The Association Football Thread

#2,877
#2,877
volball625 said:
Zidane's performance against Brazil in the 2006 World Cup was otherworldly. And Messi has performances like that all the time.
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I've seen Messi do some unbelievable things, but I still have a hard time saying I would take him on my team over either Ronaldo or Zidane in their prime.
 
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#2,878
#2,878
tvolsfan said:
How often did you watch Ronaldo in his prime? Just curious.
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I find myself wanting to ask you the same question. The opinion of a 8 year old isn't screaming credibility to me.

I haven't seen a player anywhere near Messi's caliber in the last six years, my time of watching soccer on a consistent basis. I can't say how good Zidane or Ronaldo really were, but I find it hard to believe they were as good as Messi is now. They certainly do not compare statistics wise, and statistics do not do Messi justice. His game is so beyond statistics.
 
#2,880
#2,880
I concede. After reading up and thinking about it, Messi still has some work to do to catch ZZ and Ronaldo.

Club wise, I'd take Messi. But when you throw in the international, ZZ and Ronaldo are heads and shoulders above Mess. Granted, Messi is only 24 and should have at least 2 WC left...

I'd say 1) ZZ, 2) Ronaldo, 3) Messi

Messi will get there though if he can get Argentina to the promise land
 
#2,881
#2,881
I really hope he gets a legitimate chance. He was 18 in his first world cup appearance and his coach didn't play him enough. His play in 2010 was underrated and overshadowed by the fact that his coach was a recovering coke addict who didn't bother to bring a legitimate defense to South Africa. His next shot will be his best chance to have success. He'll be 27 and the tournament is in South America. Whether it's fair or not, that one month span will have a major impact on the 'greatest player of all time' debates.
 
#2,882
#2,882
He is not the same player without the Barcelona team... Therefore, not the best player ever.

I love goal scorers, but to me the best player ever would have to be a midfielder. There complete control of the game dictates the entire flow. One player in the midfield can control the course of an entire game on both ends, and to me Zidane HAS to be the best. He not only controlled the game, but scored the goals as well.
 
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#2,883
#2,883
milohimself said:
Looked up KC's schedule, because I want to see when they play NYRB. Would be one of those unstoppable force meets immovable object type situations (NY has scored 16 goals through 6 games, KC has allowed 1 through the same).

They don't play until August. :angry:
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Howsabout this?....RSL and KC don't play again. So stupid.

The supporter's shield would mean more if everybody had equal schedules. They shouldn't even have conferences, just play everybody twice, and the top 8 teams in the table get in.
 
#2,884
#2,884
Looked up KC's schedule, because I want to see when they play NYRB. Would be one of those unstoppable force meets immovable object type situations (NY has scored 16 goals through 6 games, KC has allowed 1 through the same).<br />
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<b>They don't play until August. :angry:</b>
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Howsabout this?....RSL and KC don't play again. So stupid.<br />
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The supporter's shield would mean more if everybody had equal schedules. They shouldn't even have conferences, just play everybody twice, and the top 8 teams in the table get in.
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Or just play everyone twice and let that be that. Hmmmm...
 
#2,887
#2,887
n_huffhines said:
The supporter's shield would mean more if everybody had equal schedules. They shouldn't even have conferences, just play everybody twice, and the top 8 teams in the table get in.
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Not even that. BPL has my favorite season structure of any team sport in the world.

Everybody plays everybody else x number of time, team with the most points at the end of that wins.

Apply that to MLS, give the top three teams on the table spot in CONCACAF, and the winner of the US Open.
 
#2,888
#2,888
TylerD said:
He is not the same player without the Barcelona team... Therefore, not the best player ever.

I love goal scorers, but to me the best player ever would have to be a midfielder. There complete control of the game dictates the entire flow. One player in the midfield can control the course of an entire game on both ends, and to me Zidane HAS to be the best. He not only controlled the game, but scored the goals as well.
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Completely false. I swear people make complete judgements on the scoreboard and don't actually watch the game. I watched all Argentina World Cup and Copa AMerica games. He was the only player doing anything for his team. He was the spark to any attacking move. He doesn't score the goals for Argentina because he doesn't have to. He has Higuain, Tevez, Aguero and the like who can finish. No one on Barcelona can finish.

And when did Zidane score so many goals?
 
#2,890
#2,890
volball625 said:
Completely false. I swear people make complete judgements on the scoreboard and don't actually watch the game. I watched all Argentina World Cup and Copa AMerica games. He was the only player doing anything for his team. He was the spark to any attacking move. He doesn't score the goals for Argentina because he doesn't have to. He has Higuain, Tevez, Aguero and the like who can finish. No one on Barcelona can finish.
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He gets too much criticism for his play in international competitions, but you have to admit there is an enormous difference in his productivity when he isn't playing in a midfield that simply won't let the other team have the ball.
 
#2,891
#2,891
volball625 said:
Completely false. I swear people make complete judgements on the scoreboard and don't actually watch the game. I watched all Argentina World Cup and Copa AMerica games. He was the only player doing anything for his team. He was the spark to any attacking move. He doesn't score the goals for Argentina because he doesn't have to. He has Higuain, Tevez, Aguero and the like who can finish. No one on Barcelona can finish.

And when did Zidane score so many goals?
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If he doesn't HAVE to score then why do Argentina fail to win anything? You contradict yourself by saying he has to do everything, yet doesn't have to. I am sure some people do make judgements based on his goalscoring, but your argument for being the best ever earlier was the amount of goals he scores.. How can you make that argument and then come back and act like it doesn't matter? He does play a CF role so using that, "He's not even a striker" thing is just silly. Saying he isn't a forward is the same as saying that about Rooney.

He scored a lot of goals for a midfielder, and if you say he didn't you haven't watched him play.
 
#2,892
#2,892
TylerD said:
If he doesn't HAVE to score then why do Argentina fail to win anything? You contradict yourself by saying he has to do everything, yet doesn't have to. I am sure some people do make judgements based on his goalscoring, but your argument for being the best ever earlier was the amount of goals he scores.. How can you make that argument and then come back and act like it doesn't matter? He does play a CF role so using that, "He's not even a striker" thing is just silly. Saying he isn't a forward is the same as saying that about Rooney.

He scored a lot of goals for a midfielder, and if you say he didn't you haven't watched him play.
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He's basically the genesis of all the goals. You don't give him credit because he has a good midfield supplying him all these good balls in the final third (which is debatable how much he truly gets supplied), but when he's the one supplying the final ball, he also doesn't get any credit. Atleast your consistent.
 
#2,893
#2,893
volball625 said:
He's basically the genesis of all the goals. You don't give him credit because he has a good midfield supplying him all these good balls in the final third (which is debatable how much he truly gets supplied), but when he's the one supplying the final ball, he also doesn't get any credit. Atleast your consistent.
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What I am saying is that even with the incredible talent that you listed earlier that Argentina have available they still cannot win... If you give Messi the credit for driving the team I would say it's not working.

THAT is my argument. I have watched him play for Argentina and he plays in the same role. You can label it as whatever you want, because you will, but his inability to win with Argentina separates him from the "greatest ever".

I guess I should make my case for RVP being the greatest goal scorer in the game right now as well. Since it seems to be homer day.
 
#2,894
#2,894
TylerD said:
What I am saying is that even with the incredible talent that you listed earlier that Argentina have available they still cannot win... If you give Messi the credit for driving the team I would say it's not working.

THAT is my argument. I have watched him play for Argentina and he plays in the same role. You can label it as whatever you want, because you will, but his inability to win with Argentina separates him from the "greatest ever".

I guess I should make my case for RVP being the greatest goal scorer in the game right now as well. Since it seems to be homer day.
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Lol at RVP homer day comment.


Btw, looks like Gomez just sealed a W for bayern as I write this. Would much rather see a bayern-barca final.
 
#2,895
#2,895
Wtf is Marcelo's problem. He is the most retarded footballer in Europe. Deserved a red, he's such a piece of **** and all he does is try to hurt players when his team is losing. Reminds me of his ridiculous challenge on Cesc that almost caused a full on brawl.

No class, but what else can you expect from Madrid when theyre losing.
 
#2,896
#2,896
volball625 said:
Completely false. I swear people make complete judgements on the scoreboard and don't actually watch the game. I watched all Argentina World Cup and Copa AMerica games. He was the only player doing anything for his team. He was the spark to any attacking move. He doesn't score the goals for Argentina because he doesn't have to. He has Higuain, Tevez, Aguero and the like who can finish. No one on Barcelona can finish.

And when did Zidane score so many goals?
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So he was the only player doing Anything but not scoring? Your answer is confusing.
 
#2,897
#2,897
Happy with the win. Unfortunately some players will be out of the next leg with Madrid due to too many yellows. A ref from Madrid threw down a bunch of yellows in the first leg against Marseille. Coincidence, I think not.

It's going to be tough to win at Madrid.
 
#2,898
#2,898
TylerD said:
What I am saying is that even with the incredible talent that you listed earlier that Argentina have available they still cannot win... If you give Messi the credit for driving the team I would say it's not working.

THAT is my argument. I have watched him play for Argentina and he plays in the same role. You can label it as whatever you want, because you will, but his inability to win with Argentina separates him from the "greatest ever".

I guess I should make my case for RVP being the greatest goal scorer in the game right now as well. Since it seems to be homer day.
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To be fair, Argentina had their share of issues at the last world cup. It was obvious that Argentina would be in trouble the moment a team stopped focusing on Messi and the other attackers and went straight at Argentina's weak defense. It was only a matter of time until they got run out of the tournament. Germany was their first opponent to realize this, so they destroyed them.

I do agree that he's not the same when he's not playing for Barcelona and that he hasn't proven to be the best ever.
 
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#2,900
#2,900
TylerD said:
What I am saying is that even with the incredible talent that you listed earlier that Argentina have available they still cannot win... If you give Messi the credit for driving the team I would say it's not working.

THAT is my argument. I have watched him play for Argentina and he plays in the same role. You can label it as whatever you want, because you will, but his inability to win with Argentina separates him from the "greatest ever".

I guess I should make my case for RVP being the greatest goal scorer in the game right now as well. Since it seems to be homer day.
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How am I being a homer? You are in the minority if you think he is not one of the top 5 players of all time.

And to be fair, he isn't in the same role. He has to come back to get the ball so much when playing for Argentina. Javier Mascherano and Cambiasso aren't the great midfielders at supplying the attackers.
 
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