The cancel culture is getting out of control

[ClearwaterVol]

You're intentionally missing the point. It's an odd, but common left wing talking point. "2 parents aren't better because we reproduce with crazy people". It's clear that 2 parents are better than one. If that's not true in your face, make better decisions with who you reproduce with in the future. That doesn't take away from the overall point that 2 are better.

You are making a blanket statement. In situations of divorce two can be worse than one. Staying together for the kids is usually a bad idea.

And not really sure why you're making this as a political issue.

 

[Rickyvol77]

It's not BS at all. I did not say that you in particular use private school to avoid minorities. But many parents do exactly that and there's no denying it. Many other parents choose private schools for better education, athletic opportunities etc. and that's fine.
You missed the question: Should vouchers come with a no discrimination condition?

No they shouldn’t but there is denying it because I’ve never seen or heard of a parent saying that or even appearing that way. And there are Minorities at the private schools too

 

[KB5252]

I am a parent. We need to make more opportunity for all not saying that it is acceptable to leave millions further behind.

I believe in the separation of church and state. I do not believe the government should be in the business of funding religion.

I don't disagree here but the government is involved in a lot of stuff it should not be.

 

[Vol8188]

Why should they be entitled to remove money from the public school system which they did not contribute? Further, why should people who do not need the money remove the funding from the public school system?

Only the money that would’ve been allocated to their child. Who says they did not contribute? I’ve never made such a claim.

 

[KB5252]

If you want your kids in private schools, send them.

I am going to use the conservatives argument regarding poor people in general. If you cannot send your kids to private school it is nobody's fault but your own. Make better choices. Get a better job. If sending your kids to private school requires it, get a second job or a third job. Get rid of that cell phone, cable. Buy clothes at the local thrift store. etc etc etc.

You would be surprised at the number of families who do this already. I am a product of a k-6 private education from a family who couldn't afford it but did without to make it work.


Until I was old enough to understand what my parents were doing and why..... Then I asked to go public.

 

[Vol8188]

No, the few poor who would take advantage would fall into the parental involvement or athletic ability segregation.
The majority of vouchers would go to parents already sending their kids to private school (which would put money in their pockets by taking it out of the funds available for public schools).
The rest would be used by parents who are already comparatively well off, but just needed that little bit of additional incentive.

My apologizes for claiming you didn’t address this. I missed this post.

Yes, poor kids with high athletic ability or involved parents would benefit the most but that’s true of any system.

Obviously the majority would not go to those already sending their kids to private schools, otherwise you wouldn’t fear it so much. You fear it because you realize a large portion of kids will leave. But we could take much of that concern off the table just by capping the benefits based on income (not my preferred method but a compromise I would willingly make for the sake of middle and lower class students).

The real impact of vouchers would be for the middle and lower classes. It would open additional opportunities for them.

 

[ClearwaterVol]

Only the money that would’ve been allocated to their child. Who says they did not contribute? I’ve never made such a claim.

Why should they remove more money from the system than they contribute? I am assuming since private schooling is cost prohibitive for the family they are not contributing as much in the way of taxes to the public schools as others. I would imagine that most of the funding for public schools comes from people that don't have kids in the system. So, why should I fund a private school education for your child?

Furthermore, there is no money allocated on a per child basis. There is simply an amount spent per child and as I said before there are fixed costs that are incurred and should not be available for voucher in any circumstance.

 

[ClearwaterVol]

You would be surprised at the number of families who do this already. I am a product of a k-6 private education from a family who couldn't afford it but did without to make it work.


Until I was old enough to understand what my parents were doing and why..... Then I asked to go public.

I wouldn't be surprised, but I have mad respect for those that make such sacrifices.

 

[Vol8188]

lol.......vouchers for all in no way improves the education students will receive. It undeniably does just the opposite.

Do you intend on backing that claim up? I can find plenty of studies showing the opposite

 

[ClearwaterVol]

Do you intend on backing that claim up? I can find plenty of studies showing the opposite

It may improve the education of the students who leave the system, but there really isn't room for debate that it is going to decrease the education of the students left behind.

 

[luthervol]

My apologizes for claiming you didn’t address this. I missed this post.

Yes, poor kids with high athletic ability or involved parents would benefit the most but that’s true of any system.

Obviously the majority would not go to those already sending their kids to private schools, otherwise you wouldn’t fear it so much. You fear it because you realize a large portion of kids will leave. But we could take much of that concern off the table just by capping the benefits based on income (not my preferred method but a compromise I would willingly make for the sake of middle and lower class students).

The real impact of vouchers would be for the middle and lower classes. It would open additional opportunities for them.

Apology accepted. There are many times when I have missed a post that I am assumed to have read.

I think we are just going to disagree.
Sure the majority of the vouchers would go to kids already in private school, unless the number of kids attending private school more than doubled.....which logistically would be impossible.
It would allow private schools (many of which already turn away applicants) to be even more exclusive in their selections.
If the goal is to help as many as possible, then no vouchers or vouchers to the most in need are the only ways to go.

 

[Vol8188]

You are making a blanket statement. In situations of divorce two can be worse than one. Staying together for the kids is usually a bad idea.

And not really sure why you're making this as a political issue.

In the majority of situations (the data agrees strongly) 2 parents are better than 1. You banging crazy people doesn’t change that.

I didn’t make it a political issue. The left did generations ago. Between the sexual revolution and welfare they created a generation of 1 parent households

 

[KB5252]

I wouldn't be surprised, but I have mad respect for those that make such sacrifices.

I could not let my mother and father do it. When it became clear to me what they were doing i felt horrible, guilty. It was a great education and when I left my education suffered but it was the right choice. Too much stress for them.

 

[Vol8188]

It may improve the education of the students who leave the system, but there really isn't room for debate that it is going to decrease the education of the students left behind.

There’s a % of students (idk what that is, but we would all agree they exist) who nothing will improve their education. But this will give the students who care a path away from those students.

The problems at schools like AE aren’t the majority of students but the 10% or so who have no interest in learning and create a poor environment for the other 90%.

If this means those 90% have an opportunity to leave, good

 

[luthervol]

Do you intend on backing that claim up? I can find plenty of studies showing the opposite

You can find a study showing that vouchers have an overall positive impact on the education of the total group of students attending schools in the area where vouchers are used?
I'd love to see it.

 

[KB5252]

It may improve the education of the students who leave the system, but there really isn't room for debate that it is going to decrease the education of the students left behind.

What I would love is if these school districts took up the same frameworks and structure that make private schools so successful.

 

[Vol8188]

Apology accepted. There are many times when I have missed a post that I am assumed to have read.

I think we are just going to disagree.
Sure the majority of the vouchers would go to kids already in private school, unless the number of kids attending private school more than doubled.....which logistically would be impossible.
It would allow private schools (many of which already turn away applicants) to be even more exclusive in their selections.
If the goal is to help as many as possible, then no vouchers or vouchers to the most in need are the only ways to go.

I think you’re assuming it logistically impossible because you’re assuming no expansion of the private sector.

And we have common ground on the last statement. I would be willing to compromise on vouchers for any rather than none

 

[Vol8188]

You can find a study showing that vouchers have an overall positive impact on the education of the total group of students attending schools in the area where vouchers are used?
I'd love to see it.

Total group or that the kids receiving vouchers outperform the kids in the public schools? That’s my claim. No system will work for 100% of students but voucher systems get kids in better environments and produce better outcomes

 

[Rickyvol77]

I've always thought that the best way to introduce vouchers is to give them to the public schools and allow the public schools to give them out to the students they are having the hardest time reaching.
Win - win.
The students getting the least out of public schools will be able to attend private schools.
Private schools will be given the chance to help those most in need.

Lol problem is the worst of public schools will always be the worst. Because you can’t teach character or fix broken or evil kids

 

[Rickyvol77]

lol..you can't be serious

No they should be removed from the normal kids who actually are there to learn. And not be disruptive, bullying, doing drugs and violence, etc. Those kids are the reason public schools fail and it’s their fault and their “parents” and the teachers as well

 

[Vol8188]

Lol problem is the worst of public schools will always be the worst. Because you can’t teach character or fix broken or evil kids

No matter how much money you throw at it. That’s why I don’t understand his objection to online alternative schools.

Most places cap the number of kids you can send to an alternative school. So you still have x number of kids being insane, daily, and interrupting learning but nothing is done because they lack space at the alternative school.

Save money, eliminate your private school, have those kids learn online.

 

[ClearwaterVol]

There’s a % of students (idk what that is, but we would all agree they exist) who nothing will improve their education. But this will give the students who care a path away from those students.

The problems at schools like AE aren’t the majority of students but the 10% or so who have no interest in learning and create a poor environment for the other 90%.

If this means those 90% have an opportunity to leave, good

But your plan will not allow the 90% to leave behind the 10%. It will have maybe 30% leave and leave behind a much higher percentage of the ones not interested in learning v. those that are interested. And for what its worth I think that your number is too high and is simply throwing away children which I find repugnant.

 

[Rickyvol77]

You left out bootstraps. Gotta have bootstraps.

Or emotional intelligence more than a turnip

 

[Rickyvol77]

That's good to know. I don't really care where people choose to live as long as they get equal opportunities.

Lol fantasyland? No one will ever get equity or true “equal” opportunities ever in any society

 

[Vol8188]

Again, you are comparing married people with a healthy relationship to those without. Me banging crazy people not withstanding, you are behaving like an arrogant prick to even attempt to classify someone you don't know that way.

It may surprise you to know that red states tend to have higher divorce rates than blue. So stop being a smug ignorant and a wanna be drain on the system prick.

Classifying you in what way? As banging crazy people? You stated in your situation the second parent wouldn’t have helped. For the kid to better off without the mother, there has to be serious issues involved. I’m not attempting to be an arrogant prick, we’ve probably all had close calls with crazy women. But we are also way to quick to excuse the “single mother of 3” in our society. Everyone’s actions have consequences.

That’s because red states are overwhelmingly black. The leaders in non martial births for example are MS and Louisiana. Also two of the poorest states.