That's racist!

[volinbham]

You said it runs contrary to his point. I am still trying to see how that is so

In total, your argument is the equivalent if it happens to one, it happens to all. This is simply not the case. Progress has been made. But there is still a ways to go.

my point on CRT was your comment that physical appearance shouldn't determine outcomes. CRT claims that your physical appearance does indeed determine your outcomes. It was not in reference to Obama's statement.

my argument is not "if it happens to one" - it is the apparent contradiction in his statement that for others success resides on some unamed (but not inherent merit) factors yet he reached the heights of societal success and I'm betting he thinks it's because of his inherent merits. So it's not about what you suggest; it's the ego behind the statement of "well for me, it's because of me but for others it because of something else".

it smacks of a more egocentric version of Dick Gephardt's "winners of life's lottery" comment.

for the record I too believe there is more progress to be made but that doesn't validate the core tenets of CRT or the shift from equality to equity

 

[landscapingvol]

Obama was the ultimate snake charmer apparently, able to lull the ever vigilant white man into a false sense of security and even convincing him to vote for him. If white people had known he was actually black they would have sent him back to Kenya on a rocket. Is there nothing he can't do?

White people felt guilty about their inherent racism and the political class allowed a black man to be President. His campaign was funded by the wealth stolen from minorities

 

[BayVol7]

Obama was the ultimate snake charmer apparently, able to lull the ever vigilant white man into a false sense of security and even convincing him to vote for him. If white people had known he was actually black they would have sent him back to Kenya on a rocket. Is there nothing he can't do?

Um, the majority of white people didn’t vote for 44.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...in-obamas-presidential-elections-in-2-charts/

 

[volinbham]

Um, the majority of white people didn’t vote for 44.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...in-obamas-presidential-elections-in-2-charts/

don't believe DO claimed they did; and it was sarcasm

 

[BayVol7]

my point on CRT was your comment that physical appearance shouldn't determine outcomes. CRT claims that your physical appearance does indeed determine your outcomes. It was not in reference to Obama's statement.

My comment was in direct reference to his quote. He said too often, “...success or failure in this society so often is dictated not by anybody's inherent merits.” And again, CRT teaches race is a social construct, not that you wake up either privileged or oppressed because you wear your hat backwards. You are missing a level.

my argument is not "if it happens to one" - it is the apparent contradiction in his statement that for others success resides on some unamed (but not inherent merit) factors yet he reached the heights of societal success and I'm betting he thinks it's because of his inherent merits. So it's not about what you suggest; it's the ego behind the statement of "well for me, it's because of me but for others it because of something else".

it smacks of a more egocentric version of Dick Gephardt's "winners of life's lottery" comment.

for the record I too believe there is more progress to be made but that doesn't validate the core tenets of CRT or the shift from equality to equity

He said: “so often.” He did not say “always.“

 

[BayVol7]

don't believe DO claimed they did; and it was sarcasm

Ummm I am very clear at what DO* tried to do.
I think you should stick to our correspondence as it seems you’re having some trouble

 

[volinbham]

My comment was in direct reference to his quote. He said too often, “...success or failure in this society so often is dictated not by anybody's inherent merits.” And again, CRT teaches race is a social construct, not that you wake up either privileged or oppressed because you wear your hat backwards. You are missing a level.

He said: “so often.” He did not say “always.“

right - for him it was his inherent merit; for others...which was the gist of my comment but you took it as something else.

who on earth said it was how you wear your hat? That's a complete strawman; you are missing more than a level with that ridiculous line of argument. If you wake up black according to CRT you are oppressed - it is a physical characteristic.

 

[volinbham]

Ummm I am very clear at what DO* tried to do.
I think you should stick to our correspondence as it seems you’re having some trouble

you've misread virtually all of my comments but I'm the one having trouble.

 

[DancingOutlaw]

Um, the majority of white people didn’t vote for 44.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...in-obamas-presidential-elections-in-2-charts/

I've always found people with absolutely no sense of humor fascinating.

 

[BayVol7]

you've misread virtually all of my comments but I'm the one having trouble.

Didn’t we just rip through the two points you tried* to make
The convo has devolved into a convo on CRT, which actually gives credence to 44s and my argument

 

[volinbham]

Didn’t we just rip through the two points you trying to make
The convo has devolved into a convo on CRT, which actually gives credence to 44s and my argument

you were wrong on what I was saying WRT Obama - I assume this was an innocent mistake

you completely butchered my comments on CRT - the hat comment shows you can't counter the comments so went another route.

lesson learned for me.

 

[BayVol7]

you were wrong on what I was saying WRT Obama - I assume this was an innocent mistake

you completely butchered my comments on CRT - the hat comment shows you can't counter the comments so went another route.

lesson learned for me.

I was wrong?? You turned my quoted statement from 44 into a sweeping generalization. There was no contradiction after all.

Regarding your CRT point. I said outcomes should never be determined solely on physical appearance. You countered with....

Yet Critical Race Theory says otherwise. (bolded)

Which made very little sense. Now we are talking in circles it seems. Looks* like you have a few more lessons to learn

 

[volinbham]

I was wrong?? You turned my quoted statement from 44 into a sweeping generalization. There was no contradiction after all.

Regarding your CRT point. I said outcomes should never be determined solely on physical appearance. You countered with....

Which made very little sense. Now we are talking in circles it seems. Looks* like you have a few more lessons to learn

I didn't turn it into a sweeping generalization - it was a very specific observation about the speaker of the statement. YOU turned it into a "so you are saying..." which I was not. Unsure why that eludes you.

CRT in fact posits that your outcomes ARE determined by your physical appearance as represented by race. So yes, CRT disagrees with you (and I) that your physical appearance should have nothing to do with outcomes. Critical Theory in general (whether the race version or any number of other versions) is grounded in your particular place in society as the determinant of your outcomes.

 

[BayVol7]

the apparent contradiction in his statement that for others success resides on some unamed (but not inherent merit) factors yet he reached the heights of societal success and I'm betting he thinks it's because of his inherent merits.

^This is absolutely a generalization and an assumption ftr.

I said physical appearance should not dictate outcomes. I never said they do not

 

[volinbham]

^This is absolutely a generalization and an assumption ftr.

I said physical appearance should not dictate outcomes. I never said they do not

It is an assumption about his internal attribution of success vs what he thinks creates success for others - it is not a sweeping generalization. It was entirely about him and my assumption that his view of his own success may be at odds with his generalized statement. It was in not a generalization to other successful people or as you suggested me using a "if one can do it" argument.

CRT says that they do (not should or shouldn't but do) and that will always be true given different power structures and the natural division of oppressed and privileged. That's why I made the comment - you and I both think they should not but CRT says it is inherent in our differences.

 

[BayVol7]

It is an assumption about his internal attribution of success vs what he thinks creates success for others - it is not a sweeping generalization. It was entirely about him and my assumption that his view of his own success may be at odds with his generalized statement. It was in not a generalization to other successful people or as you suggested me using a "if one can do it" argument.

CRT says that they do (not should or shouldn't but do) and that will always be true given different power structures and the natural division of oppressed and privileged. That's why I made the comment - you and I both think they should not but CRT says it is inherent in our differences.

I disagree @ 1st paragraph but not worth the back and forth.
I am just happy you acknowledge there is more work to be done.
I can leave it there

 

[volinbham]

I disagree @ 1st paragraph but not worth the back and forth.
I am just happy you acknowledge there is more work to be done.
I can leave it there

you might not be happy to hear I think there's more work to be done regardless of race and an exclusive race focus is counter-productive.

 

[Weezer]

I disagree @ 1st paragraph but not worth the back and forth.
I am just happy you acknowledge there is more work to be done.
I can leave it there

It's humorous how you always seem to think you win the argument. You must be a woman. Probably someone's ex-wife.

 

[PEPPERJAX]

Or gay white male couples raising AA babies.

Yep!
Both of the ideas we came up with are better than anything Bayvol has ever suggested.

 

[hog88]

So let me get this right.....all racism will end and everyone will be equal when everyone has 2 parents at home?

Sigh, how is this not a propensity argument also btw

Racism will never end and all people will never be equal

 

[C-south]

Please explain @ bolded.

I look forward to the day you can strengthen your argument with much more evidence. @ 2nd point

Lol. You provide ZERO evidence to go along with the drivel you post. All you have is feelings on how people might have felt about someone because to you everything is racist.

 

[SamRebel35]

Sounds like you do not want it to Mr. Rebel

@ your other point: Obama made a powerful comment on CNN: “The single most important thing I learned... the line between success or failure in this society so often is dictated not by anybody's inherent merits."
Obama criticizes Republicans for embracing 2020 falsehoods
Obama criticizes Republicans for embracing 2020 falsehoods - CNNPolitics

Outcomes should never be determined on physical appearance. This is very much an issue whether you acknowledge it or not.

Nirvana is not for this world. As long as there are stupid people like you who think that race is the most important identifying trait about someone, there will be racism.

And outcomes should not (and are not) determined on physical appearance in this country. Who is blacker than Nigerians? Whose skin is physically darker than a Nigerians? Answer: almost nobody's. Why are 1st and 2nd generation Nigerians flourishing in America if their outcomes are predicated on their skin color?

 

[LouderVol]

Sounds like you do not want it to Mr. Rebel

@ your other point: Obama made a powerful comment on CNN: “The single most important thing I learned... the line between success or failure in this society so often is dictated not by anybody's inherent merits."
Obama criticizes Republicans for embracing 2020 falsehoods
Obama criticizes Republicans for embracing 2020 falsehoods - CNNPolitics

Outcomes should never be determined on physical appearance. This is very much an issue whether you acknowledge it or not.

I agree. As a fat ugly person I am judged far too often based on my appearance.

 

[Rickyvol77]

Yep!
Both of the ideas we came up with are better than anything Bayvol has ever suggested.

At least their crime rate would be less

 

[landscapingvol]

Nirvana is not for this world. As long as there are stupid people like you who think that race is the most important identifying trait about someone, there will be racism.

And outcomes should not (and are not) determined on physical appearance in this country. Who is blacker than Nigerians? Whose skin is physically darker than a Nigerians? Answer: almost nobody's. Why are 1st and 2nd generation Nigerians flourishing in America if their outcomes are predicated on their skin color?

Per Bay, it has nothing to do with family dynamics, motivation, work ethic, poor choices, entitlement, or crime rates but everything to do with “systemic racism”. He/she/it is also likely a 13 year old because it literally knows everything