The Great Labor Force Debate

[hog88]

So, why in 30 years are exec wages up 1000% and worker bees up 18%. The pie has gotten larger and those in charge are taking a bigger chunk and telling those at the bottom they aren't worth anymore money.

It is not artificially inflating wages its a correction.

You, me and everyone else with a 401k, IRA or investment account is to blame.

 

[ClearwaterVol]

You, me and everyone else with a 401k, IRA or investment account is to blame.

The problem is that we could have been seeing similar returns without screwing the little guy.

 

[hog88]

The problem is that we could have been seeing similar returns without screwing the little guy.

The little guy isn't getting screwed. He wouldn't be making anymore money regardless what the CEO is making.

Edit: The way the little guy gets screwed in being laid off/fired because of short term thinking. Way too many publicly traded companies are ran by the quarter and stock price, the "you're only as good as your last quarter" mentality is screwing the little guy.

 

[C-south]

Blame the casual investor and 401ks.

Almost like we would be better off without a stock market.

 

[hog88]

Almost like we would be better off without a stock market.

No we would have been better off had Glass-Steagall not been replaced by Gramm-Leach Bliley.

 

[ClearwaterVol]

The little guy isn't getting screwed. He wouldn't be making anymore money regardless what the CEO is making.

Edit: The way the little guy gets screwed in being laid off/fired because of short term thinking. Way too many publicly traded companies are ran by the quarter and stock price, the "you're only as good as your last quarter" mentality is screwing the little guy.

The little guy, in the beginning, was paid based upon the percentage of profit the owner thought was fair. The pie has gotten larger, but the little guy has reaped the benefits. The execs are taking a bigger chunk of the pie while leaving the worker bees with same cut.

 

[hog88]

The little guy, in the beginning, was paid based upon the percentage of profit the owner thought was fair. The pie has gotten larger, but the little guy has reaped the benefits. The execs are taking a bigger chunk of the pie while leaving the worker bees with same cut.

The pie has just changed. The CEO is making his $$ off the stock price and not necessarily the profit from the widgets.

 

[lukeneyland]

Considering they are out there working and helping putting food on your table, agricultural jobs are skilled jobs.

I swear SOME of you guys really are pathetic and have a lack of respect for other people.

You are hilarious. Not agreeing that all people are talented or skilled isn’t a very profound thought and it’s not Inherently disrespectful either.

 

[lukeneyland]

The little guy, in the beginning, was paid based upon the percentage of profit the owner thought was fair. The pie has gotten larger, but the little guy has reaped the benefits. The execs are taking a bigger chunk of the pie while leaving the worker bees with same cut.

What do you consider the “beginning” to be? I can’t think of a period in human history where what you stated was commonly occurring

 

[GroverCleveland]

How well do you back up a 53’ trailer?

Or blind-side parallel park it?

 

[lukeneyland]

I'm 110% behind you with the sentiment. But unfortunately, when you keep using the term "skill", that rubs them the wrong way. I'm sure that if you went away from that term, however, that they would find some other reason to disagree with you.

The simple fact is that this isn't about "skilled" or "valuable". It is about justifying lower wages and justifying maximum control of employees... even as far as what they can force in their bodies.

Mostly correct. Some of what he is typing reminds me of the “everyone is special, participation trophy mindset”. I don’t object to finding ways to raise the quality of life for everyone. I don’t have some axe to grind with the working class either, hell if I don’t play my own cards right I might end up worse than picking grapes

 

[hog88]

Or blind-side parallel park it?

The parallel parking part of the backing test is stupid.

 

[lukeneyland]

why the wage envy? Also what kind of people numbers are we talking when making the comparison? Easily misconstrued based on the sample size

A "correction" would still hurt everyone. You can't artificially correct wages without affecting everyone's bottom line

I agree.The problem isn’t wages. It’s the destruction of the buying power of those wages. Wage corrections cause inflation and no one gets screwed as hard by inflation as the poor and unpropertied

 

[McDad]

The problem is that we could have been seeing similar returns without screwing the little guy.

You've done the math on a large corporation, right.

Once the millions "given" to the CEO are dispersed to the employees, the ave increase to their payroll per week is paltry.

 

[ClearwaterVol]

You've done the math on a large corporation, right.

Once the millions "given" to the CEO are dispersed to the employees, the ave increase to their payroll per week is paltry.

Yes, the argument I love. The old you wouldn't care about that raise argument. The across the board increases for executives at the expense of the workers would be significant.

 

[hog88]

Yes, the argument I love. The old you wouldn't care about that raise argument. The across the board increases for executives at the expense of the workers would be significant.

Why do you say the executive raises are at the expense of the workers? Anything tangible to back this up?

 

[NCFisher]

Blame the casual investor and 401ks.

I'm glad someone said it before me.
Add government to that list for creating a nearly captive audience for industry and investor classes with 401K and IRAs. "No, you can invest in Green Shellgame Corp but not your own excellent business that you control."

 

[ClearwaterVol]

Why do you say the executive raises are at the expense of the workers? Anything tangible to back this up?

Yes, their pay has gone up 10 fold while the workers has remained stagnant.

 

[NCFisher]

Surely, I can say good things came out of a bad situation. The American worker finding out they are more powerful than they realized is one. On a personal note, I got to spend lots of time with my fiance before she passed (unexpectedly) during lockdown. So, yeah good can be found in bad situations.

Sincere empathy for your loss; that's a tough one and may memory smiles frequent you more than dispiriting absence til someone warms your life again.

 

[hog88]

Yes, their pay has gone up 10 fold while the workers has remained stagnant.

Much of the executive "pay" includes stock options and performance bonuses.

 

[hog88]

I'm glad someone said it before me.
Add government to that list for creating a nearly captive audience for industry and investor classes with 401K and IRAs. "No, you can invest in Green Shellgame Corp but not your own excellent business that you control."

Very true. We can all invest tax differed in other people's businesses but not our own.

 

[McDad]

Yes, the argument I love. The old you wouldn't care about that raise argument. The across the board increases for executives at the expense of the workers would be significant.

You haven't done the math, I see.

It is quite easy to Google CEO compensation for company X and Google total workforce. Basic arithmetic from there on.

 

[ClearwaterVol]

Much of the executive "pay" includes stock options and performance bonuses.

So the workers would hate to get those bonuses.

 

[hog88]

So the workers would hate to get those bonuses.

I'm sure they would love to get them, they should apply for the eligible positions.

 

[McDad]

I'm sure they would love to get them, they should apply for the eligible positions.

Either Lowes or Home depot gives wage earners an opportunity to recieve stock (or purchase at a discount). Went to church with a family who made out quite well with it.