The Devrin Young experiment at KR

#101
#101
Relating Young to the former runners is unfair. Numbers may be similar, but the former returners had fewer opportunities for touchbacks. Since the kick came from the 30, they were generally returning from the cusp of the endzone. Based on this, they had fewer chances at CHOOSING when they were safest to return and instead had to return just about every time. With DY, he has the ability to catch the ball, then look at how the running lanes are set up, THEN decide to run. He can gauge what he can get out of a return and decide to kneel. The former guys had to go no matter what.

Also take into account that with these changes, the kick team can only run 5 yards before the kick, so they're coming in slower. Devrin's number should be much higher than 23.

By this logic, Devrin gets 23 yards per return by picking and choosing his spots, whereas the former returners were getting the same average yardage returning almost all of them. Giving the old returners the ability to only return the most opportune kicks drastically raises their per-return numbers.

The second angle to take is that Devrin is averaging less than a touchback. No elite returner should average less than a touchback. The others all averaged more than a touchback.

tl;dr
Devrin's numbers don't tell the entire story, thanks to changes in rules. He's not good. He should have never gotten a scholarship. He only got a scholarship because everyone was crapping their pants over us not giving one to Randall Cobb.
 
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#102
#102
hndog609 said:
Totally agree to the boldened. So...where is this place that we've got a bunch of Gault's, Scott's and CP's lying around?
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I'm not suggesting that we do. I'm only saying that DY was not, and is not a dynamic playmaker. I don't think he is the absolute best option returning kicks from a talent perspective, and if he is, we're in bad shape.

I'm not saying DY is awful, but he is just average.

My theory is that the coaches have a level of trust in DY (being a SR), and if he is lost to injury on a return, we aren't really hurting from a depth standpoint at any position from his loss.

I hate to say it like that, but he is an expendable commodity in that sense.
 
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#103
#103
cncchris33 said:
My theory is that the coaches have a level of trust in DY (being a SR), and if he is lost to injury on a return, we aren't really hurting from a depth standpoint at any position from his loss.
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I'd find it easier to put more stock in this theory if this same staff didn't have Cam Sutton returning punts.
 
#104
#104
crusse10 said:
tl;dr
Devrin's numbers don't tell the entire story, thanks to changes in rules. He's not good. He should have never gotten a scholarship. He only got a scholarship because everyone was crapping their pants over us not giving one to Randall Cobb.
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Imagine if Devrin went to Kentucky/Vanderbilt and got good returns on us. We'd be griping on how we didn't even look at him. Ridiculous statement
 
#105
#105
iKrager said:
Imagine if Devrin went to Kentucky/Vanderbilt and got good returns on us. We'd be griping on how we didn't even look at him. Ridiculous statement
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But instead, he's here and performing like a low 3* is expected. The only people who are calling him a bust are people who originally thought he was a world-beater because they went to his Bearden games.
 
#106
#106
hndog609 said:
I'd find it easier to put more stock in this theory if this same staff didn't have Cam Sutton returning punts.
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Good point, but then I guess the opposite side of that coin is why is DY not returning punts? If he is the dynamic threat some would have us to believe, if he is the most trusted to catch the ball, then why is HE not back there on punt returns?
 
#107
#107
crusse10 said:
Relating Young to the former runners is unfair. Numbers may be similar, but the former returners had fewer opportunities for touchbacks. Since the kick came from the 30, they were generally returning from the cusp of the endzone. Based on this, they had fewer chances at CHOOSING when they were safest to return and instead had to return just about every time. With DY, he has the ability to catch the ball, then look at how the running lanes are set up, THEN decide to run. He can gauge what he can get out of a return and decide to kneel. The former guys had to go no matter what.

Also take into account that with these changes, the kick team can only run 5 yards before the kick, so they're coming in slower. Devrin's number should be much higher than 23.

By this logic, Devrin gets 23 yards per return by picking and choosing his spots, whereas the former returners were getting the same average yardage returning almost all of them. You give the old returners the ability to only return the most opportune kicks drastically raises their per-return numbers.

The second angle to take is that Devrin is averaging less than a touchback. No elite returner should average less than a touchback. The others all averaged more than a touchback.

tl;dr
Devrin's numbers don't tell the entire story, thanks to changes in rules. He's not good. He should have never gotten a scholarship. He only got a scholarship because everyone was crapping their pants over us not giving one to Randall Cobb.
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This is what gets my blood boiling the most. My rule of thumb on a kick return has always been, "if you bring it out the endzone you better get to the 20. If not it you should have taken a knee." Otherwise, it is a tackle for a loss. This was when the touchback was to the 20. Now the touchback is to the 25 and he can't make it to the 20... That is ridiculous. You expect mental mistakes from freshman being over excited. Not from players with his experience level.
 
#108
#108
cncchris33 said:
Good point, but then I guess the opposite side of that coin is why is DY not returning punts? If he is the dynamic threat some would have us to believe, if he is the most trusted to catch the ball, then why is HE not back there on punt returns?
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Maybe the staff feels he had/has a better chance at fielding Kickoffs rather than punts. I'm not sure, maybe Butch will talk about it during VolCalls.
 
#109
#109
crusse10 said:
Relating Young to the former runners is unfair. Numbers may be similar, but the former returners had fewer opportunities for touchbacks. Since the kick came from the 30, they were generally returning from the cusp of the endzone. Based on this, they had fewer chances at CHOOSING when they were safest to return and instead had to return just about every time. With DY, he has the ability to catch the ball, then look at how the running lanes are set up, THEN decide to run. He can gauge what he can get out of a return and decide to kneel. The former guys had to go no matter what.

Also take into account that with these changes, the kick team can only run 5 yards before the kick, so they're coming in slower. Devrin's number should be much higher than 23.

By this logic, Devrin gets 23 yards per return by picking and choosing his spots, whereas the former returners were getting the same average yardage returning almost all of them. Giving the old returners the ability to only return the most opportune kicks drastically raises their per-return numbers.

The second angle to take is that Devrin is averaging less than a touchback. No elite returner should average less than a touchback. The others all averaged more than a touchback.

tl;dr
Devrin's numbers don't tell the entire story, thanks to changes in rules. He's not good. He should have never gotten a scholarship. He only got a scholarship because everyone was crapping their pants over us not giving one to Randall Cobb.
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There may be some good points in there but last year DY had 19 returns for 493 yards. That's a 25.95 per return average. I think you'll find that number compares most favorably to other current returners.
 
#110
#110
hndog609 said:
There may be some good points in there but last year DY had 19 returns for 493 yards. That's a 25.95 per return average. I think you'll find that number compares most favorably to other current returners.
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he only had 7 returns that went over 25 yards
 
#112
#112
He's not fast, he has no knack for finding a hole, he can't make anyone miss or break any tackles, and he typically decides to take the ball out from deep in the end zone when he shouldn't. He also has a tendency to fumble. What am I missing here? Yeah, let's switch it up. 3 years of seeing this is enough.
 
#113
#113
crusse10 said:
he only had 7 returns that went over 25 yards
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All I claimed is 25.95 per return compares very favorably with just about anybody in the SEC last year. That's either a fact or it isn't. If he was as bad as some people here claim, how would that be possible?
 
#114
#114
hndog609 said:
All I claimed is 25.95 per return compares very favorably with just about anybody in the SEC last year. That's either a fact or it isn't. If he was as bad as some people here claim, how would that be possible?
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You don't need stats to know that
Devrin Young is a below average KR. He stumbles and fumbles his way to the 19.
 
#115
#115
I am sure the coaches evaluated the players and put him there for a reason. It may be no more than decision making and ball security.
 
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#116
#116
Nationdom said:
You don't need stats to know that
Devrin Young is a below average KR. He stumbles and fumbles his way to the 19.
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If he was that below average I would expect his comparative statistics to validate that as a fact. Or even more obviously never have won, much less kept (aside from CP's year) the job.
 
#117
#117
PrattvilleVol said:
Has not worked in 3 years. Has he ever made it to the 20 yd. line much less crossed it? TKJ, Wharton, Ev. Berry, Gaulden...we have a ton of options and need to use them now.
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Kick Return Yards for Devrin Young. He now has with 1,406 kick return yards, which leaves him 382 away from Leonard Scott (1,788) for second and just 448 yards from Willie Gault's all-time record of 1,854.

What's that you say?

:good!:
 
#118
#118
Nationdom said:
You don't need stats to know that
Devrin Young is a below average KR. He stumbles and fumbles his way to the 19.
Click to expand...

Kick Return Yards for Devrin Young. He now has with 1,406 kick return yards, which leaves him 382 away from Leonard Scott (1,788) for second and just 448 yards from Willie Gault's all-time record of 1,854.


:clapping:
 
#121
#121
hndog609 said:
If he was that below average I would expect his comparative statistics to validate that as a fact. Or even more obviously never have won, much less kept (aside from CP's year) the job.
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I think most people's issue with DY lies in this indisputable fact: taking a knee 5-7 yds deep in your endzone nets you 25 yds without the risk of ball security. He would have to average 30-32 yds/return to get the same result instead of the 23.38 he currently averages.

If he were a threat to house one every time he touched it, people would be more lenient, but he just isn't that threat. He runs until first contact and goes down. Most often, that is at or behind our own 20 yd line when taking a knee would have put the ball at our own 25 without the risk of a fumble.
 
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#122
#122
voldawgforever said:
Kick Return Yards for Devrin Young. He now has with 1,406 kick return yards, which leaves him 382 away from Leonard Scott (1,788) for second and just 448 yards from Willie Gault's all-time record of 1,854.

What's that you say?

:good!:
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He's been returning kicks almost every game for 3+ years. Of course he is going to have a lot of return yards at this point. That doesn't make him any less useless on kick returns.

Look at his career average. It's 23 yards a kick return, with 0 TDs. And it's even lower thus far in 2014, and he currently ranks 73rd in the FBS. That isn't impressive. He's worse than a touchback.
 
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#123
#123
cncchris33 said:
I think most people's issue with DY lies in this indisputable fact: taking a knee 5-7 yds deep in your endzone nets you 25 yds without the risk of ball security. He would have to average 30-32 yds/return to get the same result instead of the 23.38 he currently averages.

If he were a threat to house one every time he touched it, people would be more lenient, but he just isn't that threat. He runs until first contact and goes down. Most often, that is at or behind our own 20 yd line when taking a knee would have put the ball at our own 25 without the risk of a fumble.
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Now THIS makes some worthy points. In fact, unless you've got a genuine stud back there (and I mean CP/Hester/Gurley/etc level player) it's probably not worth it to ever try bringing it out of the endzone unless it's a line drive kick.
 
#125
#125
cncchris33 said:
I think most people's issue with DY lies in this indisputable fact: taking a knee 5-7 yds deep in your endzone nets you 25 yds without the risk of ball security. He would have to average 30-32 yds/return to get the same result instead of the 23.38 he currently averages.

If he were a threat to house one every time he touched it, people would be more lenient, but he just isn't that threat. He runs until first contact and goes down. Most often, that is at or behind our own 20 yd line when taking a knee would have put the ball at our own 25 without the risk of a fumble.
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Precisely. He always goes down at first contact, and often times before anyone even gets to him. I have lost count how many times I've seen him just dive to the ground on a kick return like someone screamed "hit the decks!" There is 0 chance he is going to break one, and more often than not he's not even going to get past the first man. We have too many athletes now to keep putting DY back there. He was a product of the Dooley years. Let's move past that.
 
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