in hopes of the 1 in a million roll of the dice will be them or they can try to find a different way to get the talent needed to win. Regardless of Rivals or Scout rankings... there aren't alot of championship caliber/character 4-5* players leaving FL, TX, or CA to play their college football.

IOW's, the choice seems to be finding diamonds in the rough among the 3*'s and adding the higher rated players you can get or tryiing to sift through the that UF, FSU, Miami, Texas, USC, etc leave behind.

Just landing a bunch of unspectacular but solid guys that will fill out an 85-man roster is not going to work here. That will set us up for a lot more beatdowns in the future.

Oregon will probably be the 2nd best team UT faces this year. They haven't had a Rivals top 10 class in the last 5 years.

Three of their top 4 rushers were 3*.

Four of their top 5 receivers were 3*.

In their top 11 tacklers, the first 8 either 3* or 2*. The next 3 were 4*.

Starting OL: three 2*, one 3*, one 4*.

IF a coach can find the right players regardless of their recruiting svc love... they can build a championship caliber team.

 

[Volnidas]

I didn't say anything about getting just warm bodies... good grief, the disease is spreading.

Three star players with talent step in and play just like 5* players with talent.

King did. Bohannon did. Fulton has. Propst is getting quality PT on special teams. Z Rogers, A Johnson, S Frazier,... all contributed as Fr. All 3* players.

That isn't true. They don't become stars at as high of a percentage but just as many if not more becomes great players. True. So understand my point. TN isn't loaded with 4* and 5* players, right? TN and over 60 other BCS teams have tried, and failed, for 10 years to raid the states with lots of talent for enough talented players who could stay on the field to win a championship.

UT can keep trying it that way in hopes of the 1 in a million roll of the dice will be them or they can try to find a different way to get the talent needed to win. Regardless of Rivals or Scout rankings... there aren't alot of championship caliber/character 4-5* players leaving FL, TX, or CA to play their college football.

IOW's, the choice seems to be finding diamonds in the rough among the 3*'s and adding the higher rated players you can get or tryiing to sift through the that UF, FSU, Miami, Texas, USC, etc leave behind.


Oregon will probably be the 2nd best team UT faces this year. They haven't had a Rivals top 10 class in the last 5 years.

Three of their top 4 rushers were 3*.

Four of their top 5 receivers were 3*.

In their top 11 tacklers, the first 8 either 3* or 2*. The next 3 were 4*.

Starting OL: three 2*, one 3*, one 4*.

IF a coach can find the right players regardless of their recruiting svc love... they can build a championship caliber team.

UT has recruited with the big boys through out its history, which has led to quite a winning history. UT has recruited with the big boys in the past and it will in the future. I'm not willing to accept that we should just try and find diamonds from the leftovers that UF, Bama, Texas, UGA, OSU,etc have left for us. How many national championships has Oregon won with there strategy? Maybe a team can compete for a national championship once in a while with Oregon's strategy but to be annual contenders for the SEC and national championships you need to recruit top 10 classes consistently.

 

[sjt18]

UT has recruited with the big boys through out its history, which has led to quite a winning history. UT has recruited with the big boys in the past and it will in the future. I'm not willing to accept that we should just try and find diamonds from the leftovers that UF, Bama, Texas, UGA, OSU,etc have left for us.

That was part of Fulmer's decline. He went after the 4-5* leftovers and was burned multiple times by character issues.

How many national championships has Oregon won with there strategy?

None yet. Who is closer right now... Oregon or UT, USCe, Ole Miss, Oky St, etc?

Maybe a team can compete for a national championship once in a while with Oregon's strategy but to be annual contenders for the SEC and national championships you need to recruit top 10 classes consistently.

Then just accept your fate as a 2nd tier team until TN HSFB improves the level of competition enough to start producing lots of blue chip players. The schools within those big talent states have figured out how to lock down the vast majority of the best players. After they take 75%, everyone else fights over the scraps.

You guys keep putting an emphasis on top 10 recruiting classes. There are ALOT of talented players who never get noticed by Rivals or Scout. Check the NFL draft. Check all conference teams, etc.

There are good players... not just diamonds in the rough... but 'ready to play in the SEC as Freshman' good players who are rated 3*.

Talent is vital to win. But star ratings don't always fall on the right guys.

I will take King and give you Donald... I'll take D Moore and give you Paige... I'll take Poole and give you Coker... I'll even take Hughes and give you your choice of Bolden, Mapu, or Fisher. I'll take 2* Patrick Willis and give you Askew.

The point IS NOT that 4-5* players do not often succeed. They do. The point is they succeed for the same reason 2-3* players do- they have talent and turn it into ability.

 

[Volnidas]

That was part of Fulmer's decline. He went after the 4-5* leftovers and was burned multiple times by character issues. None yet. Who is closer right now... Oregon or UT, USCe, Ole Miss, Oky St, etc?

Then just accept your fate as a 2nd tier team until TN HSFB improves the level of competition enough to start producing lots of blue chip players. The schools within those big talent states have figured out how to lock down the vast majority of the best players. After they take 75%, everyone else fights over the scraps.

You guys keep putting an emphasis on top 10 recruiting classes. There are ALOT of talented players who never get noticed by Rivals or Scout. Check the NFL draft. Check all conference teams, etc.

There are good players... not just diamonds in the rough... but 'ready to play in the SEC as Freshman' good players who are rated 3*.

Talent is vital to win. But star ratings don't always fall on the right guys.

I will take King and give you Donald... I'll take D Moore and give you Paige... I'll take Poole and give you Coker... I'll even take Hughes and give you your choice of Bolden, Mapu, or Fisher. I'll take 2* Patrick Willis and give you Askew.

The point IS NOT that 4-5* players do not often succeed. They do. The point is they succeed for the same reason 2-3* players do- they have talent and turn it into ability.

We can't assume these 3 star guys won't have the same character issues. You talk about all these 3 stars that are SEC ready but what makes you think the 3 star guys Dooley is getting are SEC ready? I bet when teams like Mississippi State and Arkansas are filling their rosters with 3 stars their fans are probably thinking our coaches are getting the 3 stars that have SEC talent, they'll just coach them up and we'll win the SEC. Of course recruiting a bunch of 3 stars hasn't helped these team win the SEC, the teams winning the SEC are the teams with highly ranked classes. Also Majors landed highly ranked classes, Fulmer did it in the 90s and Kiffin did it his one year here and they weren't filled with 4 and 5 star players the other big boys didn't want there were plenty of players that many powerhouse programs wanted UT just happen to win the battle for them.

 

[bamacheats]

you are almost forty (at least) and your name references your fraternity from nearly 20 years ago....allsome

Don't forget he makes more money than all of us as well.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[sjt18]

We can't assume these 3 star guys won't have the same character issues.

I'm not. They may and worse. Dooley however seems to be making that a point of emphasis. I don't know what all methods they are using but somehow they are screeing guys on character and attitude.

You talk about all these 3 stars that are SEC ready but what makes you think the 3 star guys Dooley is getting are SEC ready?

Nothing. Most guys aren't ready regardless of their rating. I know people want immediate results and I do too. But some of these guys are going to be like the Oregon players that just smashed UT... guys who start contributing as Sophs or Jrs.

If some of the guys from last years class can step up, Martin/Walls return to form, the young players that are being thrown in the fire now keep developing, then UT will field a better team next fall without needing an abnormal number of '11 signees to play.

Some will. I still hope UT gets some guys like Couch, Arnett, Buie, et al who might contribute right away. But this year will be the low tide. The guys who are taking their lumps now will be much better next fall and so will their back ups.

I bet when teams like Mississippi State and Arkansas are filling their rosters with 3 stars their fans are probably thinking our coaches are getting the 3 stars that have SEC talent, they'll just coach them up and we'll win the SEC.

I doubt MSU thinks that. Arkansas fans do.

Of course recruiting a bunch of 3 stars hasn't helped these team win the SEC, the teams winning the SEC are the teams with highly ranked classes.

No. Of late, UF, Bama, and LSU have been winning the SEC. UGA also won a couple of times recently. When UT can do just what they do (keep the great players in state) then UT can put a winning team together like they do.

Also Majors landed highly ranked classes,

Ranked by who? Rivals started in 2001. I am not sure when Scout started but am relatively sure it wasn't while Majors was coaching. Coaches then and for most of the 90's did their own work.

Kiffin did it his one year here and they weren't filled with 4 and 5 star players the other big boys didn't want there were plenty of players that many powerhouse programs wanted UT just happen to win the battle for them.

Did what? Four of the 10 4-5* players UT signed this year came in AFTER CLK left DD with a sinking ship. He inherited 4 of the 10 4-5* players signed in 09 and ran off some others he didn't like. Three of the 6 he actually signed are already gone... two for being thugs.

 

[sjt18]

totally agree on Seymour or Buie...like them alot more than Young..but hope the coaches show me why they are collegiate coaches and why im on a message board

I think Buie is better than Young but Young's clips look better than Seymour to me even after I tried to account for the difference in competition.

Young just looks quicker and faster. Style is very similar.

 

[Kevinyaheard]

We can't assume these 3 star guys won't have the same character issues. You talk about all these 3 stars that are SEC ready but what makes you think the 3 star guys Dooley is getting are SEC ready? I bet when teams like Mississippi State and Arkansas are filling their rosters with 3 stars their fans are probably thinking our coaches are getting the 3 stars that have SEC talent, they'll just coach them up and we'll win the SEC. Of course recruiting a bunch of 3 stars hasn't helped these team win the SEC, the teams winning the SEC are the teams with highly ranked classes. Also Majors landed highly ranked classes, Fulmer did it in the 90s and Kiffin did it his one year here and they weren't filled with 4 and 5 star players the other big boys didn't want there were plenty of players that many powerhouse programs wanted UT just happen to win the battle for them.

Dude... if you take the 5 players away from Kiffin's class that are no longer here due to an assortment of issues, we barely have a top 25 class in 2009. I would be embarrassed to even look at last years!!!

 

[Volnidas]

I'm not. They may and worse. Dooley however seems to be making that a point of emphasis. I don't know what all methods they are using but somehow they are screeing guys on character and attitude. Nothing. Most guys aren't ready regardless of their rating. I know people want immediate results and I do too. But some of these guys are going to be like the Oregon players that just smashed UT... guys who start contributing as Sophs or Jrs.

If some of the guys from last years class can step up, Martin/Walls return to form, the young players that are being thrown in the fire now keep developing, then UT will field a better team next fall without needing an abnormal number of '11 signees to play.

Some will. I still hope UT gets some guys like Couch, Arnett, Buie, et al who might contribute right away. But this year will be the low tide. The guys who are taking their lumps now will be much better next fall and so will their back ups. I doubt MSU thinks that. Arkansas fans do. No. Of late, UF, Bama, and LSU have been winning the SEC. UGA also won a couple of times recently. When UT can do just what they do (keep the great players in state) then UT can put a winning team together like they do. Ranked by who? Rivals started in 2001. I am not sure when Scout started but am relatively sure it wasn't while Majors was coaching. Coaches then and for most of the 90's did their own work.

Did what? Four of the 10 4-5* players UT signed this year came in AFTER CLK left DD with a sinking ship. He inherited 4 of the 10 4-5* players signed in 09 and ran off some others he didn't like. Three of the 6 he actually signed are already gone... two for being thugs.

Thats what I thought that back in the day there were no rankings but I've read somewhere that Majors landed the number one class in the country, so I thought there probably was someone who ranked them. All I can say for certain by looking at what has happened over the years is that you have to recruit highly ranked classes to win the SEC. I'm not saying he has to have a top 10 class this year, but eventually he is going to have to start landing top 10 classes consistently if he plans on winning in the SEC and staying here long term.

 

[Kevinyaheard]

I think Buie is better than Young but Young's clips look better than Seymour to me even after I tried to account for the difference in competition.

Young just looks quicker and faster. Style is very similar.

This. I'm going to give Dooley the benefit of the doubt for now. I have faith in our coaching staff until they either prove or disprove themselves. In Lance I trust!!!